please allow us to buy materials from mats traders with credits

[CMDR JENCK]

In my opinion is abs. useless and would kill the game feel , thats more real and complex, also more spread of commanders around galaxy right now with grinding .
Dont blame the game with such a foolish things like billionairs in real life do with their money , it should be like how it is cause beginners also have to have some equalities besides elite rich comms.
But who know ... the thrut is that money isnt everything , its a simulation game can be rpg , and definetely not a Strategic game.

 

[Bowak]

So if we are to avoid grind in any forms, you need a scripted game where you do not have control, you have to give up everything that makes Elite great, and since we cannot repeat stuff, as that is base for what is the grind... we would soon either find us doing ludicrous things or we have reached the end of the game, and then only option left is to restart the game, but that would be grinding now, as you would do the same thing again. So one play through and then toss it away.



So please, tell us how you would remove grind from games like Elite, because if simple stuff like landing on a station is a repetitive task, aka grinding, no matter if you are doing it manually or using a docking computer, can take that part away.

Well for a start I wouldn't describe any activity that can be repeated as grind automatically, so we obviously differ at least somewhat in how we define the term. You've also taken my viewpoint as being that any repetition at all is grind, which I havent stated anywhere so I hope is just an accidental strawmanning of my earlier post - or quite possibly a hell of a lot of hyperbole.

But, one thing I think that would help with the grind that's there is to not go too far into tailoring the game for the players with the most hours in such a way that when you get people (not saying you've said this, I honestly don't know) saying things like "I've played for 1,000+ hours and now everything's too easy", I largely think that the correct answer from the developers should be something like "Brilliant, we're delighted that you enjoyed the game for as long as you did. We're glad that our game provided half a working year's worth of entertainment for you and we hope you enjoyed most if not all of the gameplay mechanics and content. We hope you enjoy the next game you play even half as much as you obviously enjoyed ED".

Obviously if they can make and keep the game exciting and interesting for those of us with <100 hours and those with >1,000 hours, then that's brilliant, and I certainly don't think that there should be a limit to how long anyone plays the game. But, I'm glad it's finally in a state where there is more to do, and easier money to be made in the earlyish stages as after 4 years and 3 previous periods of playing, it's finally feeling somewhat complete (atmospherics excepted). And by easier money, I mean as in an early stage player can now try out a fair few ships relatively quickly, instead of slogging away to earn the next one as was the case about 3 years ago when I last played regularly. That said, I'm still glad that in the first few hours I had to think carefully about which 1 module to try next and it reminded me of the fun first few hours of the Gran Turismo games, when you have to think carefully about which one aspect of your ship/car's performance you want to upgrade.

EDIT: I also think the current state of credits are easy to get so you can try many ships out, but materials are trickier and require more of a grindy focus is quita a good balance of playstyles. For me, I can try out several ships, and do a bit of engineering, probably to G3 level. But those who wnat the G5 and/or enjoy the grindier side get the reward of a more tuned ship.

Also, to be fair (and, also to be fair, I could have been a bit clearer about), I was replying to the person who said "no grind no game", which I disagree with due to the absolutist nature of the statement. If, like you seem to, someone views any repetition of a gameplay aspect as being grind, then I could maybe see it. But I see grind as being more like excessive and/or needless repetition. So, having to dock I don't view as grind as it's part of the gameplay when you want to land at a station. However, if you had to dock 100 times at each individual station to earn a better docking pad there (ie not the ones immediately inside) I'd view that as a grind, and a poorly implemented one at that

 

[Kerissimo]

as it stands even with trading and picking sites to optimize your mats gathering its still a bit of a long grind to engineer well anything

i suggest that we be allowed to buy materials for grades 1 through 3 from the mats traders directly

10 credits per 1 mat at grade 1, 50 at grade 2 and 100 at grade 3

this would take some of the edge off of grinding engineering mats.

Its Great idea to buy them, just the prices should be high ( grinding mats vs grinding credits, choose the one you like to grind)

I would like to buy even 4 and 5 grade mats, just with adequate higher prices (in hundreds of thousands or million per unit maybe?) And make someone actually having them hard to find or change locations or make them always low on stock. Because for some spend hundreds of millions is just nothing.

 

[fishbait]

Its Great idea to buy them, just the prices should be high ( grinding mats vs grinding credits, choose the one you like to grind)

I would like to buy even 4 and 5 grade mats, just with adequate higher prices (in hundreds of thousands or million per unit maybe?) And make someone actually having them hard to find or change locations or make them always low on stock. Because for some spend hundreds of millions is just nothing.

Agreed mostly save for the hard to find part that but is pointless with third party tools it'd be known who had what and where in near real time, and you can't ban them the 3rd party tools have become integral to the games experience.

