Please fix the Alt F4 exploit
- Thread starter Knorlac
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I think we are discussing two different things now.
It is possible for Frontier to find out who pulled the plug or used Alt F4, because one of the clients stop communicating with their matchmaking servers.
This means they could go trough their logs and see if somebody repeatedly uses this method, then put some sort of punishment on him.
Other p2p games do it and they lock such players out of their online services for a certain amount of time (e.g. Dark Souls).
Frontier could lock the ability to use open mode on the clients of these players, so they would be stuck with solo where they can't use the exploit.
However this would require a lot of manual work from Frontiers staff and I doubt they could do more than occasional controls.
The other thing that is suggested, that a NPC ship magically appears on the client of one of the players to imitate the player that exploited, is not possible. It doesn't matter if that ship would be AI controlled or just hover stationary in space.
It is possible for Frontier to find out who pulled the plug or used Alt F4, because one of the clients stop communicating with their matchmaking servers.
This means they could go trough their logs and see if somebody repeatedly uses this method, then put some sort of punishment on him.
Other p2p games do it and they lock such players out of their online services for a certain amount of time (e.g. Dark Souls).
Frontier could lock the ability to use open mode on the clients of these players, so they would be stuck with solo where they can't use the exploit.
However this would require a lot of manual work from Frontiers staff and I doubt they could do more than occasional controls.
The other thing that is suggested, that a NPC ship magically appears on the client of one of the players to imitate the player that exploited, is not possible. It doesn't matter if that ship would be AI controlled or just hover stationary in space.
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Oh, man, you just have no clue what you are talking about. "crash handler". They already have a crash handler. But you can remove a process from an OS without any process code getting executed or you wouldn't be able to get rid of "frozen" programs. And you can always just press the power button
And on networking issues, sure, they can try to figure it out but some manual log file analisys for some specific incidents. Let's see where it gets us with support ticket backlog going back months or so I heard And they can't get a conclusive proof, only some probability analysis indicating that CMDR Kurush's Cat might be cheating. Networking issues are happening all the time when you are playing - just check the log file yourself. You will see all kinds of unexpected disconnects and unexpected lag issues there.- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
In a simple Alt-F4 situation - yes. In a more complex "network jummer" situation - absolutely no as you can actually DC a specific player from you.
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Yep, no easy answers to this one (except from the backseat programmers)
If it was up to me I'd put in a system for reporting players who cheat, and then block them.
Oh, wait...
If it was up to me I'd put in a system for reporting players who cheat, and then block them.
Oh, wait...
Yes, but that requires more knowledge than the simple Alt F4. You can never prevent all forms of cheating anyway.
The bigger problem is to have the staff to check all the disconnects in the logs...
Thanks, nice foresight there
I'l just block them before they Combat log right?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Okay I'm actually worried about this being unfixable now.
I've not worried about anything else before - but this has the potential to make it all pointless.
Now I get what people were on about worrying about the P2P architecture... Hmmm.
For the first time I'd really like someone from FD to chime in please..
I've not worried about anything else before - but this has the potential to make it all pointless.
Now I get what people were on about worrying about the P2P architecture... Hmmm.
For the first time I'd really like someone from FD to chime in please..
Perfect, now we just need the people who find the game pointles to head the other way and then we can finally start enjoying the game we wanted
They seem to be rather think though and can't grasp that they have nothing to catch here. I guess that's the reason ED would be better without them, who needs lots thick and aggressive people flying around?
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To those who think this is unfixable... You are very wrong.
Best example would be Day Z. It has many servers unlike Elite. But it works with a central hive server for your character, meaning no matter which (public) server you join, it will be the exact same char with exact same stuff on it. Day Z also had this huge problem in the mod already where ppl indeed logged off the moment someone shot a bullet their way.
It got solved pretty quickly by simply leaving the char in the world for 30 seconds when logging off, making sure that ppl had to secure their log out place. If someone does log out in a fight, you simply kill their char easily because it's just standing there.
This succesfully prevented players from combat logging.
So this problem is very easily solved and should also be solved, as ppl who do this do not belong in open.
Best example would be Day Z. It has many servers unlike Elite. But it works with a central hive server for your character, meaning no matter which (public) server you join, it will be the exact same char with exact same stuff on it. Day Z also had this huge problem in the mod already where ppl indeed logged off the moment someone shot a bullet their way.
It got solved pretty quickly by simply leaving the char in the world for 30 seconds when logging off, making sure that ppl had to secure their log out place. If someone does log out in a fight, you simply kill their char easily because it's just standing there.
