Please commit to rerolling the planets...

[Melvich]

It is a difficult situation, either the game remains static and unchanged (which for an alleged MMO is a death-knell anyway) or 'improves' and alienates some of the players who are averse to any change at all. (there does appear to be one or two who post such a sentiment on the forum)

The situation is exasperated by the new tech not delivering what was expected (even by Dr Ross, it seems!) and being accompanied by considerable performance issues, leaving most of us (I'd love to say all, but would be risking the wrath of the few) with a DLC upgrade that doesn't deliver on many levels.

Do we embrace change and go forward, or remain for the the rest of the game's life with "the same" because change might inconvenience some playstyles?

I think there's a difference between being averse to any change at all, and voicing objection to specific changes that destroy an activity that was enjoyed by a not-insigificant number of players without any apparent benefits to anyone else. Regardless of terrain geometry, those who want to take screenshots of pretty planets and skies can do so.

It's good that its recognised widely that the new tech isn't delivering what was expected, and so it's good to have threads like this that give voice to the specific concerns related to that style of play and it being lost.

It's also not a question of 'inconvenience', but complete loss of the activity and opportunity to play in this way. Change is often good, but throwing away good things to do in the game and ignoring those players who enjoyed that is not. We should avoid conflating specific issues and legitimate complaints with those with a general 'change-averse' mindset.

 

[MacIntoc]

Even at the time of the alpha, the obvious good solution that would have satisfied everyone would have been to keep the old driving model as DA off, the new one as DA on and the old DA as a speed limiter.
I think that the variety of terrain generated would have been enough to provide raceable areas.
I don't know why FDev chose to remove the new model and flatten the surfaces.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I think there's a difference between being averse to any change at all, and voicing objection to specific changes that destroy an activity that was enjoyed by a not-insigificant number of players without any apparent benefits to anyone else. Regardless of terrain geometry, those who want to take screenshots of pretty planets and skies can do so.

It's good that its recognised widely that the new tech isn't delivering what was expected, and so it's good to have threads like this that give voice to the specific concerns related to that style of play and it being lost.

It's also not a question of 'inconvenience', but complete loss of the activity and opportunity to play in this way. Change is often good, but throwing away good things to do in the game and ignoring those players who enjoyed that is not. We should avoid conflating specific issues and legitimate complaints with those with a general 'change-averse' mindset

Odd, that the folk who embrace their own playstyle are first to not read all of a post - but you do you, people....

 

[Rat Catcher]

I don't know why FDev chose to remove the new model and flatten the surfaces.

The new model was removed because there were complaints by some players that the handling of the SRV had changed from the original - so was withdrawn from the alpha and an assurance that it wouldn't appear in the released version was given.

Dr Ross said on the livestream that the 'pimpled' surfaces in alpha were errors in the noise mapping and would be flattened out in the finished product...

Well, it certainly flattened out surfaces in the 'finished' product - so much so that at some point in time the error(s) should be addressed. Although what the vision is for the actual 'final & finished product' is, is something we will have to wait to be unveiled!

 

[Kaocraft]

+1 to this from me. Whatever it is that Frontier was trying to do with the new decal-heavy approach to planet tech, it seems good in theory but the topography is just awful. Fixing the terrain variation is an absolute must at this point. Horizons had much more believable planet surfaces with variation actually based on first principles like gravity, plate tectonics, and material composition. The revised planets don't convey the scope and grandeur of alien worlds at all.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Odd, that the folk who embrace their own playstyle are first to not read all of a post - but you do you, people....

Nah, I'm just pointing out that either you don't really understand how substantially groups are being effected by this, or you're purposefully ignoring it so you can do some wishy washy proselytising about progress.

 

[Kaocraft]

They mainly reduced the polygons to keep the old SRV driving model.

Source: https://youtu.be/i5sS7kKJfHI


Land ho! My name is Joe,
I drive a truck, steam roll.
Strong man, I got a plan,
Sing it all day, from land to land.

Pave, pave, pave the world,
Pave, pave, pave the world.

"Ooh Joe! What have you done?
Your steam roll has spoiled our fun.
Asphyxiation, we're turning blue,
Ooh Joe, what can you do?"

