Playing, not grinding...

[Valorin]

It's just an obvious, deliberate, attempt to obstruct the player.

That's what I mean. I think it's not. It's a good price for state of the art stuff. Imagine it was easier to get G5 done. It wouldn't be special in any way. I really think the idea of Engineering in general is not to grind-gather all the stuff and have a complete G5 ship makeover, but to upgrade your ship bit by bit on your journey. With that idea in mind it's not obstructions, but just the price for the good stuff. The difference between a good computer and a state of the art computer is a lot of money. And though a good computer is absolutely enough in most cases, state of the art is what people want. Me too. But I would have to invest a lot for that and have to decide if that is worth it. Same with the Engineers. Just that it's not about real money.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The per material storage is almost the best part of the 3.0 update.

Makes collecting mats more fun to me as I don't have to collect specific mats when I need them. I can collect them when I enjoy doing something that happens to result in me finding mats. Yay.

Agreed (that and remote workshops) - it's given me something to do. Previously, I'd fly about ... my materials and data storage were basically full, I have plenty of money, so I'd just be flying around for the sake of flying the ship.

Now ... I drop into USSes to see what's there, I take missions and go where they lead to get materials. At this stage I don't particularly care what materials - I'm in Colonia and my ships are already engineered - it's just something to do. When I get some spare time I'll be heading off to pin some blueprints, get a few G1+experimental modules stored, and then I can start using these materials too...

 

[Barking_Mad]

im guessing you had to grind for your 845 top speed ship in the first place though.

If you're having fun you're not grinding. If you're grinding you're not having fun. Your choice.

 

[Captain N]

It's absurd to debate whether there's grind in the game. Of course there is. The game is built around that game mechanic. Every part of the game's design is imbued with it. Collect X amount of doohickles to unlock Y. Then do it again. You can grind slowly and casually and take your time, or you can go full 24/7 nolife hardcore gamer and powergrind your way through it all but it's not like ignoring it makes it go away.

Without grind/progression we would have everything unlocked from the start. Is that what people prefer? To be perfectly honest, I'd probably enjoy the game more. But I'd also like to see more complexity and heightened skill ceiling to replace it.

 

[Stealthie]

That's what I mean. I think it's not. It's a good price for state of the art stuff. Imagine it was easier to get G5 done. It wouldn't be special in any way.

Point is, it'd be far more straightforward if they just, y'know, made G5 mat's however hard to find they think is appropriate.

If you want a G5 mod' we're going to make you do G1, G2, G3 and G4 mod's first.
Then we're going to fiddle the RNG so it's increasingly difficult to progress through the tiers.
But we're going to provide you with mat-traders to alleviate some of the annoyance.
And we've given you a map that allows you to locate the nearest mat-trader.
Except that it won't show them until after you've found them.

It's like going to a shop to buy a TV, only for the salesman to insist that you pay for it in £1 coins, by depositing them all in boxes which have been hidden around the shop.
While you're blindfolded.

 

[KING5TON]

I'm not sure what to actually do in the game that isn't grind in some way shape or form.

I guess that if I only played for a couple of hours a week then I could just do a bit of light bounty hunting.

Anything more than that and it gets a bit grindy, doing the same thing over and over again with little variation.

If I switch career and be a trader for example that's even grindier, flying back and forth between two stations gets dull real quick. Even if I jazz it up a bit and find some kind of trade route it's still not going to entertain me for long.

I could switch again and explore but jump, honk, jump, honk, scoop is even grindier, even looking at interesting planets gets dull quickly since you can't really do a whole lot.

Mining, I've never had the patience for, too dull.

Is there anything else to do which isn't large stretches of just faffing about not really doing much? (I'm sure someone will suggest looking for guardian ruins or some such, which as far as I can see is mainly spending large amounts of time faffing about not really doing much)

I've no idea how some people can play as much as they claim they do.

 

[Oss133]

"Do not try and break the grind, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth ...there is no grind. Then you'll see that it is not the grind that breaks, it is only yourself."

 

[S. Belmont]

I guess we even need to define "grind". For me there is no such thing as "grinding casually". Yes, I collect stuff. I collect credits. I collect rep. But instead of grinding, I do those things while I actually do some fun stuff. It is slow, but I have never understood the rush to get the next shiny thing. Not in games or in real life.

I have about 1100 hours of Elite under my belt. I'm not Elite in any of the categories. I don't have much uninvested credits and my newest and most expensive ship is Anaconda, which I just recently bought. Some of my ships are more engineered, some not so much.

