The ethics of crime and punishment?
What does this mean in practice?
Please don't attack defenseless...
- Thread starter TEBORI
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The ethics of crime and punishment?
What does this mean in practice?
OK, go on. What about them?
You tell me. I'm not the one advocating a "blank check" approach towards gankers and than refusing to elaborate on that. Considering how viscious people can get after losing in a pretend spaceship computer game I'll go ahead and presume there is no line you wouldn't cross until given reason otherwise.
Gankers attack defenceless targets in situation where they have very little sporting chances. We strive to ensure they get to enjoy the same experience from a point of view comparable to that of their vitctims.
Questions?
Nope! Glad to have clarification on what you meant by "blank check."
In case there's a next time, feel free to engage me in conversation. It'll go smooth, just like these last couple posts.
It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
And I'm saying that he is not the only one doing this and other things.
Then, if you think I/we have this grand vision of getting Elite rid of gankers, you can also stop right there.
First, I play this game because of the conflicts it offers. So, while I might find another context in which I can get the same thing, I don't want an open universe that's free of any danger.
Second, it's a game, it's not a job (although sometimes it does feel like one), there will be always a time, or a place, or an instance, when no one of us is around. Besides, actually saving cmdrs from an on-going gank is really hard because most of the times their ship is just made of paper. As you seem to hint, it's far more effective to teach / help prevent the issue in the first place and in case you haven't noticed I put as much efforts into that than I do into having fun hunting/chasing outlaws.
Third, as long as this game is on the digital shelves, there will always be an afflux of new players who have yet to find out the resources and help they would need to avoid being ganked.
Only in your world where you have a certain view of what that "ideal" is. Ultimately, I don't really care what you think. You are not my audience. If I were to guess, you might even be my content
"Outside the game"?! Damn, you are so fast at jumping to weird conclusions...
As for "inside the game", I think it would be hard for us to trump the sort of things we have seen from the other side. So, it can't be "the worst" (technically I'm waiting for a well known outlaw to menu log on us and claim that it's fine because XYZ... Now, that would be the new worst and yet another showcase of what hypocrisy is actually about).
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Dude, you asked me to clarify what my point is. I brought up Akuma's post to concretely highlight why I criticize your group and it's members so sharply in this thread and others.
This is all fine and well. I enjoy the insight. We're on the same page here quite a bit.
Only in your world where you have a certain view of what that "ideal" is. Ultimately, I don't really care what you think. You are not my audience. If I were to guess, you might even be my content
What you and members of your group say and do informs me and others what your ideals, bias, and beliefs are. I'm judging that based on my own ideals, bias, and beliefs. And so we have the vigorious, adversarial discussion.
I can say with certainty it's not just my world, bud.
In my experience you never really know what people might do or say. Go to the ganker side for a couple years and find out for yourself!
But in any case Herbrand clarified (finally), so we good.
To be honest, I don't see the sins of outlaws as bad as the sins of lawfuls. Sure, is menu logging to escape destruction lame? Yup. No matter who does it. No meaningful debate to be had there. Would it be hypocricy if I did it? Sure, but it really doesn't rise much further than petty vandalism: easily ignored, fixed, and forgotten.
But with the lawfuls it... doesn't sit well with me. When you have folks bragging about their vast influence in a group like GA (that has a troubled history for sure) and implies so called "gankers" should be worried about it? That signals issues worse than a menu log every day of the week.
No I don't have a monopoly on helping people but I actually help people, get together with them in game to teach them how to escape or land PA shots. I'm actually teaching people how to survive instead of telling them I will protect them knowing that I will inevitably fail.
You know when I came to PC I was so excited to see what the outlaw versus enforcer situation was like over here only to be utterly disappointed. On Xbox, the enforcers (IED) would hunt us down and fight us but we were still good friends at the end of the day. As a matter of fact, I would still do pve missions with some of their members occasionally.
It's really unfortunate that you guys feel like you have to act the way you do. I would love nothing more than to do PvP matches and tournaments with you guys but your bad attitude and dirty tactics actually makes myself and the rest of the outlaw community just want to avoid you.
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I don't know any gankers that have posted up videos where they stream-sniped someone and tried to pass it off as "oh I just happened to run into the person that just happened to have killed me yesterday and just happened to have been streaming their location in a paper exploration ship and yes I totally wasn't expecting them it's just a complete coincidence that I dropped in on the installation they were headed to with my pips set to 0-2-4 and scooted off a bit and remained completely stationary until my bandwidth counter spiked" - even if stream-sniping someone wasn't shady enough, to post up a bragging video about it and acting like that wasn't what they were doing?
I've been rewatching DS9 lately so all I can think of is Garak being like "MY DEAR SISKO, I AM BUT A SIMPLE TAILOR, HOW COULD I POSSIBLY BE CAPABLE OF SUCH AN ACT"
I've been rewatching DS9 lately so all I can think of is Garak being like "MY DEAR SISKO, I AM BUT A SIMPLE TAILOR, HOW COULD I POSSIBLY BE CAPABLE OF SUCH AN ACT"
i see absolutely no point to discuss anything with phisto in the future.
he is not even a pvper. seems just a griefer devotee.
there is no phisto account around in any pvp encounter nor is he mentioned in any terroristic playing attacks in the last 2 years.
its obvious that he just tries to defame our community outside the game.
i tell you something my friend
you failed. period.
and this is the last time i will react on anything from you as long i dont see you in game.
have a nice day.
he is not even a pvper. seems just a griefer devotee.
there is no phisto account around in any pvp encounter nor is he mentioned in any terroristic playing attacks in the last 2 years.
its obvious that he just tries to defame our community outside the game.
i tell you something my friend
you failed. period.
and this is the last time i will react on anything from you as long i dont see you in game.
have a nice day.
