It has. Why be able to walk around huge ships if its going to be empty? I assumed id have the ability to put in NPCs by creating characters or hiring randomly generated people. NPC wings have also been discussed in depth in the Design Council and each NPC would react to certain actions done by the player. Im more in line with a "Create a pawn" that doesnt argue or have thoughts of mutiny, but whatever. Im not very happy and i wont be until the single player experience for all intents and purposes mirrors the multiplayer aspect to a point a person wouldnt really think there is a difference unless they look for hollow icons.
Please don't neglect mechanics for everyone by focusing on pure multiplayer content!
- Thread starter Arubeto
- Start date
It has. Why be able to walk around huge ships if its going to be empty? I assumed id have the ability to put in NPCs by creating characters or hiring randomly generated people. NPC wings have also been discussed in depth in the Design Council and each NPC would react to certain actions done by the player. Im more in line with a "Create a pawn" that doesnt argue or have thoughts of mutiny, but whatever. Im not very happy and i wont be until the single player experience for all intents and purposes mirrors the multiplayer aspect to a point a person wouldnt really think there is a difference unless they look for hollow icons.
I can only think of a few situations where it would help:
1) If a number of ships are limited, maximising each ship's potential might be nice...
-But why is the number limited? 4 to a wing.... Wing vs. Wing CQC with big*** ships. Why? Just Why?
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2) If a player does not own a ship of relevent calibre for a situation. Say, only owns a Sidey but wants to fly something bigger or get a taste.
-You might let your friend tag along, but would you really want a noob in your ship? Not in my quarter billion annie.
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3) A player can't pay his insurance claim and needs cash before regaining his ship...
- I just thought of this on the spur of the moment, but I actually like this idea.
- Imagine, you flew without money to cover your insurance, you could put your services forward as gunner/manager etc.
- You join his ship and earn credits (say, 5-25% or whathaveyou).
- You pay your insurance and finally get your ship back.
- Hmm... Deferred insurance paymets FTW.
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4) Because some people like to shoot and others pilot and still others like to be engineers.
- Before you dis multiplayer. Try the 2.1 alpha of Star Citizen. I have my own ships in that game, but I'm more likely to hitch a ride with someone else and handle their shields/weapons. It's really a lot more fun than I thought it would be.
It's fantastic when you fly to a destination and three of you get out of the ship together and help/defend each other and complete the mission as a team.
Actually, it's more fun than flying my own ship by myself, even if there is a disadvantage with both players being on one ship: Some people play for fun rather than min/maxing.
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Also, given elite's dodgy instancing mechanic. Wouldn't it be good that the players don't have to worry about being separated. LOL.
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But seriously though, there are a lot of things that would please the player base more than a minority mechanic with serious programmatical, logistical and system difficulties attached.
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No, I'm not ignoring the lone wolves in Open, they have exactly the same option as everyone else when it comes to multicrew. If they chose not to take part in it, that is their own choice and they can't blame anyone else for that. 'But I don't have a set schedule' 'I don't know anyone' aren't legitimate responses either, this forum and other sites have people looking to play with others in the game right now, so why exactly are you playing solo in Open again? Oh, right, personal choice to play solo in the active multiplayer area of the game.
FD hasn't catered to the multiplayer crowd in Elite Dangerous YET, do you realize that, despite all the whining about how they doing just that? We have the ability to wing up, that's it, nothing more. Again, FD promotes this game as an MMO, it's called by them THE Online Multiplayer Experience! And for multiplayer we can wing up! YEAH! NO OTHER GAME...er..hang on...wait a minute, ALL other online games allow that, what the hell, where's this THE Online Multiplayer Experience bit at? HOW exactly has FD been catering to the multiplayer crowd again? What exactly does the multiplayer crowd get exclusive access to? Winging up? And....what? Elite Dangerous is still a very single player oriented game, despite the adverts calling it a multiplayer game, it's really not much of a multiplayer game at all. FD has quite literally catered to the solo crowd to an extreme that no other does, they've even given them a mode where they will literally never had to encounter another player ever, even though it's an online only game. Catering to the multiplayer crowd has been giving us Wings....
NPC wing/crew would be nice, but it's not needed in a multiplayer game, usually they are avoided in multiplayer games because they rather go against the entire multiplayer bit, sorta like offering steak at a vegan picnic. NPCs that work with the player are usually restricted to single player campaign games or multiplayer games that offer that, like SW:TOR, where most of the game is spent doing your own personal storyline. No storyline in Elite Dangerous, and the NPCs offered in the past games literally did nothing but eat your cash and prevent you from flying your ship if you didn't have enough of them to crew it, they did nothing else. I'm good with them adding that in again, NPCs that do jack but sit there and eat your cash, without whom you can't fly your ship if it's a multicrew ship, which would be anything but the single seaters pretty much, you know, Viper, Sidey, Eagle, Vulture, Courier, yeah, I'm good with that, are you? Many in this thread want NPCs to just sit there so they can look at them, or so they claim right now, but the fact is, if they just sit there and do nothing, they'll whine about the fact that they just sit there and do nothing while real player multicrew does stuff, that isn't fair!