 

[BlackMaze]

The complaints at the time were not about the SRV being more difficult - but that the physics had been altered and made it far easier, along with far too much traction and power. There were also complaints about invisible rocks. You'd need to ask one of the posters though as I can't find the alpha feedback threads any more, but I think guys like @BlackMaze would be able to explain it better

You nailed it

 

[Minack]

Nah, I'm just pointing out that either you don't really understand how substantially groups are being effected by this, or you're purposefully ignoring it so you can do some wishy washy proselytising about progress.

It really is a shame the alpha forums were deleted. The same people left the same sort of comments, and even worse, left their dog vomit in threads that were critical of odyssey back when (in theory) something could have been done to fix it. I say in theory but in reality I think Fdev are actively anti-consumer at this point and no amount of feedback would have prevented the disaster.

 

[Rat Catcher]

It really is a shame the alpha forums were deleted. The same people left the same sort of comments, and even worse, left their dog vomit

Indeed they did, from both sides...

 

[Melvich]

It really is a shame the alpha forums were deleted. The same people left the same sort of comments, and even worse, left their dog vomit in threads that were critical of odyssey back when (in theory) something could have been done to fix it. I say in theory but in reality I think Fdev are actively anti-consumer at this point and no amount of feedback would have prevented the disaster.

I had not realised they'd removed them until I went to look there. It is a shame as we could see just how things have been outright ignored. I don't know about the dog vomit, but its an open forum. There will always be views on everything from everyone, even those who don't know half as much as they think, and those that half know half as much as they'd like.

At least there's almost complete agreement that the planets aren't working as intended, and we will need to await what the future holds. Whether a reroll would fix it now, or in future, remains an open question. have indicated they don't want to though, so at least we know that!

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Indeed they did, from both sides...

Some brought their dog vomit with them... sadly.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

At least there's almost complete agreement that the planets aren't working as intended

Lies, dam lies, and statistics...

The only reason I play today is because we have left behind the boring garbage that was Horizons, self replicating boring madness.

 

[Amy Pendergast]

Lies, dam lies, and statistics...

The only reason I play today is because we have left behind the boring garbage that was Horizons, self replicating boring madness.

Just for information, even FDev has acknowledged that the planet tech does not work as expected. See the number 37 of the Supercruise News.

The only question that's still there is:
What exactly does work/not work as expectect?

 

[Melvich]

Lies, dam lies, and statistics...

The only reason I play today is because we have left behind the boring garbage that was Horizons, self replicating boring madness.

Almost complete agreement, as I said. Outliers are real, and there will always be those who're able to find enjoyment out of all kinds of things, even those that don't include challenging terrain upon which to hone flying skills. This thread is about that though, and amongst those who do look for that; there's almost complete agreement.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Almost complete agreement, as I said. Outliers are real, and there will always be those who're able to find enjoyment out of all kinds of things, even those that don't include challenging terrain upon which to hone flying skills. This thread is about that though, and amongst those who do look for that; there's almost complete agreement.

It's possible to show that 1=2 mathematically, but usually it's because certain mathematical rules are ignored.

Just because you and your mates want it, everyone else should keep quiet and just accept what you say to be true? Are you the god of Elite? No. I don't have to agree with you or your hooning buddies. If the handful of you agree on something, it's not the universe.

 

[Melvich]

It's possible to show that 1=2 mathematically, but usually it's because certain mathematical rules are ignored.

Just because you and your mates want it, everyone else should keep quiet and just accept what you say to be true? Are you the god of Elite? No. I don't have to agree with you or your hooning buddies. If the handful of you agree on something, it's not the universe.

Maths can often be complex, it's so. Ignorance is rife.

When it comes to discussing complex terrain for the purposes of supporting extreme flying, I'm saying it's very clear that Odyssey has failed to deliver anything remotely as good as Horizons in this regard (due to terrain changes), and so this type of game play is no longer possible in Odyssey, and will be removed from Horizons in future. I think this is bad and should be changed.

It's a bit unclear from your little tirade there, so perhaps you could be clearer?