But during those over thousand hours, I have NEVER grinded. Like OP said, just playing, not grinding.

 

[777Driver]

I guess we even need to define "grind". For me there is no such thing as "grinding casually". Yes, I collect stuff. I collect credits. I collect rep. But instead of grinding, I do those things while I actually do some fun stuff. It is slow, but I have never understood the rush to get the next shiny thing. Not in games or in real life.

I have about 1100 hours of Elite under my belt. I'm not Elite in any of the categories. I don't have much uninvested credits and my newest and most expensive ship is Anaconda, which I just recently bought. Some of my ships are more engineered, some not so much.

But during those over thousand hours, I have NEVER grinded. Like OP said, just playing, not grinding.

^This

 

[zarrazee]

OP. 100% agree.

It's a sad state of affairs when we have to point out to some people that playing a computer GAME should be FUN.

 

[Majic-12]

I guess we even need to define "grind". For me there is no such thing as "grinding casually". Yes, I collect stuff. I collect credits. I collect rep. But instead of grinding, I do those things while I actually do some fun stuff. It is slow, but I have never understood the rush to get the next shiny thing. Not in games or in real life.

I have about 1100 hours of Elite under my belt. I'm not Elite in any of the categories. I don't have much uninvested credits and my newest and most expensive ship is Anaconda, which I just recently bought. Some of my ships are more engineered, some not so much.

But during those over thousand hours, I have NEVER grinded. Like OP said, just playing, not grinding.

Looks like you're behind in your grind, but it seems you don't mind.

So I guess you'll be fine.

 

[sollisb]

Point is, it'd be far more straightforward if they just, y'know, made G5 mat's however hard to find they think is appropriate.

If you want a G5 mod' we're going to make you do G1, G2, G3 and G4 mod's first.
Then we're going to fiddle the RNG so it's increasingly difficult to progress through the tiers.
But we're going to provide you with mat-traders to alleviate some of the annoyance.
And we've given you a map that allows you to locate the nearest mat-trader.
Except that it won't show them until after you've found them.

It's like going to a shop to buy a TV, only for the salesman to insist that you pay for it in £1 coins, by depositing them all in boxes which have been hidden around the shop.
While you're blindfolded.

There's a bigger problem; In their pursuit to hinder the player, they put these obstacles in place, which really only last as long as you've umcovered what you need. Then they are no longer obstacles.

And it becomes a vicious circle. Rather than create immersive, fun content, they have this propensity to just want to annoy players.

They need to get it out of their head, that really, there is no need to 'balance' the game. There is nothing to win. The best one can strive for is ranks, credits and ships. If they gave us more to do with those, it'd be a whole lot better.

 

[TieKnee]

+1 OP ... very well said!!!!

 

[C64Fan]

I agree with OP.

I think many players handle this update the wrong way: They begin engineering shortly after downloading, and that will lead to frustration for sure. They need to spend time accumulating materials first, because getting materials is easier and faster now. Missions rewards more for sure, and my own experience is that the spawnrate of G4 materials and lower has been increased considerably. At the same time you can grab ALL materials from USS’ now and don’t have to leave good stuff behind, which means you get a lot more and only spend a couple of minutes more collecting them. Also when you are harvesting Datamined Wake Exeptions all the other kinds of data you get are actually usefull now - with zero extra time spent. Give it time.

 

[Captain N]

I guess we even need to define "grind". For me there is no such thing as "grinding casually". Yes, I collect stuff. I collect credits. I collect rep. But instead of grinding, I do those things while I actually do some fun stuff. It is slow, but I have never understood the rush to get the next shiny thing. Not in games or in real life.

I have about 1100 hours of Elite under my belt. I'm not Elite in any of the categories. I don't have much uninvested credits and my newest and most expensive ship is Anaconda, which I just recently bought. Some of my ships are more engineered, some not so much.

But during those over thousand hours, I have NEVER grinded. Like OP said, just playing, not grinding.

If you have to repeat an action a large number of times in order to unlock something, then it's grind.

It's what that mechanic is called. It's a method of gating progression.

If you're engaging with that mechanic by playing a game that implements grinding mechanics, yes, you are grinding.

 

[777Driver]

Can say I have never grinded for anything in this game over the past 3 years, except the final ranks for my Cutter, would never do that again. I could have varied my activities, but I wanted to unlock the same day, so it was spamming the same missions over and over until my eyes bled.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

If you have to repeat an action a large number of times in order to unlock something, then it's grind.