So best bet, forget the NPCs, they've never done them to actually DO anything but eat up money and restrict usage of ships, while real human multicrew will make any ship better. Making NPCs that can be as useful as humans...well, anyone that can do that will be rich, because no one has ever been successful in that. The NPCs in Elite Dangerous are actually very good, and the general consensus is that they suck, you want that manning your ship? Even CIG isn't going that far, they are clear, you can fly solo in a multicrew ship but without real live humans manning the stations, you'll never do as well as ships that have them, that's how it's designed, multiplayer game after all.
Nitek [pl]
Banned
Yes it should have been built as a multiplayer game, was and will be. You can do nothing about it. Forum is also multiplayer, people are here so you should quit ;]
It existed in the older Elite games as a form of limitation or impediment, rather than enhancement.
Bigger ships should logically require more crew to operate. But that's not easy to simulate, given the fact that
a) You can already operate all of the ships functions from the pilot's seat
b) All ships are essentially THE SAME, except that they carry more or less stuff, have more or less shields/armor, and have different turn rates/acceleration and speed. But other than that, they are about the same, just with tweaks. It's nothing like the difference between flying an F-15 and an A380....
So the old Elite went about adding another layer of simple complexity (oxymoron) to flying the bigger ships by requiring the pilot to hire additional NPC crews before the ship can even take off. As I said, it is an impediment. It's an additional challenge to flying a big ship, by making you scan the bulletin boards for hard-luck NPC spacers who want a ride out of town.
It could work in ED. It can fill the same role of making a big ship more difficult to own. You'll need to find the prerequisite NPC crew, and also pay them a stipend to retain their services (and for your ship to fly).
But it can also be enhanced such that NPC crews can offer the ship added functionality.
Just a simple example: An NPC co-pilot could also give you an auto-dock, or auto-pilot function. You can buy a module and have it take up an internal bay. Or for the bigger ship, the NPC crew which requires a weekly salary, can also do the dock job for you. You save an internal cargo slot for that. But that's the privilege of flying a big ship, right?
Another example: NPC crews can also act as a sort of AFMU. They can effect repairs on your ship's module, but perhaps at a slower speed. But they're your crew, so you won't need "ammo" or reloads.
Perhaps having NPC crew onboard could also mean that your scans, be it normal ID scan, Cargo scans, KW scans, or FSW scans, will simply run faster. Or perhaps it could mean that you don't even have to face the target to scan it, unlike now. All you have to do is be in scan range.
All of these are simply ideas on how an NPC multicrew could add to your game.
Of course, player multi-crews can do the same. The only problem, as many players see it, is the boredom factor for the players who're not the pilot. What will they be doing out of combat? Play Candy Crush?
And then there's the trust factor. Would you want someone else in your ship who could potentially be incompetent or malicious, thereby directly or indirectly causing its destruction?
But really, NPCs will be there mostly for immersion. Turn your head in a ship like the Anaconda, and see your co-pilot there in his seat doing whatever it is that co-pilots do. Maybe some crew chatter while they're at it. I dunno about you, but it gives me the sense of flying a large ship, and not just a giant fighter plane.
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You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that a preference for single player gaming is somehow indicative of an overall preference to avoid interaction with other human beings.
When I bought the game I bought it for the singleplayer mode that was back then still supposed to be a thing where multiplayer still was meant to be optional.
Then they scrapped singleplayer and when I was about to ask for my money back they went all (in a general forum post, not personally to me) "please give us time, it will be worth it" and I made the mistake of doing that.
Still waiting for that decision to be worth it.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
indeed..... Elite is marketed as an MMO. It is also marketed as a single player game, basically it is attempting to cover both camps, which is an admirable goal. As said earlier I have no issues at all with MP content. It saddens me however that some on here seem to be against the idea of npcs to cover the roles OPTIONALLY... even tho this was outlined since day 1.
if a player wants to only play with other players, they lose nothing by having optional NPCs. however if a player cant for what ever reason use multiplayer, then npcs are vital. and as for people saying currently ED does not offer stuff for multiplayer, i would argue that wings are a HUGE addition for the multiplayer, and should be a huge addition to the person on their own as well..... i cant think of a single flight game which does not offer wingmen.
Hell iirc even the single player training modules offer wingmen in at least 1 mission (i may be miss remembering)
if you want to split hairs, single player is actually listed before multiplayer, which is listed before mmo on the steam store.
therefore the 1st thing a prospective buyer will read is single player, and MMO is way down the list.
