Playing, not grinding...

[GraXXoR]

OK, so just a counter thread to all the "I quit" and "engineers Suxx0rs" posts...

This will be obvious to some... Apologies to those people.

Although, I believe the Engineers have taken a step for the better with this latest update, I still think people are missing the point and grinding their fun into the dirt.

I spent a a good few hours in my SRV yesterday and challenged myself to drive from one side of a massive crater on Shinrarta A1 to the other in pursuit of Arsenic for Farseer. (2.2%)
It was a good nearly 100km across from rim to rim and had a massive mountain in the middle. It took less than four hours, so a decent average speed. I learned how to rapidly synthesise SRV repairs while rebounding off massive boulders I managed to hit and how to keep my speed about 40kph by "flyving" I ended up with hundreds of all the essentials, like iron, sulphur etc... But also with about 20 Niobium and Polonium, and a few other class four elements as well as over 20 arsenic.

It was the longest drive I've done in ages and I'll say this, the handling of the SRV seems to be somehow less 180° fliptastic than it used to be... (Or I'm better at driving, because I didn't see anything in the release notes).

I then headed back to Jameson Memorial but as I dropped out of supercruise, I saw about 15 hollow triangles and thought the worst... My poor Type 6 had only a size 1 railgun, a set of homing missiles and less than 200 shields.

Just then, a bunch of o7s appeared in chat.... I realised that they were all scanning wakes for data... LOL.... Had a nice 30 minutes and laughed because 10 of the commanders were in Chieftains flying around willy nilly all with different coloured smoke.
My Type 6 "Scrounger II" was no where near fast enough to keep up.... So I popped back to JM for my modded Courier with 845 top speed. Just then someone would say "Wake 10k behind the station!" and we had a great laugh trying not to bump into each other as we raced towards each new wake, leaving smoke trails like the Red Arrows.

If you play the game rather than grind, the Engineers becomes part of it and you're guaranteed to get an upgrade rather than just a "hope for the best."

This new system is much fairer and less grindy than the last but the thing is, if you incorporate the hunt for materials into your gameplay, it's not even grinding anyway...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

This new system is much fairer and less grindy than the last but the thing is, if you incorporate the hunt for materials into your gameplay, it's not even grinding anyway...

I can see problem there if you don't enjoy rest of the game but spaceships part.

I think what obvious to me that it is bigger part of open world games - you will see everything you don't want to do a grind.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I don't post here much if at all these days, I prefer to play...

+1 Rep and all that good stuff for pointing out how this game works, you play it not the other way round. Glad your having fun - Just remember, if ever it feels like a chore, do something else

 

[Ranualf]

I have been lurking at the guardian base @ Synuefe EU-Q c21-10 gathering loads of materials, shooting everything that moves and solving the "puzzle".

Normally i only drive the srv if i "must", but now it is great fun, and i have unlocked all the guardian guns, next is to find some guardian data to unlock the powerplant(and yes you CAN engineer it).

After that, i will probably do some goid scavenging and weapon unlocks, then some more combat & scanning.
There is a great amount of work to do to unlock the gun if you are solo, only slightly slower in a group, as the puzzle only gives 1 guardian weapon blueprint at a time :/

Great stuff, and makes a change from just mission grinding or combat...[zZzZz]

Fly or drive safe and progress your commanders.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… - Just remember, if ever it feels like a chore, do something else

The per material storage is almost the best part of the 3.0 update.

For me it completely removes the "pressure" from collecting materials. Now I can just collect everything and don't have to worry about storage space. As a result it feels like always finding something useful - stupid I know since the usefulness of the mats hasn't changed, but "feelings".

Makes collecting mats more fun to me as I don't have to collect specific mats when I need them. I can collect them when I enjoy doing something that happens to result in me finding mats. Yay.

[hehe]

 

[Valorin]

OK, so just a counter thread to all the "I quit" and "engineers Suxx0rs" posts...

This will be obvious to some... Apologies to those people.

Although, I believe the Engineers have taken a step for the better with this latest update, I still think people are missing the point and grinding their fun into the dirt.

I spent a a good few hours in my SRV yesterday and challenged myself to drive from one side of a massive crater on Shinrarta A1 to the other in pursuit of Arsenic for Farseer. (2.2%)
It was a good nearly 100km across from rim to rim and had a massive mountain in the middle. It took less than four hours, so a decent average speed. I learned how to rapidly synthesise SRV repairs while rebounding off massive boulders I managed to hit and how to keep my speed about 40kph by "flyving" I ended up with hundreds of all the essentials, like iron, sulphur etc... But also with about 20 Niobium and Polonium, and a few other class four elements as well as over 20 arsenic.

It was the longest drive I've done in ages and I'll say this, the handling of the SRV seems to be somehow less 180° fliptastic than it used to be... (Or I'm better at driving, because I didn't see anything in the release notes).

