PLEASE make monkeys and apes more willing to climb

[Swjosdotschka]

First off: I know there are tutorials on how to make your climbing structures more likely to be used. But I don't want a complex study on this. In my opinion, animals like monkeys and apes, who are basically unhappy on the ground, should just use climbing structures by themselfs and prefere higher sleeping places and such.

So please, Devs, can you tweak animal behaviour on this subject? I just spend hours on an habitat with climbing structures that gives my cappuchin monkeys a lot to do. I even placed enrichment items on the plattforms. Yet they prefere the same enrichment items on the ground.

 

[Urufu1997]

I agree. It's good how it is with the Bonobos (at least in my Zoo) but Orangutans do almost never climb and I think I saw the Gorillas in my Main-Zoo only use the Climbing Structures that they need to use to go inside (except one Time when I saw one of them on the Climbing Structure that is outside). I know that Gorillas don't really climb as much as other Primates but it would be good to make it at least a little bit more likely for them to climb. I'm also pretty sure that even though Bornean Orangutans climb less than Sumatran Orangutans, they climb way more often than they do in the Game

 

[DrBurrito]

I agree that willingness to climb and time spent on climbing space after the initial climb should be revised for some of the existing animals on the roster. This is going to be a problem especially if animals like sloths and koalas are to be added in the future. I believe they went with the original roster choices keeping this in mind, so that the ones that would look too awkward on the ground all the time would be added after improvements on climbing is complete.

The current species on the roster, even the orangutan, do ok-ish with the current code (other than bugs and hitboxes that prevent them from climbing), but something like a koala would require a different code. In the wild orangutans are almost entirely arboreal but they do ok-ish in the game considering many zoos don't provide as much climbing space for them or stimulate them enough to climb/spend time on climbing spaces as much (there are of course exceptions).

The same logic applies to swimming/diving. The species chosen for the original roster and the first few DLC's do ok-ish without diving even if they are animals that spend most of their time in and under water (like crocodilians). This is because those animals have characteristic surface swimming behavior for extended periods of time even if they are submerged more than they are on the surface of the water (like gharials). However the characteristic surface locomotion allows for plausible animation sets and doesn't make the player notice much awkwardness. Penguins for instance are better known for their torpedo-like bolting underwater even if they spend less time submerged than crocodilians, so they would require an animation set for that behavior. This is why I believe penguins and other species that would direly need underwater swimming animations were left for later DLC's after diving and submerged swimming is added to the game. Just like how advanced arboreal locomotion is delayed as explained above.

That being said, we can only guess and hope these changes and improvements will one day be implemented, both for existing animals and future additions.

 

[Moonfox]

Is anyone here any good at coding/programming? I have no idea how it works, but surely it can’t be too hard to change the likelihood of an event - can they change the codes so that arboreal animals default climb? For example, an orangutan with green bars for food/water/etc should have 90% chance of being on a climbing frame/in a tree, a chimp might be more like 60%, a lion 5%, etc. Arboreal animals should always sleep in raised platforms if they are offered too.

 

[sympatrick]

The game does need a revision when it comes to climbing.

-Some animals, like orangutans, don't spend enough time on climbing space.
-Others, like giant pandas don't have any climbing need when they should.
-While others, like the Chinese pangolin, don't even have the animations when they should have animations for climbing and a small climbing space need.

Each animal's 1) willingness to climb, 2) their need to climb (space requirement) and 3) their ability to climb (animations) should be revised. Some animals that would climb less, like tigers, lions, jaguars and gorillas spend way too much time on climbing spaces when other species that should be spending more time on them, don't.

 

[Ursidae]

First off: I know there are tutorials on how to make your climbing structures more likely to be used. But I don't want a complex study on this. In my opinion, animals like monkeys and apes, who are basically unhappy on the ground, should just use climbing structures by themselfs and prefere higher sleeping places and such.

So please, Devs, can you tweak animal behaviour on this subject? I just spend hours on an habitat with climbing structures that gives my cappuchin monkeys a lot to do. I even placed enrichment items on the plattforms. Yet they prefere the same enrichment items on the ground.

The updated hitboxes definitely messed up some climbing animations and rates, but I agree with the OP 100% given they didn't climb enough before the hitbox changes as well. This is one of the features of the game that needs polishing.

 

[NL_Mutso]

I even placed enrichment items on the plattforms. Yet they prefere the same enrichment items on the ground

Interesting, nice way to test something out.

I think in general a lot of behaviors needs to be tweaked as well.

Is there a difference between certain types of platforms. If you use the basic ones, do they use those more often compared to self created ones?

 

[Espinal]

Nice post. I noticed the same when playing. Some animals that need to climb more don't climb as much as they should. Climbing does indeed require some attention. It is probably the most awkward feature in the game with both inconsistency between animals and animations teleporting sometimes.

 

[Espinal]

but I agree with the OP 100% given they didn't climb enough before the hitbox changes as well.

