Player Agency & Wasted time at the Interstellar initiative

Guess it doesn't work because I don't have a manifest scanner with me. I am just with hatch-breakers and wake-scanner. I hope I'll find some equipment nearby. And now I stop further derailing. Thanks for being helpfull!
The Prospect does sell manifest scanners. I picked one up there earlier.
 
The non-dockable megaships, of which there are a lot, don't have owners. They come under the temporary responsibility of the controlling faction of the system they enter, but are not technically owned by them.
This is almost certainly the way the Zende megaships work. They want to be able to stop any random faction in Zende taking them over and hitching a ride into Synuefe, which I imagine would definitely cause some issues. No reason to create a way for megaships to be tied to factions that hold other assets, when they can just hook it up to the same mechanism as those non-dockables where they fall under the controller's jurisdiction. We'll know for certain come Phase 3, anyway, as the status panel will show what asset of Zende they're defending.

Was Segnen's security/economy also reset?
Yes, which is why I'd expect a similar effect in Zende for all other factions. Otherwise, the security reset was entirely (besides ZP) localised on the CG system - the place in danger of Lockdown.

Why would they do that? This CG doesn't need to pass anyway - if it fails, Segnen can blame Zende for mismanagement of the system and claim that it would be better if they were in charge, then start the war that way. Sure, there then wouldn't be a Guardian Tech Broker at the outpost ... but that's not essential, and they've quite happily left stations with poor services after partly-complete CGs before.

Conversely, if they actually wanted it to pass, no chance of alternatives ... they could have set the tier 1 level much lower in the first place.
All true, but that doesn't mean Frontier see it the same way. That sort of adaptation was largely what I was hoping to see, but it sounds like they had nothing prepared.

Setting low tiers is a common tactic to ensure that CGs pass, but they appear to have forgotten to account for the fact that this isn't a normal CG, or they've VASTLY overestimated the number of people who would be interested in this. Maybe Tier 1 is low, relative to other trade CGs, but when your main method of gathering cargo is relogging in a SRV...yeah. Last I checked, still on one pixel of progress, and most people seem to be leaving after 20-30 tons.

Probably doesn't help that this wasn't explicitly advertised as a CG until after the megaship ferry had left, either.
 
e.g. "I can't gank an entire CG. I'm not getting 'complleing gameplay'"

The entitlement is thick enough to cut with a chainsaw.

I know this is going to come as a shock, but here it is. (and not directed at anyone in particular)

... Other people's time is as valuable as yours is.

If stress testing the BGS at the expense of other players' time is your kink, let your freak flag fly high and proud, I suppose.

But can we please not pretend everyone puts down his/her money for the same thing?

or that this is all somehow doing FDEV a huge favor?

They didn't

and it isn't.

Now burn this post to ashes....!!!

I'm seeing some pretty fundamental differences between you and the OP.

OP was willing to learn about how the BGS works and then invest the time and effort to influence it.

You're happy to do nothing to oppose him and nod your head in approval as all his work gets god-modded away.

Who's entitled?
 
I think it's pretty clear that you only want like-minded people to be able to influence the game.
When it comes to ED, the more someone wants to enforce his will on others, the less influence I want them to have. The fact that these people don't appear to understand why plays a major role in that. :)

FWIW: I don't mind at all in a game such as EvE, where all players acknowledge the inherently competitive nature of the game. What we have here is people trying to start a boxing match with a bunch of tennis players. It doesn't matter how cool you think boxing is, this isn't the setting for it. Of course, some people really don't want to play EvE, or another game where everyone is competitive. Some really just want to punch tennis players and mock them for not fighting back. Well, too bad it dont work like that.
 
This is almost certainly the way the Zende megaships work. They want to be able to stop any random faction in Zende taking them over and hitching a ride into Synuefe, which I imagine would definitely cause some issues. No reason to create a way for megaships to be tied to factions that hold other assets, when they can just hook it up to the same mechanism as those non-dockables where they fall under the controller's jurisdiction. We'll know for certain come Phase 3, anyway, as the status panel will show what asset of Zende they're defending.
Checking, journal data says the megaships are explicitly owned by Zende Partners. And there would be lots of issues with the station interface if they didn't have an actual controlling faction, as well as things like the markets. Remember that the Sadler's Song ferry currently in Zende is also owned by Zende Partners - who are not the controlling faction in Zende - so it's not the same as the non-dockable "system owner" rule.