I then headed back to Jameson Memorial but as I dropped out of supercruise, I saw about 15 hollow triangles and thought the worst... My poor Type 6 had only a size 1 railgun, a set of homing missiles and less than 200 shields.

Just then, a bunch of o7s appeared in chat.... I realised that they were all scanning wakes for data... LOL.... Had a nice 30 minutes and laughed because 10 of the commanders were in Chieftains flying around willy nilly all with different coloured smoke.
My Type 6 "Scrounger II" was no where near fast enough to keep up.... So I popped back to JM for my modded Courier with 845 top speed. Just then someone would say "Wake 10k behind the station!" and we had a great laugh trying not to bump into each other as we raced towards each new wake, leaving smoke trails like the Red Arrows.

If you play the game rather than grind, the Engineers becomes part of it and you're guaranteed to get an upgrade rather than just a "hope for the best."

This new system is much fairer and less grindy than the last but the thing is, if you incorporate the hunt for materials into your gameplay, it's not even grinding anyway...

Exactly this. I never "grinded" in Elite and never will. I do things as long as they are fun and then stop and do something else. Just because someone aims for an overmodded ship doesn't mean that someone needs it tomorrow. I also think, many people who complain about grinding perhaps don't like other playstyles than the one they want that overmodded ship for. In that case perhaps Elite just isn't a game for those.

If you don't have fun doing anything else but the things needed to mod your ship, and then complain about not having fun doing that as well, that's a bit awkward.

 

[Alteph Four]

OK, so just a counter thread to all the "I quit" and "engineers Suxx0rs" posts...

This will be obvious to some... Apologies to those people.

Although, I believe the Engineers have taken a step for the better with this latest update, I still think people are missing the point and grinding their fun into the dirt.

I spent a a good few hours in my SRV yesterday and challenged myself to drive from one side of a massive crater on Shinrarta A1 to the other in pursuit of Arsenic for Farseer. (2.2%)
It was a good nearly 100km across from rim to rim and had a massive mountain in the middle. It took less than four hours, so a decent average speed. I learned how to rapidly synthesise SRV repairs while rebounding off massive boulders I managed to hit and how to keep my speed about 40kph by "flyving" I ended up with hundreds of all the essentials, like iron, sulphur etc... But also with about 20 Niobium and Polonium, and a few other class four elements as well as over 20 arsenic.

It was the longest drive I've done in ages and I'll say this, the handling of the SRV seems to be somehow less 180° fliptastic than it used to be... (Or I'm better at driving, because I didn't see anything in the release notes).

I then headed back to Jameson Memorial but as I dropped out of supercruise, I saw about 15 hollow triangles and thought the worst... My poor Type 6 had only a size 1 railgun, a set of homing missiles and less than 200 shields.

Just then, a bunch of o7s appeared in chat.... I realised that they were all scanning wakes for data... LOL.... Had a nice 30 minutes and laughed because 10 of the commanders were in Chieftains flying around willy nilly all with different coloured smoke.
My Type 6 "Scrounger II" was no where near fast enough to keep up.... So I popped back to JM for my modded Courier with 845 top speed. Just then someone would say "Wake 10k behind the station!" and we had a great laugh trying not to bump into each other as we raced towards each new wake, leaving smoke trails like the Red Arrows.

If you play the game rather than grind, the Engineers becomes part of it and you're guaranteed to get an upgrade rather than just a "hope for the best."

This new system is much fairer and less grindy than the last but the thing is, if you incorporate the hunt for materials into your gameplay, it's not even grinding anyway...

Must be nice to have that much speed, I just unlocked Palin but I dont have the materials for engineering 1 ship, let alone the 3 I fly. I have been working on raising my Fed rank, once I am done with that I hope to do some engineering. I dont mind it so much, but I havent gotten anything past grade 3 yet so I probably havent run into the grind yet.

 

[Captain N]

Not sure why anyone would be complaining now, more than they were before 3.0.

Yeah the grind is still there, but it's all so much more logical and palatable now. It's no longer the feature that's actively driving me away from the game, but something I can tolerate.

I no longer need to give up at the mere thought of having to go to some website outside of the game to research what specific exceedingly rare bit or bob I need to pray RNGesus to provide for me and where to find it, I can just hoard "whatever" mats and then trade for what I need, when the need arises.

The mat trader is my new best friend.

It's also more clear what I'm actually getting when I buy a specific upgrade. Want an effect to go with it? Just select the one you want from the list and buy it. Bueno.

I can actually start enjoying the benefits and options the engineers bring me now.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

You can't play without grinding. Eventually you'll face the bulletsponge AI when you opt out of engineers and don't tell me people enjoy peashooting pimpships or spam their FSDs to escape.