Am I wrong because you're saying Odyssey terrain is equal to or better than Horizons at supporting extreme flying?
Or am I wrong for some other reason?

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Maths can often be complex, it's so. Ignorance is rife.

When it comes to discussing complex terrain for the purposes of supporting extreme flying, I'm saying it's very clear that Odyssey has failed to deliver anything remotely as good as Horizons in this regard (due to terrain changes), and so this type of game play is no longer possible in Odyssey, and will be removed from Horizons in future. I think this is bad and should be changed.

It's a bit unclear from your little tirade there, so perhaps you could be clearer?

Am I wrong because you're saying Odyssey terrain is equal to or better than Horizons at supporting extreme flying?
Or am I wrong for some other reason?

Who promised you your rose garden?

There were other promises made, and they are keeping those. You don't like it because it affects your chosen style of play - or are not really up to adapting to the new environment, like old dogs who, allegedly, can't learn new tricks. So somehow the rest of the community doesn't count in your illusion of "most people agree" when you have no basis for making that statement.

Being peed off doesn't automatically make the product bad, and doesn't give you automatic "listen to" or "agree to" rights. Doesn't give you a pass to make hyperbolic statements that don't get challenged.

So most of your small group agree. Whoopdydoo.

Odyssey terrain is an improvement on Horizons. There are certain (unspecified by fdev) issues including optimization, which they may make good on. Actually, if I were FDev now, I wouldn't give a flying hoot anymore. Glad I'm not them. Hope they come good in the end, but not by catering to a small group of hooners at the expense of the rest of the community.

 

[Melvich]

Who promised you your rose garden?

There were other promises made, and they are keeping those. You don't like it because it affects your chosen style of play - or are not really up to adapting to the new environment, like old dogs who, allegedly, can't learn new tricks. So somehow the rest of the community doesn't count in your illusion of "most people agree" when you have no basis for making that statement.

Being peed off doesn't automatically make the product bad, and doesn't give you automatic "listen to" or "agree to" rights. Doesn't give you a pass to make hyperbolic statements that don't get challenged.

So most of your small group agree. Whoopdydoo.

Odyssey terrain is an improvement on Horizons. There are certain (unspecified by fdev) issues including optimization, which they may make good on. Actually, if I were FDev now, I wouldn't give a flying hoot anymore. Glad I'm not them. Hope they come good in the end, but not by catering to a small group of hooners at the expense of the rest of the community.

You didn't even answer the question....

I don't think anyone expected a rose garden (they'd have been disappointed anyway with the new plastic flora!), but they didn't expect to have their gameplay actually removed. That it was is a problem for them, and me.

Your points about adaptation illustrate how poorly you understand the issue, and an inability to consider it - like an old dog unable to learn new tricks. This ignorance should not be the basis upon which anyone writes off an entire activity enjoyed by hundreds of players, nor should some weird prejudice or faux-outrage at complaints. No hyperbole here.

Calling for terrain to be changed to allow for extreme flying poses no threat to other styles of play. It could even enhance the experience for others and offer the opportunity to do so if they wished. It's not possible in Odyssey now though, and won't be possible in Horizons post-changes. It does mean accepting it's currently broken though, hence the point of the OP and lots of others here in this very thread.

 

[MacIntoc]

Dr Ross said on the livestream that the 'pimpled' surfaces in alpha were errors in the noise mapping and would be flattened out in the finished product...

Looking back, I wonder if that was really an error. It shouldn't have been necessary to touch other aspects of the terrain geometry if it was an artifact. A simple filter to clip the artifacts should have been sufficient. But well... i'm not part of the FDev team, so i probably underestimate the issus.

It's possible to show that 1=2 mathematically, but usually it's because certain mathematical rules are ignored.

Just because you and your mates want it, everyone else should keep quiet and just accept what you say to be true? Are you the god of Elite? No. I don't have to agree with you or your hooning buddies. If the handful of you agree on something, it's not the universe.

In that case, it would have been quite easy to keep both drive models. FDev just took a wrong choice. And i hope they will came back the new model for consol release (i say hope but i don't really have some)