Phase 3 won't be enough proof on its own - conflicts are always over the controlling asset of the system (almost certainly the outpost) if possible. You'd need Segnen to win the Phase 3 conflict, then start another one after it's over: if it goes for the undockable installation instead, the ferries can't be captured.

(Frontier do have a way to mark certain assets as uncontestable, in a system which allows normal conflicts, for an influence faction, and have used it a few times before. So they could make the ferries uncapturable but owned by Zende - and probably have, for the reasons you give)

Yes, which is why I'd expect a similar effect in Zende for all other factions. Otherwise, the security reset was entirely (besides ZP) localised on the CG system - the place in danger of Lockdown.
Checking back through the journal entries:
- I don't see any sign of this in Zende
- on the other hand, I don't see any sign that either Zende or Segnen's sliders were outside the None zone before Thursday's server reset in the journal entries either. No Pending Lockdown in the journal there.

Do you happen to have a screenshot from before the server reset? (Unlikely, I know, why would you have taken one before you knew you needed it)

Setting low tiers is a common tactic to ensure that CGs pass, but they appear to have forgotten to account for the fact that this isn't a normal CG, or they've VASTLY overestimated the number of people who would be interested in this. Maybe Tier 1 is low, relative to other trade CGs, but when your main method of gathering cargo is relogging in a SRV...yeah. Last I checked, still on one pixel of progress, and most people seem to be leaving after 20-30 tons.
It seems to have taken off a bit since you last checked - now half way up Tier 1, so probably gets there overnight.
 
Are the principles of superior will and self-motivated competition entirely lost on you?
I explicitly said otherwise, and I explained I just do not want it in this game while not minding it in others. But you really have to keep twisting words and pretend you didn't read what I wrote just so you can pretend to win an argument about a computer game with a stranger on the internet. Disappointing, but not surprising. :)

But you know what? It is friday so here ya go: Your will is superior, and you won this self-motivated competition! I'll like your post so you'll even win a whole internet point with it. have a good weekend!
 
When it comes to ED, the more someone wants to enforce his will on others, the less influence I want them to have. The fact that these people don't appear to understand why plays a major role in that. :)

FWIW: I don't mind at all in a game such as EvE, where all players acknowledge the inherently competitive nature of the game. What we have here is people trying to start a boxing match with a bunch of tennis players. It doesn't matter how cool you think boxing is, this isn't the setting for it. Of course, some people really don't want to play EvE, or another game where everyone is competitive. Some really just want to punch tennis players and mock them for not fighting back. Well, too bad it dont work like that.
What Oubs and company attempted here is hardly EvE. In fact, it's very much in line with previous player efforts in Elite: Dangerous. Remember Socho? How that was handled was pretty great.

But hey, why let cool things happen when boring is so en vogue around here these days.
 
Do you happen to have a screenshot from before the server reset? (Unlikely, I know, why would you have taken one before you knew you needed it)
I'd taken screenshots on most days for the purpose of measuring security drops. You didn't see a pending Lockdown as we weren't in the red yet; scheduled to hit it around mid-CG. There was some odd behavior related to this, prior to the shutdown, unsure of it's significance: we entered the yellow for Civil Unrest, the status panel updated to indicate we were indeed in that yellow bit...but no pending Civil Unrest. Wondered if they'd disabled it at the time, but thought it best to give it another tick in case we were just on the cusp and it was a graphical bug. And then this :D

Most of the screenshots were just the security bar, though, but here:

131895

131896
(First day we had time to do anything significant)
131897

131899
(Bit of a faster drop as more people got involved)
And this is directly prior to the reset:
131900

And this is directly after the server shutdown:
131901

(apologies for the low quality on my screenshots)

It seems to have taken off a bit since you last checked - now half way up Tier 1, so probably gets there overnight.
Jesus, really? Last I checked it was on one pixel and at 19,000 tonnes delivered, most commanders delivering an average of 25 tonnes. That's one hell of an increase.

EDIT: I guess they've fixed the tiers. It was one pixel at 10,000 tonnes, one pixel at 19,000 tonnes, and now it's nearly done at 29,000 tonnes. Tier 1 was definitely higher before the tick, so it looks like Frontier do want this to succeed. I guess all that remains is to see what they do about the war that's on it's way. No avoiding that one without modification.
 