 

[Valorin]

Must be nice to have that much speed, I just unlocked Palin but I dont have the materials for engineering 1 ship, let alone the 3 I fly. I have been working on raising my Fed rank, once I am done with that I hope to do some engineering. I dont mind it so much, but I havent gotten anything past grade 3 yet so I probably havent run into the grind yet.

I have a few mods at grade 5 without any grinding. And if I needed a fully modded combat ship, I would plan for weeks or month and just play with the loose aim to gather materials inbetween rather than hardcore gathering stuff until I have everything. Patience is the key here, in my opinion. People who complain about grinding want things fast which are supposed to take some time.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I have a few mods at grade 5 without any grinding. And if I needed a fully modded combat ship, I would plan for weeks or month and just play with the loose aim to gather materials inbetween rather than hardcore gathering stuff until I have everything. Patience is the key here, in my opinion. People who complain about grinding want things fast which are supposed to take some time.

"Some time" is relative. "Fast", too. I find it's just a convenient way to dismiss claims of critique, but that's fine - I don't take it too serious.

 

[Celosia]

You can't play without grinding. Eventually you'll face the bulletsponge AI when you opt out of engineers and don't tell me people enjoy peashooting pimpships or spam their FSDs to escape.

You can absolutely play without grinding and for me personally its more a matter of attitude than anything else.

If I am enjoying what I am doing then I am just playing the game and having fun. If I am doing something I am not enjoying with the intention to get to a specific point of progression quickly then that is grinding at least in my view.

So what I tend to do is just take things easy and do what I have fun with rather than be too specific in my aims. That way I am just playing and having fun when I log in. This doesn't mean I don't progress, I have managed to build up an 11 ship engineered fleet playing this way with enough credits to be comfortable with losing ships along with one Elite rank. Sure I could probably have achieved this quicker or in an more efficient manner but that would have required me to play in a way I don't find fun (i.e. grind) so F that noise.

I accept that my way of playing won't suit everyone but it suits me fine so that is good enough you all chart your own courses as you see fit

 

[Stealthie]

The thing I find frustrating is the contrived and hostile nature of the new engineering system.
It seems like it's been designed to deliberately punish/hinder players who attempt to use it.

It's a shame really.

The first thing I did in 3.0 was head out to the Synuefe sector to have a look around and I had great fun doing that for a day.
Alas, even the "new stuff" there boils down to collecting stuff and trading it for new toys at the various traders.

I'm not really sure what but I just wish FDev would come up with something that wasn't, fundamentally, all about "go and scavenge stuff and then trade it for other stuff while we make it as inconvenient as possible to do that". [sad]

 

[Iskariot]

OK, so just a counter thread to all the "I quit" and "engineers Suxx0rs" posts...

This will be obvious to some... Apologies to those people.

Although, I believe the Engineers have taken a step for the better with this latest update, I still think people are missing the point and grinding their fun into the dirt.

I spent a a good few hours in my SRV yesterday and challenged myself to drive from one side of a massive crater on Shinrarta A1 to the other in pursuit of Arsenic for Farseer. (2.2%)
It was a good nearly 100km across from rim to rim and had a massive mountain in the middle. It took less than four hours, so a decent average speed. I learned how to rapidly synthesise SRV repairs while rebounding off massive boulders I managed to hit and how to keep my speed about 40kph by "flyving" I ended up with hundreds of all the essentials, like iron, sulphur etc... But also with about 20 Niobium and Polonium, and a few other class four elements as well as over 20 arsenic.

It was the longest drive I've done in ages and I'll say this, the handling of the SRV seems to be somehow less 180° fliptastic than it used to be... (Or I'm better at driving, because I didn't see anything in the release notes).

I then headed back to Jameson Memorial but as I dropped out of supercruise, I saw about 15 hollow triangles and thought the worst... My poor Type 6 had only a size 1 railgun, a set of homing missiles and less than 200 shields.

Just then, a bunch of o7s appeared in chat.... I realised that they were all scanning wakes for data... LOL.... Had a nice 30 minutes and laughed because 10 of the commanders were in Chieftains flying around willy nilly all with different coloured smoke.
My Type 6 "Scrounger II" was no where near fast enough to keep up.... So I popped back to JM for my modded Courier with 845 top speed. Just then someone would say "Wake 10k behind the station!" and we had a great laugh trying not to bump into each other as we raced towards each new wake, leaving smoke trails like the Red Arrows.

If you play the game rather than grind, the Engineers becomes part of it and you're guaranteed to get an upgrade rather than just a "hope for the best."

This new system is much fairer and less grindy than the last but the thing is, if you incorporate the hunt for materials into your gameplay, it's not even grinding anyway...