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DEBRIEFING
30 Pilots of SPEAR operated over 4 hours.
Thanks everyone who came to the PvP "Party"
Spear Pilots, Allies and Opponents
Fight Reports will be available tomorrow from various pilots. o7
Can confirm @Phisto Sobanii is a pvper and have fought him before. He even fought your Spear goons with me in Riedquat.
We avoid you, Akuma, because you're no fun to fight with.
![[PS4] Filthymick420](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/201/201444.jpg?1555738739){kind=avatar}
Aren't instances limited to how man cmdrs can be in one at one time? Wouldn't have 70 fellow cmdrs significantly limit the likelihood of running into gankers? I could be wrong about this but i feel like i read that on here at some point
70 was the number pvper were present there yesterday in the operation time
SPEAR, GANK, DEVY, EDTR, ROA, PRISM, CODE, FUZE, BRNN and others
@Filthymick420
when tactical blocking is not abused by the outlaws (which we can test now) the instancing works pretty well.
battle instances with 24 ships inside (4 wings of 3 from both sides) are not a problem at all.
in view of 70 people present of course several battles were going on in different instances. the biggest was about 30 ships in one instance though 20 from us and about 10 from the griefer and ganker community. it didnt end well for them. one of our pilots had 6 kills yesterday
SPEAR, GANK, DEVY, EDTR, ROA, PRISM, CODE, FUZE, BRNN and others
@Filthymick420
when tactical blocking is not abused by the outlaws (which we can test now) the instancing works pretty well.
battle instances with 24 ships inside (4 wings of 3 from both sides) are not a problem at all.
in view of 70 people present of course several battles were going on in different instances. the biggest was about 30 ships in one instance though 20 from us and about 10 from the griefer and ganker community. it didnt end well for them. one of our pilots had 6 kills yesterday
Learned something new, good to know
I'm glad you teach people how to PvP and nobody has any beef with that.
We're very well aware that protecting other CMDRs is, due to gameplay and instancing mechanic, an almost impossible task - hence our focus on harassing gankers in superior number wherever we find them.
What is "the way we do"? Attacking gankers?
It's funny that we have this relationship with the russian gankers, where we shoot each other in Open but otherwise do duels and tournaments with them, exactly the way you described.
Youve been saying this a long time akuma, and during that time ive killed over 2500 players at farseer. Nobody respects you as far as they can throw you, so any time you drop a wing of 4 on me, i block you all and continue ganking, then unblock when im done...... and when you drop in a single enforcer for me, i rip their head off and crap down their neck, yourself included. Did you praise Dilix for his fantastic enforcement job lastnight ? Or did he not tell you about this one ?
Source: https://youtu.be/GVVTsE-uC50
OK, so you acuse us of tactical blocking, but you block us when we are disrupting your newbies gank activities.
You can tell what you want about us in SPEAR, but our block list is empty, if we can´t manage to reach x or y station because we get ganked, then maybe we go with another faster ship, ship, ask some friends for scort or maybe try in another moment.
You on the other hand when find impossible to gank because we are there, then block us and that´s all.
For me is a very coward movement.
Which is great. I sincerely wish you much success with this project of yours.
Same goes for the challenge you had, have(?) about giving away LTDs to folks who successfully destroy you.
IIRC, threeofnine once did this livestreamed event in which you had to destroy him before he reached a certain station. I personally gave it my best shot and it was really fun.
I don't think we've ever properly met one another.
In fact, a lot of folks have yet to meet you based on your EDR sightings
A lot of what you may have read about "us" is biased. There is also a ton of missing context.
I mean, I'd take with a grain of salt anything that's coming from folks who don't mind saying things as bad as "I loathe you are still breathing" to one of our pilots. I don't think anyone deserve to hear that, neither should anyone be so upset about a game to resort to that, even if drunk or baked.
We are capable of agreeing on common grounds / arbitrary rules for the benefit of mutual fun. In fact for a long time, we have done (and still do) that with specific groups, and it's fun. Sadly, one such group suddenly started to throw insults and unsubstantiated claims about our group, as well as impersonating us or claiming that we were to blame for their actions,etc. Outside of the game, it's even worse. So, why would we bother trying to be amenable with such players? The ball is on their side: they just need to stop their in-and-out-of-game bad attitude.
Just look at what some of them came up with to rationalize why they have blocked me in-game: "holding a broken CZ instance" during the Code war in Riedquat.
I looked into my player journal and found out that, on the first day of the conflict, on my first ever instance, it only took 1 minutes 30 seconds for one of them to make the bold claim that I was holding a broken instance of a CZ and therefore "abusing" the system. I know nothing about BGS. I was doing recon and anchoring my friends. We eventually left 5 minutes after I first dropped. Then we came back and these folks were still in their broken instance (without anyone of us AFAIR). They did that (complaining about a broken instance) for what looks like almost 30 minutes... They should have just switched to a different CZ, or even go into PG/Solo for that matter. Honestly, we had the same issues of broken CZ (not resetting, or not completing), we didn't blame Fdev's bugs / design mistake on others, we just went to a different CZ or did other things.
If the mere act of dropping into an occupied CZ (to bring your wing, or slow down the progress by dropping mines or whatever, or even try to do the CZ), can put you at risk of being called an abuser and getting blocked, then that's nonsense. If these folks didn't want to be bothered, then why did they play in open in the first place?
To this day, most of them are still blocking me despite the fact that the war has been over for almost 2 months
It's always the same: jumping to conclusions, generalizations, don't do what I do, etc.
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Me, Fusion, Prism, Code, Lorens Reapers and about 50 various other players that all actively avoid you. I'm in all their discords and fly/fight with them regularly, all say the same thing. So yeah, I will say we.
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