Player Agency & Wasted time at the Interstellar initiative

[Ouberos]

Amongst other things I like playing the BGS. Its a complicated beast and you can never make one move without stepping on someones toes. Somedays you are the good guy and some days you are the bad guy.

This week I have mostly been the bad guy. Ive killed a lot of Zende partnership NPC ships. Traders, Sys Auth, Elite Private Couriers (Literally broke my heart to sink those ones and not steal from them)

Im Notoriety 10, hostile to the Zende guys and Ive been dodging ATR and their magic lazors since Tuesday. Had to haul out and repair once when they nuked my shield gen, all the way out to an asteroid base in the Pencil Sector. Killing those faceless proc gen NPC was a grind, got to admit but I stuck at it because I was achieving the goal I set out to do. Security level was dropping like a rock and the day the Interstelllar Initiative went live Lockdown should have been pending.

This pleased me because I have a bit of an issue with the whole Alien / Human tech thing. Also lets face it, I was creating more gameplay than FD had last week. There would have been bounty hunting to do and Pirates to fend off. Services would have closed down just as thousands of players undocked from the Zende bus. Things were about to get interesting. There was a game to be played!

Only it turns out there is no such thing as Player Agency in a universe where players decide the direction of the story. Influences and security levels have been god modded and messed around with. My work is undone. My week wasted. See it turns out Im just one of those proc gen NPC too, and you know what?

This week, so are you.

Enjoy not taking the Initiative Cmdrs.

Im off to raise a ticket and get my bounty scrubbed. Might ask for some credits in compensation too.

07

 

[Unknown Zombie]

So you tried to in the pool, but the "pool guy" came along behind you and scooped it out with his net.



I know you thought it would be funny, but let's give a quick reality check: "player agency" doesn't necessarily mean "anything goes."

In reality, reactionary development would be super great. But let's think about it for a second.. Game development takes a lot of time and effort, and it's hard to get it right. People already think the game develops too slowly and has too many issues as it is. Preemptively developing bits of the game that result from a story they want to tell is a necessity. That means that yes, unfortunately, there are only a few viable outcomes they are prepared to deliver on. Players are already irritated at how slowly the story is already being told, what would happen if development of the weapon, or module, or whatever else we got for this initiative didn't even start until after we had played out the story?

They still have a general direction they want the story to go, and it is in fact their story. Just because the agency they've given us is to decide whether we get missiles or a minigun doesn't mean they've also prepared for an eventuality where nobody got to turn in anything.

 

[Bryan K]

Serves you right for trying to mess things up for folks.

I’m strongly against players being able to steer the direction of the game (because most players are idiots anyway). And, as you’ve demonstrated, there are people out there trying to actively ruin the plans of the majority who should be dealt with exactly as has transpired here.

Working. As. Intended.

 

[Ouberos]

Has it come to this? That they have crushed your desire for gameplay?

Like I say at the start, sometimes I'm the bad guy and sometimes I'm the good guy. You play the BGS long enough and you are always someones bad guy. Thats what player agency means.

 

[Rainbro]

I see what Unknown Zombie is saying, but given the way they were hyping up the Initiatives as a way to "blaze your own trail" and whatnot, we did hope they had prepared for this. They had a full month of time where they could have done all sorts to prepare for or accommodate player opposition, and the lack of bounty hunting in the system seemed like it could have been deliberate to allow for this, given sufficient support. Unfortunately, half of that month was blown on forum votes and just waiting, and the lack of bounty hunting spots seems to have been nothing more than an oversight. It's easy to get frustrated when Frontier have had months to plan this, only to come out with something objectively worse than what we had before.

In any case, if this is truly what the majority wants...you who truly support this, not just those who go along with the CG due to lack of alternative routes... you have your wish.

Enjoy relogging at guardian ruins. I'm sure you'll enjoy that much more than any in-universe attempt to address this by Frontier.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

One man's gameplay is another man's nuisance.

 

[Speedcuffs]

Yeh. A few PvP naughty people turned up today.
Good stuff, excellent.
But then I realised because of how the CG junk is collected, most folk (self included) were gonna be in solo.
Meh.

 

[Vardaugas]

Glad you wasted your time.

 

[Rainbro]

Glad you wasted your time.

Everyone participating in this CG will have wasted their time, not just because because it's a relog-fest, but because the tier requirements are copy-pasted from your average Trade CG, despite the method of gathering Guardian cargo being much, much slower than a commodity market. Tier 1 won't be reached unless Frontier do some more godmodding.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Like I say at the start, sometimes I'm the bad guy and sometimes I'm the good guy. You play the BGS long enough and you are always someones bad guy. Thats what player agency means.

The main problem I see with "player agency" against CGs is, that there is simply no functioning gameplay loops to allow this in a way that is not extremely one sided.
The way lockdown and CGs work is simply not compatible. Without "god modding" the CGs would simply not work, allowing very few players to dictate the gameplay for a lot of players.

One option would be to always implement two opposing CGs or to increase the CG if a lockdown happens or any other method that allows the opposing players to have a somewhat balanced way to achieve their goals.

As is it is now, allowing lockdowns to happen at CG systems is simply a broken gameplay mechanic that should be fixed in someway - until then, god modding is the only way for FDev to deal with that.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

This week I have mostly been....