I agree completely.
Aside from a few bugs that need ironing out, I feel the game is beginning to come together in the 'Beyond' Season.
The myriad of things FDev addressed, like Engineers, trading etc. are really a solid step in the right direction.
If FDev keeps up this improvement pass, then the gameplay will have made a huge step forward.
I am very happy with it so far.

 

[Valorin]

The thing I find frustrating is the contrived and hostile nature of the new engineering system.
It seems like it's been designed to deliberately punish/hinder players who attempt to use it.

Huh? Hostile nature? I used it a lot the last two days and so far it has been very nice to me. Oo

"Some time" is relative. "Fast", too. I find it's just a convenient way to dismiss claims of critique, but that's fine - I don't take it too serious.

Yes, of course it's relative. If you grind you want something as fast as possible. Means, the game unlocks something for you if you have the stuff needed for that. Gathering that stuff takes a certain amount of time you can either invest in one go and do nothing else but hunting the stuff you need, eyes fixed on your aim. Or you can just play and do other things while you make a few detours on the way when the opportunity presents itself to gather some of the needed stuff on the way. I do much more of the second option and very little of the first one and so far I have never been frustrated with the game since I started playing more than two years ago.

And yeah, taking a game serious is kinda against the nature of a game.

 

[rhiz]

It was the longest drive I've done in ages and I'll say this, the handling of the SRV seems to be somehow less 180° fliptastic than it used to be... (Or I'm better at driving, because I didn't see anything in the release notes).

I agree with much of your post and that’s generally how I play. More than that though, I wanted to say that I’ve definitely noticed some kind of change for the better with the SRV. I play in VR and while I don’t suffer from motion sickness in any other situation, the SRV always felt a bit too intense over extended periods. Previously I could only do it for 20-30 minutes before I needed to take a break. Since the update it feels much smoother and more comfortable. I thought that I was imagining it, so I'm glad someone else has mentioned it.

 

[jimmychoosshoes]

im guessing you had to grind for your 845 top speed ship in the first place though.

 

[Stealthie]

Huh? Hostile nature? I used it a lot the last two days and so far it has been very nice to me. Oo

Yeah.

The way it allows you to romp through the low levels but then takes more and more rolls to achieve similar improvements in the higher tiers is deliberately hostile.

The low-level upgrades are already easy to achieve because the mat's are easily available.
The higher-tier upgrades are harder to achieve because the mat's are harder to find.
Now they're saying that not only do you have to gather the hard-to-find stuff but you have to find more of it as well.

And then there's the absurd, covert, nature of the mat' traders.

It's FDev deliberately placing contrived obstacles in the player's way, and that leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

[Valorin]

Yeah.

The way it allows you to romp through the low levels but then takes more and more rolls to achieve similar improvements in the higher tiers is deliberately hostile.

The low-level upgrades are already easy to achieve because the mat's are easily available.
The higher-tier upgrades are harder to achieve because the mat's are harder to find.
Now they're saying that not only do you have to gather the hard-to-find stuff but you have to find more of it as well.

And then there's the absurd, covert, nature of the mat' traders.

It's FDev deliberately placing contrived obstacles in the player's way, and that leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

That actually really didn't bother me. Especially because we can pin a blueprint now and don't have to run back once we have the stuff. For my G5 jumprange I just scanned a few wakes everytime I headed off a station and was either able to trade lower level data for wake exceptions or even got some. Same with the other material. And when I had all the stuff I just did another roll and went on with doing stuff while getting material on the way. I went to Dav's hope for CMs once and visited a really nice lava spout spot for Arsenic, but that's about it. Means, I didn't do much deliberate collecting yesterday and had enough to complete G5. If I would have farmed for the stuff allowing me no fun at all inbetween I bet I could have pushed two more ships to G5. But I didn't.

Also, another thing: G5 is the best of the best. It's the pinnacle of tech you can have for your ship. Fact one: You don't need it. Fact two: if you want state of the art, you should have some patience. In my opinion that's absolutely not deliberately placed obstacles. It's the nature of the best of the best stuff.

 

[Stealthie]

That actually really didn't bother me. Especially because we can pin a blueprint now and don't have to run back once we have the stuff. For my G5 jumprange I just scanned a few wakes everytime I headed off a station and was either able to trade lower level data for wake exceptions or even got some. Same with the other material. And when I had all the stuff I just did another roll and went on with doing stuff while getting material on the way. I went to Dav's hope for CMs once and visited a really nice lava spout spot for Arsenic, but that's about it. Means, I didn't do much deliberate collecting yesterday and had enough to complete G5. If I would have farmed for the stuff allowing me no fun at all inbetween I bet I could have pushed two more ships to G5. But I didn't.

To be fair, it's probably only a temporary thing.

Once we all have proper stockpiles of mat's, and have visited all the mat-traders so they appear on the map, it probably won't be an issue.

That's why it feels so "cheap" though.
It's just an obvious, deliberate, attempt to obstruct the player.