It's what that mechanic is called. It's a method of gating progression.

If you're engaging with that mechanic by playing a game that implements grinding mechanics, yes, you are grinding.

No, it is not a grind. It is playing game with repeated gameplay loops.

Grind indicates emotions about such gameplay. Which might or might not be justified.

You will call it a grind because you find it disappointing. I won't. That's two different emotional approaches to repeated gameplay loops.

 

[Dbrn47]

Maybe focusing on upgrading ships people enjoy is their version of 'playing the game' and once fully upgraded they can 'play the game better'. Anyhow, another circular thread surely set to go round and round... K bye.

No, it is not a grind. It is playing game with repeated gameplay loops.

Grind indicates emotions about such gameplay. Which might or might not be justified.

You will call it a grind because you find it disappointing. I won't. That's two different emotional approaches to repeated gameplay loops.

Keep up the good ol semantics fight sir.

 

[GraXXoR]

im guessing you had to grind for your 845 top speed ship in the first place though.

Enhanced Thrusters for the win and a couple of DD rolls for the winnest... A visit to Jameson Base for lightweight mods and done... Not much of a grind...

Unless you're talking about unlocking Palin to level 5.... Actually, unlocking Palin was one of the most memorable parts of the game...

If you don't like RP then don't bother reading the spoiler below, it's a wall of text... Suffice it to say that the Teaka Elite Altruist Baggers (TEA Baggers) player faction helped me get the Modular Terminals for unlocking Qwent and my commander's previous circumnavigation of the milky way (10,000 jumps and 300kylies) gave me enough data to get my Sirius pass, and unlock Elvira, Palin, Farseer, Selene and Jameson all immediately to grade 5. Heck, when I left the bubble, the engineers didn't even exist, so I certainly didn't feel any grind, I was just committed to getting all the way around the milky way.

Spoiler

Back To The Bubble... A short tale.

So, I had been out of the bubble since before the talk of these elusive Engineers surfaced and came back from my 300 kylie circumnavigation of the galaxy.. What is a frustrated man to do, back from the rim?

Still 12 kylies out of the bubble I heard over the low bandwidth sub-utlra comms array a terse message coded in breftxt of the now legendary Morai CG shaping up and hearing that the progress was heating up, I high tailed it back.... 450 jumps in less than 8 hours later, I was back in the bubble. I had just enough time to research an "optimal homecoming" and decided my first post of call coming back would be Ngurii for 3 Soontill relics which a certain rumoured systems whiz called Elivra was hankering for.

With great trepidation in my delapidated Asp, I snuck back into the bubble as low silhouette as possible. Creators be praised, I reached the outskirts without incident and at Ngurii, my first port of call for over four months out on the rim I had my ship repaired and refilled, by a group of overworked and underappreciated technicians.

After hunting around the market for a bit I managed to pick the up some pristine looking relics. Spooky things, seemed not to want to be held, as if they would slip out of my grasp if I stopped paying attention. Made me shiver just looking at them.

Once they were locked up in their heavy crates and safely onboard, I headed cautiously to Shinrarta to change out of my tired Asp and meet up with some good old buddies from the Pilot's Fed.

I shared a few tales and shared a bunch of my discoveries with them and they seemed very happy the results.

Once I had a chance to say hello to my Cutter, which to their credit they had looked after gratis for nearly six months, I signed up for the closing moments of Morai and in the last three hours before the deadline (with a truck load of unclaimed exploration data) got myself in to the top ten per.

Claiming my 350kk and and after a all-too-short stop at the Dezhra soaplands, I headed off to Elvie. Oh my she was pleased to see me. Let's just say she has a very personal way of expressing gratitude when it comes to Xplodata. Within a couple of vigorous, sweaty but exhilarating hours I found myself in her... very bestest of good books. ;-)

What's more, she even introduced me to a couple of her buddies, Zach and Marco.
Zach is cool and all, but it was Marco from Sirius who really intrigued me. So it was off to Procyon to get myself in the Sirius Corp's books by selling copious amounts of Cartography data and thus receive a Sirius Permit, allowing me to meet with The Qwent himself.

Now here was the first issue I had with the universe after getting back. The ubiquitous commodity called Modular Terminals were elusive, in the last couple of days, I had only managed to find 4 of the blasted things.

