Do no other minor factions have moveable Megaships? I notice the Gnosis is ‘controlled’ by a separate faction.
Thanks for your explanation Ian Doncaster.
Thanks for your explanation Ian Doncaster.
Player Agency & Wasted time at the Interstellar initiative
- Thread starter Ouberos
- Start date
Do they?
The non-dockable megaships, of which there are a lot, don't have owners. They come under the temporary responsibility of the controlling faction of the system they enter, but are not technically owned by them.
There are plenty of dockable megaships with owners, but they don't generally move.
Dockable moving megaships, on the other hand, are extremely rare. The only other examples I can think of are:
- the Gnosis, which is owned by its own faction which doesn't own anything else
- the AEGIS megaships (e.g. the Vanguard) which again are owned by their own faction which doesn't own anything else in the system.
Both of those factions are non-influence factions anyway, so resetting their influence and states to zero on a jump would be undetectable and harmless, maybe even desirable as a cleanup mechanism.
This, so far as I know, is the only case where a moving dockable megaship is owned by a faction which also has normal assets in the system, and is able to hold influence and states.
(Please point out if I've missed some other examples, since I'm interested in that sort of thing)
Was Segnen's security/economy also reset? They had a big influence jump, but that's logical if the only other faction in the system lost all its influence to a bug - the other factions in Zende did also take a influence jump when Zende Partners went to 0% there (it was just a smaller one since Zende didn't have much influence to start with, and there were more factions to spread it between)
As a secondary faction in a system consolidated to the controller, with no local missions, I would expect Segnen's security/economy sliders to be pretty much at neutral whatever happened. (And there is a small "return to neutral" default movement on the sliders, too, to stop Investments lasting forever on minimal input, as they did at 3.3 release)
About the only way to actually prove otherwise would be to push the security slider down on a day when the megaships aren't jumping and see what happens. But if it doesn't go down you'll never be able to tell the difference for certain between Frontier sneaking on some positive security behind the scenes and players having read this thread doing positive security actions.
A strong but not conclusive indication would be if the same influence mess happened next Thursday (Lockdowns can't affect a War CG, and they'll have to manually poke BGS to set up the War anyway, so there'd be no reason at all to do anything at server reset). On the other hand, if that didn't happen it might just mean that they'd fixed the bug, so it wouldn't be evidence the other way.
Why would they do that? This CG doesn't need to pass anyway - if it fails, Segnen can blame Zende for mismanagement of the system and claim that it would be better if they were in charge, then start the war that way. Sure, there then wouldn't be a Guardian Tech Broker at the outpost ... but that's not essential, and they've quite happily left stations with poor services after partly-complete CGs before.
Conversely, if they actually wanted it to pass, no chance of alternatives ... they could have set the tier 1 level much lower in the first place.
So you tried toin the pool, but the "pool guy" came along behind you and scooped it out with his net.
I know you thought it would be funny, but let's give a quick reality check: "player agency" doesn't necessarily mean "anything goes."
This. It is one of the design philosophies behind ED since day one, where every individual can have a small influence on the galaxy (creating the dynamic setting) while preventing where possible that a handful of 'dedicated' people can screw things up for everything else. Some people desperately want to be the protagonist, single-handedly influencing the story for all. It is cool you want to be important, but this is just not the game for it.
This doesnt mean I know or believe FD god-modded anything, but it does mean I don't care either way. Preventing CGs by pre-emptively messing with the BGS is just lame.
This sentence does not make sense to me. Could you expand on it please?
It seems you are suggesting that collaborative gameplay is not achievable in Elite. Have I interpreted your meaning incorrectly or are you just confused and salty you don't have enough friends to attempt something like this?
1) That is not how you talk to people when you want clarification on something.
2) Having read the OP, I am unsure why you think I am the salty one.
Errr, when you make big statements you can't just go "yeah well proof it ain't so!!!!". You make the topic, you claim there is no player agency (which history has shown is already factually false, but dont let that stop the drama) so you get to bring the proof.
1) That is not how you talk to people when you want clarification on something.
2) Having read the OP, I am unsure why you think I am the salty one.
You must be new here.
But seriously, your argument doesn't hold water. Either the actions of a Commander are dynamic upon the galaxy and therefore taken in aggregation will have a greater impact on the galaxy or as you suggest the efforts of a group are not meaningful in any way in which case any individual impact must count for nothing.
So which is it?
Again, your ignorance of the matter being discussed is showing. The evidence is in the thread you are commenting on and in the system BGS.
Go educate yourself, form a cohesive argument and come back with some mates.
Your logical fallacy is black or white
You presented two alternative states as the only possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist.
tinyurl.com
The truth is quite obvious: your actions can have some influence on the galaxy, but you cant have all the influence you are after. That has made your very upset, and resulted in a bunch of posts where you pretend no influence/agency exists because you didn't get the thing you wanted.