That's interesting. This might account for some of it then. But even in old YT videos I watched, some animals didn't climb as much as they should have like you siad.

 

[Urufu1997]

Nice post. I noticed the same when playing. Some animals that need to climb more don't climb as much as they should. Climbing does indeed require some attention. It is probably the most awkward feature in the game with both inconsistency between animals and animations teleporting sometimes.

Don't forget the Clipping. Sometimes even trough Walls. I would really like a Update for it which also lets some Animals climb more often

 

[NL_Mutso]

I only hope if they decide to improve this, the "incorrect escaping animals" problem doesn't show up again.

 

[-LUCA-]

First off: I know there are tutorials on how to make your climbing structures more likely to be used. But I don't want a complex study on this. In my opinion, animals like monkeys and apes, who are basically unhappy on the ground, should just use climbing structures by themselfs and prefere higher sleeping places and such.

So please, Devs, can you tweak animal behaviour on this subject? I just spend hours on an habitat with climbing structures that gives my cappuchin monkeys a lot to do. I even placed enrichment items on the plattforms. Yet they prefere the same enrichment items on the ground.

I had designed a really big habitat with climbing structures and platforms for my orangutans over a barren area, most of it being over water. The sides were filled with foliage and viewing spots for guests. Almost all their enclosure was covered with platforms, basically. The land area was so that it fulfills their space requirement and food stations. Even their bedding was above ground. But for some reason they rarely used their arboreal space, which was very disappointing after all that effort.

Despite my effort at forcing their AI to perform natural behaviors, they chose to spend most of their time on the ground in their relatively less desirable ground level. This showed me they are actually coded to spend a lot of time on the ground like gorillas. I support this thread 100% and I hope in the future we will get more variety between the times animals spend on climbing space.

 

[-LUCA-]

The game does need a revision when it comes to climbing.

-Some animals, like orangutans, don't spend enough time on climbing space.
-Others, like giant pandas don't have any climbing need when they should.
-While others, like the Chinese pangolin, don't even have the animations when they should have animations for climbing and a small climbing space need.

Each animal's 1) willingness to climb, 2) their need to climb (space requirement) and 3) their ability to climb (animations) should be revised. Some animals that would climb less, like tigers, lions, jaguars and gorillas spend way too much time on climbing spaces when other species that should be spending more time on them, don't.

Nice categorization and break down of the issue. I hope your comment gets noticed by the developers, it is very well put.

 

[ReptoMin]

Like I said on the Jaguar thread, a lot of the animals need this review of the code that determines how often they use the structures and how long they stay on them when they do so. It doesn't have to be directly proportional to the space requirements either. For instance a tiny animal like the capuchin has a smaller requirement due to its size, but it should spend more time on the structures. Or an animal can have 0 space requirement for climbing, but those species too should vary in their likelihood and duration of time spent on structures. Another thing that comes to my mind is, the difference in how much time a bear cub and an adult would spend. All these details would add character to the animals and give more uniqueness to them, something almost everybody wants from the game. Personalities and unique behaviors.

I had designed a really big habitat with climbing structures and platforms for my orangutans over a barren area, most of it being over water. The sides were filled with foliage and viewing spots for guests. Almost all their enclosure was covered with platforms, basically. The land area was so that it fulfills their space requirement and food stations. Even their bedding was above ground. But for some reason they rarely used their arboreal space, which was very disappointing after all that effort.

Despite my effort at forcing their AI to perform natural behaviors, they chose to spend most of their time on the ground in their relatively less desirable ground level. This showed me they are actually coded to spend a lot of time on the ground like gorillas. I support this thread 100% and I hope in the future we will get more variety between the times animals spend on climbing space.

I feel your pain. I have the same issues with some of the animals. Orangutans like you said should spend most of their time on those structures, especially when motivated to do so, with enrichment and bedding. They shouldn't get down the moment their enrichment and sleeping business is finished.

 

[random goat]

Just wanted to bump this thread a bit in hope of getting a response from devs (kinda naive I guess) or more insight regarding how difficult it'd be to increase some animals' willingness to climb. If you look for realism, it's a bit off-putting to even start creating exhibits for mainly orangutans, red pandas, capuchin monkeys and koalas, who spend most of their time on trees. After one year, I haven't included any of these animals in any of my zoos solely for this very reason. Frontier has done a fantastic job with the climbing system and animations. There's even a climbing area requirements system in place, and I wonder if it could be used/tweaked to also determine how much time animals would spend on trees.
Take this as an example (with invented figures):
One animal would need 160 m2 climbing area and 40 m2 ground area. This would translate into this animall spending 80% of its time on trees/climbing frames.

This would probably need heavy programming but imo doesn't look absurdly unfeasiable.

 

[Danny_zoo]

First off: I know there are tutorials on how to make your climbing structures more likely to be used. But I don't want a complex study on this. In my opinion, animals like monkeys and apes, who are basically unhappy on the ground, should just use climbing structures by themselfs and prefere higher sleeping places and such.