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Definitely a reset of the sliders on Zende Partners there - but I don't see anything on there indicating that Segnen Exchange were ever off the middle of neutral, so it doesn't surprise me that the other factions in Zende system haven't had sliders reset either. Whatever this effect was it seems to just be Zende Partners in both systems.
(And that the economy slider also reset again to me says "bug" rather than "intentional" - Frontier have demonstrated the capability to just move one slider with the starport bomb plot)

Looking at the colour balance on that "just before" shot, you may have been slightly further away from Civil Unrest than you thought, too - there's the weird hatching effect (clearer on Zende Partner's economy slider) that no-one is entirely sure what it means but isn't the same as "pending". Best theory I've seen is it's a buffer zone to stop states close to a line from oscillating with minimal input, and you have to cross that too to actually get the state.

Jesus, really? Last I checked it was on one pixel and at 19,000 tonnes delivered, most commanders delivering an average of 25 tonnes. That's one hell of an increase.
Looking at it more closely, it's now at 813 participants and 28,471 tonnes, so it looks like Frontier may have taken a zero off the targets. That would explain the change.

That, unlike the influence/state weirdness, I think is much more clearly a Frontier dev action. Whether you view it as unjustified interference or just fixing a bug with the targets is a point of view, of course. The CG thread has been full of "why did Frontier set a trade target on a salvage CG" for a while...
 
Looking at the colour balance on that "just before" shot, you may have been slightly further away from Civil Unrest than you thought, too - there's the weird hatching effect (clearer on Zende Partner's economy slider) that no-one is entirely sure what it means but isn't the same as "pending". Best theory I've seen is it's a buffer zone to stop states close to a line from oscillating with minimal input, and you have to cross that too to actually get the state.
view, of course. The CG thread has been full of "why did Frontier set a trade target on a salvage CG" for a while...
As Ian says, you need to move the dot past the hatching to get the state change - the hatching just indicates a target, pending comes after you exceed the end point.

See https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/facts-new-theory-of-hatching.477450/ for examples

Looking at it more closely, it's now at 813 participants and 28,471 tonnes, so it looks like Frontier may have taken a zero off the targets. That would explain the change.

That, unlike the influence/state weirdness, I think is much more clearly a Frontier dev action. Whether you view it as unjustified interference or just fixing a bug with the targets is a point of view, of course. The CG thread has been full of "why did Frontier set a trade target on a salvage CG" for a while...
Hello folks,

We've been looking at the numbers and we're going to adjust the targets of each tier so that they are more achievable.

Thank you for all of your feedback and patience on this one.
 
Why shouldn't it? It's normal gameplay mechanics. Besides, here's your promise, I suppose:
"Be aware that faction-state changes and other disruptive events can negatively impact markets and station services, and could prevent the initiative from running smoothly. "
Beat me to it.
 
Why shouldn't it? It's normal gameplay mechanics. Besides, here's your promise, I suppose:
"Be aware that faction-state changes and other disruptive events can negatively impact markets and station services, and could prevent the initiative from running smoothly. "
Yeah this event is having enough issues with player participation already. I can't say I blame FD for making full use of the terms "can" and "could".

Anyway, I'm not sure that resetting the system state at the start of an event is worth this amount of pearl clutching. Just think of it as the umpire resetting the score to zero so the game can start.
 
Sorry, I asked further up but everyone was arguing at the time.

Was OP’s problem (couldn’t create lockdown state) isolated to just the II system, or is it a current galaxy wide issue?

There’s no systems in lockdown anywhere in the galaxy that I can find on EDDB. I found just one station, Wohler Camp/Ither.

When was the last time a player acting alone or in a group was able to create a lockdown anywhere?

I’m just curious and don’t know much about the BGS.
 
Sorry, I asked further up but everyone was arguing at the time.

Was OP’s problem (couldn’t create lockdown state) isolated to just the II system, or is it a current galaxy wide issue?

There’s no systems in lockdown anywhere in the galaxy that I can find on EDDB. I found just one station, Wohler Camp/Ither.

When was the last time a player acting alone or in a group was able to create a lockdown anywhere?

I’m just curious and don’t know much about the BGS.
Since the multi-state update to the BGS (3.3?) there have been issues. With the march update, FD said this:

Hello Commanders,

[...]

Many of you have commented that the investment and Civil Liberty states are easy to achieve and sustain across the galaxy, and that Lockdown and Famine are very rare.
  • We've already made a several changes for how negative actions apply negative economic and security effects, and also how quickly the EP & SP bars drain back towards the centre. We expect to make further tweaks once we've analysed the results of this set of changes.
It is very much possible that the changes have not yet had the result as hoped, and more tweaks are needed.
 
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