Now Qwent runs a line of self-branded terminals, each updated with his apparently epic-grade firmware. Thus anyone who can bring him a truckload is bound to receive a favour or two from him... But I was buggered if I could find any more.

However, good Karma comes around and out of the blue, the Teaka Elite Altruist Baggers (TEA Baggers) helped me by offering me the missing terminals in exchange for my help in an upcoming skirmish.

I met Qwent, delivered his Terms and he, in response upgraded a few of my bits and bobs. What a guy! Very good looking, from an Engineer point of view. Heck, he was even kind enough to introduce me to his compatriot, a professor no less. Professor Palin.

Heading over to Maia to pay my respects to this paragon of learning whom I had heard about when the whole barnacle thing went down, I had the spectacle of the Pleiades nebula to welcome me.

Palin was a gracious host and told me that if I shared some of my exploration data with him, he would be happy to take a look at my ship.
We got though 20kk of Carto including numerous water worlds, a number of ammonia worlds (which he seemed inordinately interested in) and even a couple of ringed Earthlikes. All in all, he was well chuffed and promised to let me access his most extensive experiments.

I thanked him profusely, promising him I would be back with more materials for his research.

But before he left, he told me that there was this old flame of his, on the other side of the bubble. A lovely lass called felicity... Over a few glasses of Lavian's best, we chatted about lost loves and new loves and the chance of other life in the galaxy when he asked me if I wouldn't pick up a tonne of Metas and take them over to her with a little mention of his name while I was at it.

Having partaken of more Brandy than is good for even a solidly built man like myself I promised him forthwith and headed to the market place to negotiate a price on a rather rare and important good.

With the Metas safely in the cargo hold, I bid Maia good bye and headed off back into the bubble and out the other side.

Deciat. Ah Deciat. The seat of the visionary... And quite literally I mean it, too.... Dr. Farseer.

She greeted me courteously enough, having knowledge of my extensive travels, but it was only when I passed her the key to the trunk which held the meta alloys, on Palin's good request, that she opened up.

She told me that she, like Palin was interested in everything and anything to do with the "makeup" of the galaxy.
I pulled out a bottle of Lavian Brandy '86 vintage which Palin had entrusted me with and asked her if she would be interested in taking a look at some of the data I had acquired on my circumnavigation...

Oh how her eyes lit up, both at the Brandy, clearly a vintage that had some special meaning to her and at the offer of carto. It was then and I realised why her name was so appropriate for with a voracious appetite, she browsed her way through and selected at least 20 million credits worth of data from the farthest reaches of the milky way!

We polished off the entire bottle.

The next day, after a few more bits and bobs changed hands, she personally modified my ship's frame shift drive and increased the range by nearly 50%. I was gobsmacked. Not only that, but she had the good graces to introduce me to one of her oldest friends, Juri Ishmaak. I will forever be grateful to her!

After promising to bring more of my ships to her laden with materials useful for her research, I bade her farewell and headed off into the black...

Since I never cared about the last 5%-10% of the performance boost (I don't PvP) I never found the engineers a grind TBH... Didn't like the randomness and they were frustrating, but I just set a limit, say 3 rolls, and took what I was given... Not the best, maybe, but far better than vanilla..

 

[GraXXoR]

Point is, it'd be far more straightforward if they just, y'know, made G5 mat's however hard to find they think is appropriate.

If you want a G5 mod' we're going to make you do G1, G2, G3 and G4 mod's first.
Then we're going to fiddle the RNG so it's increasingly difficult to progress through the tiers.
But we're going to provide you with mat-traders to alleviate some of the annoyance.
And we've given you a map that allows you to locate the nearest mat-trader.
Except that it won't show them until after you've found them.

It's like going to a shop to buy a TV, only for the salesman to insist that you pay for it in £1 coins, by depositing them all in boxes which have been hidden around the shop.
While you're blindfolded.

I’m usually in agreement with you stealthie, but I’ll have to say no on this occasion. I have pinned DDs and FSD range blueprints and that’s made my life a whole lot easier.

I’ve found my entire play style has changed. Now I scan USSs in supercruise and it seems to make the time go much quicker. If I feel like it (high grade, encoded, threat 5) I drop in and take a gander.

I have fitted the limpet controller to most of my bigger ships and a couple of smaller scavengers. I scan wakes outside stations. I take missions with factions to rank up and for the selectable rewards (when the boards are working).

I’m a lot more “multitasky” than I was prior to 3.0 and my gameplay is more varied.