PS not relavent to the PvE side of things, but given war thunder is marketed as an MMO, it is clear to me the definition of MMO is very loose and fast
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Exactly this. The game I backed as soon as the Kickstart started is not the one I eventually got.
They Are trying to keep up though. Both games were in planning stage at the same point in the past, both had to use similar features for their multiplayer space arcades, the only difference is -- one of them has the abundance of funds, which it spends bravely, while the other has to keep up with cheaper solutions, because, um.. philosophy. The fact that ED had planned for something doesn't exclude that they are trying to keep up right Now.
Sure, the "stuff", as you put it, was mentioned. In different rooms, see. Across different cities and gaming companies. Years before ED Kickstarter began. Obviously people want economy, landing on planets, warp travel, engaging NPC's, multiplayer bells and whistles and FPS functionality. You can't really come up with anything else, lol. It's all dreamed about for decades.
As for the thread itself, I tend to agree with consensus. My own view is this -- they're trying to include this feature so that the marketing department could claim they also (like SC) have it, while, in reality it will be a cosmetic addition at best, lacking reason to exist within the game's architecture.
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Well multicrew could be interesting even in SP. like AI crewmember goes SRV and you have to protect him with your ship. Or missions where you have to play the gunner on a courvette flying into a combat zone, or man the fighter in the Ships fighterbay and keep the big ship free from fighter while ot focus fires on another big ship.
IF someone at FD wants the multicrew aspect could add more than just NPC's sitting next to you doing some stuff. It could also put the player in that role. But that requires some proper desing of these apsects.
IF someone at FD wants the multicrew aspect could add more than just NPC's sitting next to you doing some stuff. It could also put the player in that role. But that requires some proper desing of these apsects.
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this what what I thought back to when i saw multicrew mentioned.. Anyone who claims to not understand why some may be disappointed after initially seeing FD announce multicrew and then later down the line seeing them clear up what they mean by multicrew should read this and then come back.
Yes the DDA say it is speculative, but, to post the below, and then announce Multicrew as a big headline, and not immediately inform us that it bears no relation to the DDF multicrew was a mean thing to do imo.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8258
Basic Ship Crew Functionality
Crew are either human or mechanical
Mechanical crew are not sentient – they are basically specialised robots capable of carrying out specific activities
Crew have a service contract
The service contract describes the remuneration package
Remuneration is defined as a credit salary (which may be zero based on circumstance) per time period
In the case of mechanical crew the remuneration package describes the maintenance schedule which must be paid for and carried out when docked
Crew can be acquired at docks or through missions and events
Once obtained, a remuneration package is automatically deducted from the commander’s credit account at the beginning of each time period; pay is in advance
At any time crew service contracts can be terminated
Terminated crew will disembark at the next habitable dock; the commander is reimbursed for any time not served
Mechanical crew that are terminated will become cargo canisters
If no cargo space is available they will be dismantled (the commander will be warned)
Mechanical crew in cargo-form do not require maintenance, and can be activated (re-hired) at any time
Failure to follow the maintenance schedule for mechanical crew increases the chance of malfunction
Crew have a type that determines how they may be used:
Gunner: rated to operate turret weaponry
Engineer: rated to repair internal modules
Pilot: rated to pilot vessels
Marine: rated to repel boarders (requires ship internals update)
Each ship has a maximum number of crew slots for each type
When crew slots are filled the commander has access to a number of benefits based on crew type:
Gunner: turret weapons are more accurate and can switch targets to make opportune attacks; the more gunners available, the more turret weapons can gain these benefits at the same time
Engineer: damaged modules will be repaired; the more engineers available the more modules can be repaired at the same time.
Pilot: the commander can initiate defensive manoeuvres, chase target and travel to location orders
Marine: marines will automatically engage ship invaders (requires ship internals update)
Crew have an ability level; this determines the effectiveness of their actions:
Gunner: ability determines the accuracy increase
Engineer: ability determines the speed of repair
Pilot: ability determines the quality of flying
Marine: ability determines combat effectiveness (requires ship internals update)
We think this covers at a very basic level what a commander should expect to get from a crew. However, this feature has lots of potential for increased scope should it be deemed worthwhile.
That are some strange features, I need to pay salary to some robots 
Further it looks like it will create just more needs for grinding credits :/
Better would be something every classic MMO has, buy a robot, gian XP for it, by the AI learning patterns imporving the robot. still some kind of grind, yet not focused on credits (again)
Further it looks like it will create just more needs for grinding credits :/
Better would be something every classic MMO has, buy a robot, gian XP for it, by the AI learning patterns imporving the robot. still some kind of grind, yet not focused on credits (again)
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How do you deduce that?