Yes the exact prices would need tweaking and should be high but still allow for bulk buying without making engineering too easy.

And with trading you could buy grade 3 and trade up for grades 4 and 5, my thinking was that it'd stack in such a way that grades 1-3 would be attainable with a moderate grind of some fashion and grades 4 and 5 would require more grind than that in some form or another.

 

[Psychomorph]

Materials are more rare compared to natural resources, so salvaging them could be a lucrative job. Harder to find, but fetch better price. So people could buy them eventually as commodity. It could be so that many stations don't accept them, so you'd need to smuggle the stuff in and sell/buy on the black market. Independent stations could have a legal salvage market.

The problem is, if salvage are from destroyed vessels, why not buy ships and dismantle them for the components. It would make little sense if damaged ship components that are salvage would cost nearly more than a new ship.


- - -

Are there good salvage tutorials? I unlocked the Guardian FSD Booster recently and needed only 2 more focus crystals and it took me an entire evening of poking USS' to finally get those. I would like to engineer an Anaconda for max jump range, but if that is what I have to go through times 10, I swear I'm going to uninstall the game.

 

[dunno]

F-Dev have provided sites for farming mats, They provide rare mats readily in combat debris, Then they introduced Material Traders, Then they made finding HGE's easy with FSS, Then they made money easy with mining, yet, this is not enough.

F-Dev please let Harmless Billionare's buy a fully modded G5 'Vette, I would love to collect rare Mats from the debris )

 

[Kenpachi85]

F-Dev have provided sites for farming mats, They provide rare mats readily in combat debris, Then they introduced Material Traders, Then they made finding HGE's easy with FSS, Then they made money easy with mining, yet, this is not enough.

F-Dev please let Harmless Billionare's buy a fully modded G5 'Vette, I would love to collect rare Mats from the debris )

I'm at davs hope right now and getting mats seems easy enough to me and when I get bored doing circuits I roam around and collect jumponium ingredients. The mat system as of now seems good to me at least but if they ever got rid of davs thatd suck big time place is like a one stop shop for everything.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Well for a start I wouldn't describe any activity that can be repeated as grind automatically, so we obviously differ at least somewhat in how we define the term. You've also taken my viewpoint as being that any repetition at all is grind, which I havent stated anywhere so I hope is just an accidental strawmanning of my earlier post - or quite possibly a hell of a lot of hyperbole.

But, one thing I think that would help with the grind that's there is to not go too far into tailoring the game for the players with the most hours in such a way that when you get people (not saying you've said this, I honestly don't know) saying things like "I've played for 1,000+ hours and now everything's too easy", I largely think that the correct answer from the developers should be something like "Brilliant, we're delighted that you enjoyed the game for as long as you did. We're glad that our game provided half a working year's worth of entertainment for you and we hope you enjoyed most if not all of the gameplay mechanics and content. We hope you enjoy the next game you play even half as much as you obviously enjoyed ED".

Obviously if they can make and keep the game exciting and interesting for those of us with <100 hours and those with >1,000 hours, then that's brilliant, and I certainly don't think that there should be a limit to how long anyone plays the game. But, I'm glad it's finally in a state where there is more to do, and easier money to be made in the earlyish stages as after 4 years and 3 previous periods of playing, it's finally feeling somewhat complete (atmospherics excepted). And by easier money, I mean as in an early stage player can now try out a fair few ships relatively quickly, instead of slogging away to earn the next one as was the case about 3 years ago when I last played regularly. That said, I'm still glad that in the first few hours I had to think carefully about which 1 module to try next and it reminded me of the fun first few hours of the Gran Turismo games, when you have to think carefully about which one aspect of your ship/car's performance you want to upgrade.

EDIT: I also think the current state of credits are easy to get so you can try many ships out, but materials are trickier and require more of a grindy focus is quita a good balance of playstyles. For me, I can try out several ships, and do a bit of engineering, probably to G3 level. But those who wnat the G5 and/or enjoy the grindier side get the reward of a more tuned ship.

Also, to be fair (and, also to be fair, I could have been a bit clearer about), I was replying to the person who said "no grind no game", which I disagree with due to the absolutist nature of the statement. If, like you seem to, someone views any repetition of a gameplay aspect as being grind, then I could maybe see it. But I see grind as being more like excessive and/or needless repetition. So, having to dock I don't view as grind as it's part of the gameplay when you want to land at a station. However, if you had to dock 100 times at each individual station to earn a better docking pad there (ie not the ones immediately inside) I'd view that as a grind, and a poorly implemented one at that

I can see that we do have more similar views on this then.
I do agree with your assessment that a game should not evolve around players that put massive amount of time into it.