This succesfully prevented players from combat logging.
So this problem is very easily solved and should also be solved, as ppl who do this do not belong in open.
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Yeah, worth reiterating (again) that saying it is "unfixable" is just lazy thinking. If you disagree then read the dozen or so proposals for alternatives. Nothing is perfect.
True, but nothing is doable without a complete rewrite of the game either. When ED2 comes out maybe then if they elect to make it a Client/Server game... Where the server does all the work, and clients just access the server. Like Eve or Wow or such, but til then... Naw, wont happen.
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>but nothing is doable without a complete rewrite of the game either.
You didn't think that statement through, did you.
All that's needed on the client side is some communication with a game server, not an entire rewrite of the game.
You didn't think that statement through, did you.
All that's needed on the client side is some communication with a game server, not an entire rewrite of the game.
Wrong. Nothing needs to be rewritten lol... It's a simple log out delay... Your comment makes no sense, you do not know how programming works, which I don't hold against you, but nonetheless, you are wrong.
There is not a single reason to not fix this tbh, not a single.
You must be trolling or just clueless about all the details provided earlier. Where do you expect your ship would persist for 15/30 sec when you DC?
ROFL I've coded software for 20+ years, everything from games to accounting software. I do know how coding works, and network coding especially. Peer2peer is RARELY used for these types of games, because of ALL the arguments people are making in these threads. Its primarly used for fps/rts games, where people just connect and play a match or matches and then find new matches.
It IS the most cost effective proposal because you eliminate the need for the huge/superfast/tons of processing power/memory SERVER that a client/server game requires NOT to mention supporting oh say 100,000 people connecting to said server simultaneously, the bandwidth requirements, etc etc.... It Is a MASSIVE undertaking. So yeah, 1. the whole program would have to be rewritten to go away from peer2peer, and 2. FD would have to invest 100's of thousands of dollars in servers AND make the server software to support it, since it doesn't exist at this time at all.
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Let's see.
- A decent dedicated server with a 1Gbps connection for about £50 a month. This can be the "games server". Buy 2 or 3 for redundancy.
- A couple of hundred lines of code to provide 'telemetry' (as the devs like to call it) in combat
- Let the telemetry ping the games server every 5 seconds with data, call it a arbitrary 500 byte message
- Even with all 300K players online, in combat, the server could deal with that trivially.
You then have a method (and valuable data) to evolve the game mechanics.
It's hardly "hundreds and thousands of dollars", is it. The main cost would be the programmer time and it wouldn't be a huge amount of man hours.
So, as the holy hand grenade of Antioch goes, you're "right off".
- A decent dedicated server with a 1Gbps connection for about £50 a month. This can be the "games server". Buy 2 or 3 for redundancy.
- A couple of hundred lines of code to provide 'telemetry' (as the devs like to call it) in combat
- Let the telemetry ping the games server every 5 seconds with data, call it a arbitrary 500 byte message
- Even with all 300K players online, in combat, the server could deal with that trivially.
You then have a method (and valuable data) to evolve the game mechanics.
It's hardly "hundreds and thousands of dollars", is it. The main cost would be the programmer time and it wouldn't be a huge amount of man hours.
So, as the holy hand grenade of Antioch goes, you're "right off".
Man, you're smart! You should just make your own game and host it! Frontier will surely lose out if they had to compete against you!
Perfect, now we just need the people who find the game pointles to head the other way and then we can finally start enjoying the game we wanted
Hmm. Think you might have misunderstood me slightly old boy.
I've yet to actually engage in PvP of any sort. Ever. I'm out in the sticks enjoying myself wildly (in Open).
My concern is for the good of the game at large.
Lots of people want to be pirates, killers, vigilantes. Those roles are part and parcel of the larger game and crucial to a functioning player-driven ecosystem that lasts.
I want to be scared witless by doing a trade run somewhere I think these folks are. If logging becomes so widespread that these folks give up that goes away. The fact that there is a 15 second timer on client logout is fairly unambiguous evidence that logging out during combat is not what FD want. This breaks that and seems tough to fix for sensible technical reasons that others have detailed. That worries me and I'd like some reassurance. That's all.
Strangely I am an absolute thug in real life and you'd cross the street..
Except it doesn't work that way. It's ok, believe whatever you want to believe in your own little world there... Here in reality "I Know" how things work.
Have a GREAT Happy Day
I know I will.- Status