One thing is clear from that bullet point list of the DDF alone - that the game was intended to be a lot bigger than it turned out in the "end" (today's state). We can rage and whine about it, but the matter of the fact is, that apparently they were not able to do all that in the available time. We have, for instance, no more than two character models in the whole game as of now, without faces even, not to mention any multi-crew mechanic. Multi-crew as is announced for season 2 and has similar roles to those described in the DDF list, marine being the obvious exclusion, as without "space legs" it won't have a game mechanic in season 2.
What's to say that there won't be some form of AI crews eventually? I know that they said the focus for now is on the multiplayer multi-crew. But then, defining and implementing that mechanic in the first place is the basis for everything else. They could still add hired AI multi-crews later. But it really doesn't make sense to build a firmly single player mechanic for multi crews and then transfer it into a multi payer mode. The 31st century equivalent of a "door gunner" would die of boredom with Elite's current mechanics, so multiplayer has to be the more immediate focus. If and how AI crews fit into this has to be decided after the mechanic is defined, if it's not possible to do it all at once. Building a fun AI multi crew around the player mutlti crew mechanics should also be more easily accomplished than retroactively making multi crew mechanic designed for AI fun for players. The AI doesn't complain about boredom.
Regarding the OPs fear of single player mechanics being neglected - practically every mechanic in the game is currently "neglected" or rather unfinished. But we're getting some persistent NPCs in 2.1 and AI fighters are announced. So there may be hired crews at a later point. Maybe not before walking in ships is a thing? We'll see.
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Hey guys I was reading all this text wall and something EVIL went through my mind...what if Fdev are thinking about making multi-seat ships only flyable when there's a complete crew inside????
WOW! realism apart... that would cause the biggest tear flow of videogame's history!!!!!!
WOW! realism apart... that would cause the biggest tear flow of videogame's history!!!!!!
Hey guys I was reading all this text wall and something EVIL went through my mind...what if Fdev are thinking about making multi-seat ships only flyable when there's a complete crew inside????
WOW! realism apart... that would cause the biggest tear flow of videogame's history!!!!!!
haha, that would kill a lot ships like these small 2 seat vessels, and most people would return to smaller ships. At leats when his crew can't be NPC's. and if they are NPC's you just need to hire it's nothing that C-bills can't fix.
Nitek [pl]
Banned
Please stop blackmailing all of us because you backed something. I spent hundreds on ED and what?
"Ooh I backed elite so I want it to be single player." Get a refund and that's it.
"Wings" and "Multicrew" are not multiplayer content.
These are mechanics that make that multiplayer content available.
As long as you can accomplish everything in the game alone, there is no multiplayer content.
You want to "enjoy everything the game has to offer without the need of teaming up with other players".
It sounds like you do not want multiplayer content in the game.
These are mechanics that make that multiplayer content available.
As long as you can accomplish everything in the game alone, there is no multiplayer content.
You want to "enjoy everything the game has to offer without the need of teaming up with other players".
It sounds like you do not want multiplayer content in the game.
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NPC's are needed. They really are.
Me and my mates have been talking. The idea of multicrew sounds cool but why would we all jump in one Anaconda when we could just have multiple Anacondas?
If we could walk around our ships, it would make it pretty interesting but obviously we're not getting that for a while.
What exactly are we going to benefit from multicrew apart from having a friend launch a fighter?
But why would said friend want to fly a "glass cannon" when he could fly a much more powerful vessel?
So many questions.
A lot of these features seem that they would benefit massively from hiring NPC's....
Me and my mates have been talking. The idea of multicrew sounds cool but why would we all jump in one Anaconda when we could just have multiple Anacondas?
If we could walk around our ships, it would make it pretty interesting but obviously we're not getting that for a while.
What exactly are we going to benefit from multicrew apart from having a friend launch a fighter?
But why would said friend want to fly a "glass cannon" when he could fly a much more powerful vessel?
So many questions.
A lot of these features seem that they would benefit massively from hiring NPC's....
Hey guys I was reading all this text wall and something EVIL went through my mind...what if Fdev are thinking about making multi-seat ships only flyable when there's a complete crew inside????
WOW! realism apart... that would cause the biggest tear flow of videogame's history!!!!!!
Haha
That would mean actively locking solo players out. Much as that would probably "make sense" for large ships, this is a game and such a troll move is probably beyond Frontier.But I expect them to attach "artificial" advantages to operating a ship with a multi crew. There was the comment that a multi crew operated ship would be comparable in strenght (?) to multiple single crew ships. This comment leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Whatever was meant, a balance in strength of one multi-crew vessel vs. several comparable single pilot vessels won't naturally be the case, unless multi crewing brings some notable advantages in the ships capabilities over what we have now as a solo pilot.
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