 

[IohannisTyrannis]

No?

 

[Daynen]

This idea has run through my mind a lot in recent times. The ability to trade credits for materials would have some startling repercussions if done carelessly. Done with forethought, however, it could have wonderful effects. The prices would have to be reasonable, but not bargain bin low for low level mats, but quickly ramp up to serious prices at higher grades. It would also make sense to have prices affected by system states, economy--you know, all the "BGS" factors so they respond to player behavior and encourage a bit of traveling which in turn often leads to discovering gameplay and mats anyway! Tuning required, obviously. I can think of a few pros and cons offhand, though there may be more far reaching consequences I haven't thought of yet.

PROS:

-Players could pad their material collection and more seamlessly transition into engineering a little sooner once they've found a ship they enjoy.
-They don't have to have a friend rush them to T9 cargo runs making a billion a day before they start enjoying their ship on a level field with the galaxy.
-Some will still want to go straight to an annie, but not all--especially if their friends learn how to sell them on MORE THAN JUST ENDGAME SHIPS.
-Players will now have another direction in which to throw their credits, creating a broader, deeper array of choices as they get their career underway. "Do I save up for the A-grade beams or grab a couple of mats and get my distributor to T3?" A game is a series of interesting choices and this would add a few.
-Players will have the opportunity to start learning how to engineer properly sooner in their careers because they can approach it with a little less apprehension.
-Players can try out more blueprints and effects because they can simply dump some credits and replace a few mats if they're not happy with an effect.
-Fdev would then have an incentive to design more diverse content AND more diverse engineering options since more players would have access a bit sooner.
-New players can be told about the game without adding the mandatory addendum: "It gets good...once you've done some grinding." Would probably keep more than a few new players.

CONS:
-Players can easily spend themselves broke on engineering. Don't fly without rebuy, aye?
-Some new players WILL abuse the feature by having friends run them through wing missions with abandon, hitting gold rushes and stocking up on mats in record time rather than actually going on the journey of playing the game themselves, leading to a rash of well-equipped noobs who can't even land cleanly but have G4-G5 ships.
-Some players will feel sore about all the precious time they spent collecting mats when everyone can just buy them now, rather than celebrating the new accessibility of engineering (which, let's face it, gets mandatory pretty fast these days and is where a lot of the shipbuilding fun really is.)
-Some players WILL overuse the ability to buy mats and accelerate themselves to boredom by trying everything really quickly and losing interest. This is bad, but inevitable.

I think the idea is worth workshopping a bit. Caveats and considerations included, I think if handled well it could be healthy for the game.

 

[emmpeabee]

That means I could buy every material from grade 1-3 of all types, about 5,000,000 times over. Then trade up for grade 4-5.

The reason you can't buy materials is because most of us have too much money.

Besides, getting grade 1-3 materials is easy.

It's 4-5 that are the pains. Lol

Try that in Colonia ...

 

[Old Duck]

as it stands even with trading and picking sites to optimize your mats gathering its still a bit of a long grind to engineer well anything

i suggest that we be allowed to buy materials for grades 1 through 3 from the mats traders directly

10 credits per 1 mat at grade 1, 50 at grade 2 and 100 at grade 3

this would take some of the edge off of grinding engineering mats.

I've got tons of scrap iron in my garage that you are welcome to.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

F-Dev have provided sites for farming mats, They provide rare mats readily in combat debris, Then they introduced Material Traders, Then they made finding HGE's easy with FSS, Then they made money easy with mining, yet, this is not enough.

F-Dev please let Harmless Billionare's buy a fully modded G5 'Vette, I would love to collect rare Mats from the debris )

And While you're at it FD

Please stop giving away fully engineered ships for 5% cost and none of the grind to careless pilots
"Oh sir, you've broken your fully engineered G5 Cutter...again, yes, we do have one identical... well in fact, we have as many as you and everyone else can break!... every day"

 

[Daynen]

The solution to the "too many credits" problem is obvious: ships need to cost commensurately more to rebuy when engineered. Can't recall if they do already (haven't lost a ship in quite a while) but if they don't, then adding to the rebuy would make sense and help keep the ease of buying mats in line.

I mean come on--you cannot tell me with a straight face that a G5 modded corvette WOULDN'T be worth astronomically more than a stock one. I'll call you a liar to your face.

 

[Captain Willard]

Raising the rebuy only hurts newer players, those without all the upgrades. Credits mean nothing now, it took me forever to get my first asp and another forever to get a clipper.
I've lost 80 ships but I fight to the death. Not throw shield cells as fast as can be then run.
Credits for mats will never happen. Might as well remove all planetary minerals, uss, scanners and srv's from the game.