 

[Ouberos]

Glad you wasted your time.

Ah, the ancient chinese curse of Frontier Developments.

 

[Ouberos]

The main problem I see with "player agency" against CGs is, that there is simply no functioning gameplay loops to allow this in a way that is not extremely one sided.
The way lockdown and CGs work is simply not compatible. Without "god modding" the CGs would simply not work, allowing very few players to dictate the gameplay for a lot of players.

One option would be to always implement two opposing CGs or to increase the CG if a lockdown happens or any other method that allows the opposing players to have a somewhat balanced way to achieve their goals.

As is it is now, allowing lockdowns to happen at CG systems is simply a broken gameplay mechanic that should be fixed in someway - until then, god modding is the only way for FDev to deal with that.

This is correct.

Another way would have been to not give me a week with nothing better to do.

It does highlight perfectly the need to reorganise the way these things are designed and maybe even to let players lead the story. Imagine if the superpowers actually responded to BGS mechanics.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

So you tried to in the pool, but the "pool guy" came along behind you and scooped it out with his net.



I know you thought it would be funny, but let's give a quick reality check: "player agency" doesn't necessarily mean "anything goes."

In reality, reactionary development would be super great. But let's think about it for a second.. Game development takes a lot of time and effort, and it's hard to get it right. People already think the game develops too slowly and has too many issues as it is. Preemptively developing bits of the game that result from a story they want to tell is a necessity. That means that yes, unfortunately, there are only a few viable outcomes they are prepared to deliver on. Players are already irritated at how slowly the story is already being told, what would happen if development of the weapon, or module, or whatever else we got for this initiative didn't even start until after we had played out the story?

They still have a general direction they want the story to go, and it is in fact their story. Just because the agency they've given us is to decide whether we get missiles or a minigun doesn't mean they've also prepared for an eventuality where nobody got to turn in anything.

Serves you right for trying to mess things up for folks.

I’m strongly against players being able to steer the direction of the game (because most players are idiots anyway). And, as you’ve demonstrated, there are people out there trying to actively ruin the plans of the majority who should be dealt with exactly as has transpired here.

Working. As. Intended.

Glad you wasted your time.

Shame on all these posts. Just... absolutely atrocious understanding of the game. Can't really say it any other way.

Sorry you wasted your time, Ouberos.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Am kind of glad I went over earlier in the week and hoovered up a fair few mats for unlocking some more Guardian gear. All in Open and with only the occasional player contact. It was quite relaxing really.

 

[Northpin]

Everyone participating in this CG will have wasted their time, not just because because it's a relog-fest, but because the tier requirements are copy-pasted from your average Trade CG, despite the method of gathering Guardian cargo being much, much slower than a commodity market. Tier 1 won't be reached unless Frontier do some more godmodding.

Tier1 will be reached before the weekend is over.

And they probably learned something from the previous attempts at locking down the systems that are helding a CG.

Edit: and there are more that 300 contributors upto now - it would had been pathetic if a single commander would had managed to ruin it.

 

[Unknown Zombie]

Has it come to this? That they have crushed your desire for gameplay?

Like I say at the start, sometimes I'm the bad guy and sometimes I'm the good guy. You play the BGS long enough and you are always someones bad guy. Thats what player agency means.

I'm not saying what you were trying to do wouldn't have made interesting gameplay if FDev had planned for it.

But given how we are currently in the "new golden age of beginner players" this is obviously something they're doing to ease new players into game mechanics such as how USS works, how the guardian ruins work (which is very much how the rest of the game works for better or for worse), etc.

It's very much just a dog and pony show. They are trying to train new players on how to play the game.

They weren't prepared to drag a bunch of new commanders out in the boonies to introduce them to the guardian story and at the last minute have to say "oops, looks like someone pulled a fast one on us, we don't actually have anything for you to do except introduce you to this fun mechanic called a Lockdown."

 

[Maymo]

Hehe! I actually really like what you tried to pull off OP! That would/should have been a super-gank!

Creating meaningful and creative gameplay for yourself that could have potentially touched 100’s is awesome.

Know that your effort wasn’t in vain. This is the most interesting thread I’ve read regarding the Int Ini so far.

 

[Old Duck]

But then I realised because of how the CG junk is collected, most folk (self included) were gonna be in solo.

That's not fair.... The only reason for CGs is so I have lots people gathered in one place to shoot at, LOL. CGs should be Open-only! There is no "solo" in "community", after all

 

[Unknown Zombie]

Shame on all these posts. Just... absolutely atrocious understanding of the game. Can't really say it any other way.

Sorry you wasted your time, Ouberos.

I think expecting it to have gone any differently is an atrocious misunderstanding of how FDev works.

What makes the story that this one guy wanted to tell any more important than the story FDev wanted to tell? Or that anyone else would have wanted to tell?

I'm not saying I think he did anything wrong, or that it would have been wrong. Just don't be indignant about it, because that makes you look like you felt entitled to tell the story your way.

And anyway the writing really was on the wall as soon as they hyped up piracy as a big way to take part of the initiative, but then placed the factions into that system with a security level that was anything besides Anarchy...