I think we're too old for such nonsense, really.
No u.
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Not really sure what position to take in this, but...
it's even stated in the official community goal guide (see here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/community-goal-guide.297632/) that BGS can and may affect CG's.
copy/paste:
ADVERSE EFFECTS OF THE BGS AND PLAYER ACTIONS.
So it seems to me one could savely suppose that working the BGS to sabotage a CG is valid gameplay. And I understand how one can be upset if this gameplay is god-modded away.
it's even stated in the official community goal guide (see here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/community-goal-guide.297632/) that BGS can and may affect CG's.
copy/paste:
ADVERSE EFFECTS OF THE BGS AND PLAYER ACTIONS.
The Background Simulation (BGS) can have a number of effects on the functionality of CGs.
A number of trade CGs in the past have had their market removed by a player group by putting the system into a state of Lockdown, an adverse effect of attacks on clean targets. This effectively stalls a trade CG. Handing in bounty vouchers to the station would be needed to counter the effects.
Another form of disruption to CGs is UA Bombing (Delivering large quantities of Unknown Artifacts to the Black Market of the hosting station). This will cause technical difficulties for the station, again closing some services.
Keeping an eye on the CG thread in Community Goals discussion will keep you up to date on any developments.
A number of trade CGs in the past have had their market removed by a player group by putting the system into a state of Lockdown, an adverse effect of attacks on clean targets. This effectively stalls a trade CG. Handing in bounty vouchers to the station would be needed to counter the effects.
Another form of disruption to CGs is UA Bombing (Delivering large quantities of Unknown Artifacts to the Black Market of the hosting station). This will cause technical difficulties for the station, again closing some services.
Keeping an eye on the CG thread in Community Goals discussion will keep you up to date on any developments.
So it seems to me one could savely suppose that working the BGS to sabotage a CG is valid gameplay. And I understand how one can be upset if this gameplay is god-modded away.
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That is outdated (see the UA bombing change for example). It is still in the CG description though as that is how FD rolls, but you cant really do much with that quote other than that sometimes something may in some way influence something. As it appears, that sometimes is not now, or at least not like this. Probably.
I assume.
Those who are cackling with delight that OP's efforts were god-modded away are, in my view, tacitly admitting that they value convenient hacks over skill and knowledge.
Anyone with an ounce of integrity would have said "you know what? I don't agree with what the OP is trying to pull with the II, but I would have relished the chance to oppose him within the rules of the game. Now neither of us will ever get that chance."
Anyone with an ounce of integrity would have said "you know what? I don't agree with what the OP is trying to pull with the II, but I would have relished the chance to oppose him within the rules of the game. Now neither of us will ever get that chance."
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Or alternatively, people who feel that John Doe, who gets to play ED for two hours during the weekend, should be allowed to have some fun with a single CG. It is just a question of how much you want people to influence the galaxy. Some want it to be all the way (so you can permanently blow up Earth, Shinrarta etc). Others, like me, feel that that would be a situation where a few people would have fun at the expense of many more people who would not like that. I am sure some would want there to be no influence at all, and you're just a tiny Han Solo at all times. Most fall somewhere in between. I feel screwing up this CG would not be fun for most people, so I'd rather have the people who are into that muck up something somewhere else.
Reducing that discussion to "u just noob cheater lol" is rather... weak.
Anything that Ouberos does in the BGS is counterable by you and all who feel likewise. You do understand that, don't you?
There is a strong doubt that FDev god-modded anything here
Yes, I do. I also understand it is a bit peculiar to expect John Doe to grind his butt off during the week just to be allowed to have a CG in the weekend. It is simple: I feel casual players should be allowed to have some casual fun with the CG without some hardcore players mucking that up. You disagree? Fine. But try to disagree without the "u prolly cheater! U no understand game!". I already have Ouberos for the petty insults about how I am a noob with no friends, one petty fellow is enough.
Your logical fallacy is black or white
You presented two alternative states as the only possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist.tinyurl.com
The truth is quite obvious: your actions can have some influence on the galaxy, but you cant have all the influence you are after. That has made your very upset, and resulted in a bunch of posts where you pretend no influence/agency exists because you didn't get the thing you wanted.
I think we're too old for such nonsense, really.
No u.
Oub and his friends were impacting a relatively small area of the game. Hardly the entire galaxy as you seem to be bringing up here for some useless reason!
Yes, I do. I also understand it is a bit peculiar to expect John Doe to grind his butt off during the week just to be allowed to have a CG in the weekend. It is simple: I feel casual players should be allowed to have some casual fun with the CG without some hardcore players mucking that up. You disagree? Fine. But try to disagree without the "u prolly cheater! U no understand game!". I already have Ouberos for the petty insults about how I am a noob with no friends, one petty fellow is enough.
That's a peculiar way of saying I think that I should be able to influence the game but not those whose playstyle I dislike!
I dislike his desire to dumb down the game.