 

[Daynen]

I don't mean raising the global rebuy cost; just accounting for the extra performance of engineered vessels when we rebuy. It wouldn't do a thing to new players until they've engineered and then lost their ship.​

 

[fishbait]

I'm at davs hope right now and getting mats seems easy enough to me and when I get bored doing circuits I roam around and collect jumponium ingredients. The mat system as of now seems good to me at least but if they ever got rid of davs thatd suck big time place is like a one stop shop for everything.

not everything trades for everything else you ever tried to get g5 mats in anything less than a few days grinding like that?

 

[fishbait]

I don't mean raising the global rebuy cost; just accounting for the extra performance of engineered vessels when we rebuy. It wouldn't do a thing to new players until they've engineered and then lost their ship.​

don't they already do that?

 

[dunno]

not everything trades for everything else you ever tried to get g5 mats in anything less than a few days grinding like that?

it raises the question of, how difficult should it be to engineer a ship ?. A fully engineered fighter of any class is a formidable weapon against NPC's they stand no chance, If engineering becomes 3 mouse clicks and a bucket of scrap why bother with it, might as well offer G5 anything at shipyards, where's the satisfaction, pride, sense of achievement because the high bar was met.

After finishing FO4 without mods I decided to replay FO4 with weapon cheats, I stopped playing after a few quests because over charged weapons removed any sense of achievement, there was no challenge to the game at all so I stopped playing it with cheats.

It's taken me a year in Elite to acquire a fantastic killing ship G5 everything yet the NPC's are still challenging when against Wings or Elite engineered NPC's. During that time there were a few times that I parked ED and played something else on my PS4 only to realise that recent games all follow the same formula/recipe, I've 15 games on my console, I haven't played 2 (saving them for later), and not finished 10 which I found boring.

Realising that most games are repetitive/boring I took a hard look at Elite and liked its repetitiveness, the skill levels required to enjoy it are high, I love flying, plus I'm hooked on VR which I got specifically for Elite. I'm still perfecting my combat skills as its the one discipline that I'm not proficient at, this I discovered thanks to a great Elite CMDR that I stumbled upon in Open, he had no shields, he didn't kill me, just thumped me hard, I learnt tons from that one encounter.

I think I fell into the trap of instant gratification which seems to be the modern mantra, I'm no spring chicken yet I fell for that. Loot boxes and micro transactions have thankfully been curbed if not then game play would've been two buttons, "Start" and the other "To Win Quest Pay $50".

 

[fishbait]

it raises the question of, how difficult should it be to engineer a ship ?. A fully engineered fighter of any class is a formidable weapon against NPC's they stand no chance, If engineering becomes 3 mouse clicks and a bucket of scrap why bother with it, might as well offer G5 anything at shipyards, again where's the game play, the satisfaction, pride, sense of achievement because the high bar was met.

After finishing FO4 without mods I decided to replay FO4 with weapon cheats, I stopped playing after a few quests because over charged weapons removed any sense of achievement, there was no challenge to the game at all so I stopped playing it with cheats.

It's taken me a year in Elite to acquire a fantastic killing ship G5 everything yet the NPC's are still challenging when against Wings or Elite engineered NPC's. During that time there were a few times that I parked ED and played something else on my PS4 only to realise that recent games all follow the same formula/recipe, I've 15 games on my console, I haven't played 2 (saving them for later), and not finished 10 which I found boring.

Realising that most games are repetitive/boring I took a hard look at Elite and liked its repetitiveness, the skill levels required to enjoy it are high, I love flying, plus I'm hooked on VR which I got specifically for Elite. I'm still perfecting my combat skills as its the one discipline that I'm not proficient at, this I discovered thanks to a great Elite CMDR that I stumbled upon in Open, he had no shields, he didn't kill me, just thumped me hard, I learnt tons from that one encounter.

I think I fell into the trap of instant gratification which seems to be the modern mantra, I'm no spring chicken yet I fell for that. Loot boxes and micro transactions have thankfully been curbed if not then game play would've been two buttons, "Start" and the other "To Win and Finish Pay $500".

thats why i and others have said it shouldn't be cheap it boils down to time

no matter what we pay in time. at present theres lots of people with great money that they spent alot of time getting lowering the intrinsic value of credits, inversely theres a huge time investment in gathering materials for engineering, only just made not insane by the mats traders however if we could buy mats then the only true cost would be time and it would help not only give more intrinsic value to credits but also help more casual players with less hours in the game store time they've spent as credits and spend that stored time towards accelerating engineering and going back to the loops they love.

does that make some sense?