So please, Devs, can you tweak animal behaviour on this subject? I just spend hours on an habitat with climbing structures that gives my cappuchin monkeys a lot to do. I even placed enrichment items on the plattforms. Yet they prefere the same enrichment items on the ground.

Here is the thing with that. I 100% percent agree that they should be more willing and able to climb, their behavior's ratio when it comes to this is not only way off, but it is quite limited. The problem with the game is that their climbing is really not very polished, even when you observe all of the protocols to make it as smooth as possible. At times the positions are awkward etc, I'm not a technical expert, but I would imagine that this creates further drain on our systems. Then there is the issue of the game not really having the hundreds of realistic broken tree sections/branches/real life enrichment items that we need to create this simulations. Many players add large trees to the primate exhibits, that can be climbable (not realistic) if the behavior was increased, then those players would complain about the primates always being out of sight, instead of finding a way to improve their design, they would blame the game.

I think an idea would be to create a series of different enrichment items like lifelike concrete trees that simulate tree frames, sections of tress that can have a number of interaction points, an enrichment station or stations with a number of interaction points where primates exhibit natural behaviors (example a chimp taking hold of a rope and pulling on it) (A gorilla climbing a small African tree stump and sitting on it while eating a popsicle hidden inside a crevice) (An orangutan climbing a platform to play with a blanket, then going across a designated interaction bridge made of rope) So many real life zoo examples, never understood why the team did not include this kinds of behavior and looping animations with the animals and realistic looking enrichment items. Instead of oversize bowls, trays, and unrealistic looking toys.

 

[lunavinceres]

I notice a couple of people mentioning orangutans not climbing enough but actually orangutans sticking to the ground and generally being lazy is a problem in real life zoos too and keepers actively have to come up with ways to encourage more natural behaviours.

In general I completely agree though and I'm always sad when I've put a really nice climbing frame/trees in just to see them walk around on the ground most of the time.

Maybe I'm missing something but I'd love to be able to use something like hanging feeders as at the moment it seems you can only place feeders/food enrichment close to the ground as otherwise keepers can't reach them.

 

[Danny_zoo]

I notice a couple of people mentioning orangutans not climbing enough but actually orangutans sticking to the ground and generally being lazy is a problem in real life zoos too and keepers actively have to come up with ways to encourage more natural behaviours.

In general I completely agree though and I'm always sad when I've put a really nice climbing frame/trees in just to see them walk around on the ground most of the time.

Maybe I'm missing something but I'd love to be able to use something like hanging feeders as at the moment it seems you can only place feeders/food enrichment close to the ground as otherwise keepers can't reach them.

The main issue with Orangutans is the way they climb, and their movement. When you observe Orangutans in zoos for an extended period of time, you will notice that they usually grab ropes, extend their arms above their heads, etc, all while exhibiting brachiation behaviors that are all currently missing in game. While I do agree that Orangutans are generally lazy in comparison to a gibbon as an example, that time on the ground is usually spent resting, not traveling. Their amount of traveling even in their natural ecosystem is limited, and usually starts in the afternoon as they prepare their nests. In zoos these periods of inactivity are usually even more self evident, and as you well said, a lot of thought is given to enrichments opportunities that will encourage interactive behaviors. The Orangutans in Planet Zoo not only have all of their natural behaviors and movements missing, but they are too active while on the ground. In my opinion it is a model that was rushed out and never worked on again.

A solution without further complicating game mechanics, is to introduce enrichment stations for the Orangutans, where they can exhibit this controlled behavior as looping animations, the same exact way that it is done with any and all other enrichment stations. The realistic behavior would be tied to the stations and their use of them. I started a whole thread about this and made several recommendations to Frontier, hopefully they read them.

 

[DrBurrito]

I notice a couple of people mentioning orangutans not climbing enough but actually orangutans sticking to the ground and generally being lazy is a problem in real life zoos too and keepers actively have to come up with ways to encourage more natural behaviours.

That is actually true. However said laziness is still relative to a species that in the wild spends almost 100% of its time in the trees. Therefore, in zoos, even if they use climbing frames only as much as other apes, it is still considered lazy and they are encouraged to display more arboreal behavior. So their in-game base code should differ from other apes in terms of time spent up in climbing structures. If they were to spend almost all their time in climbing frames, that too would be unrealistic, since it doesn't happen in zoos. Some zoos for instance, have separate arboreal exhibit sections with no access to the ground. As we do not have separate sections within a single habitat in the game, this could somewhat be replicated by having enrichment, feeders and bedding up in elevated sections. These could represent the additional encouragement irl zoos provide. Only then should they spend most of their time on climbing frames. Without this additional effort, if we want the game to be realistic, they should display laziness and spend more time on the ground. But even then, their willingness to climb (time spent on climbing frames in terms of code) should still differ from other apes and big cats.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Did anyone noticed a change? I feel like at least my apes climb more. Not sure about the monkeys, only have the cappuchin monkey in my zoo currently.