PLEASE MAKE POWERPLAY IN "OPEN ONLY"

LOL, i don't want 7 day matches. 15 minutes is almost too much. I'm sure you are not doing PP around the clock 7 days a week either.

No, its an ongoing real time conflict, you are allowed to sleep but when you wake up its continuing.

And balanced teamplay can work to some extent, that depends though on the quality of the matchmaking system and the number of players available in the pool.

Indeed. It works pretty well though. This is a well documented example Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteWinters/comments/90a2lt/c164_capoping_off_another_expansion/
 
In all seriousness at it's height Powerplay probably had more players (pre cheats) playing than the total of the current player base; and, they did nothing but kick the can down the road then, so they never going to update powerplay now, are they?

Depends if they have a place for it in ED. If it does not, and its not going to have anything substantive done to it, it really needs to be removed.
 
In the end, Open Powerplay will not be for everyone, just as exploring or mining is not for everyone. It will be played by people who play in open and for those who want to cause trouble for rivals in a structured way.
On that we agree.
Its the inefficency in the proposal that makes the regular activities slower to do, and less certian of victory.
There is certainly a degree of truth to this statement, which is why I play in Open. But given how instancing in this game "works," I don't see this inefficiency having that much of an impact, outside of the situation we have now in combat expansions. Anybody who plays outside their local prime time will get an effective free pass, and even those who do play during their local concurrently frequently require matchmaking assists like winging up or friends lists to actually play in the same instance.

That is why I think whenever people talk about how brilliant PvP can be in Powerplay, they inevitably talk about Combat expansions, almost inevitably right before the tick. It takes hundreds of players willingly joining Open to have fun, playing concurrently in the same region of space to get enough players to instance together to get PvP action.
Right now it makes little sense other than for pride to play in Open, its more efficient to be in PG to turretboat or wing UM. It makes sense to be in solo to haul, because your opposition are poorly equipped and does not bend the rules.
And I have no problem with that. Especially the "does not bend the rules" part. I'd much rather have those who won't willingly play in Open without bending the rules playing in other modes, than have them forced into Open where they'll inevitably combat log, use exploits, or cheat. In other modes, they won't negatively impact my game, and under Sandro's proposal, their respective efficiences will cancel each other out.

I'll be honest- if FD come up with something that I think is better, I'll argue for another 60 pages for it, even if its across modes. But until that happens, from my own experiences from flashes of what Open PP is like, I'll always support it.
And that's why I oppose forced Open Powerplay. My experiences in Open from other Powerplayers was a lot of fun. The four months I spent in Open fortifiying had some of the most positive adversarial PvP I've experienced in this game. But those positive experiences were drowned out, at least at first, by the sheer number of unpledged commanders simply there to blow up ships. Those unpledged commanders weren't a threat to me, but they were certainly annoying. They can be fun in small doses, and tolerable in slightly larger ones, but at the numbers I was encountering for those first weeks? If they had continued for much longer, I would've been tempted to move to other modes just to get away from them for a while.

The key to those positive experiences in my opinion was having to opt in twice: once for Powerplay, and once for Open. I would much rather have the benefits of both Powerplay participation and Open participation, and the positive effects they can have to my game, than return to those first few weeks of Open Powerplay.
Its available, but no-one sees it as entertaining to join. Being everything to every commander has not worked and it needs a clearer reason for inclusion. If dev time is limited, then all the options to change Powerplay are limited as well unless FD change their minds. And out of whats been discussed, Open does that- it sidesteps the issue of limited AI and abstracted combat by using other players to fill in the gaps. If everyone is doing that, then it has a new niche that is unique in ED.
That's the thing, though. It's not everything to every commander, in fact it pretty much only appeals to ABA cargo haulers and combat farmers, unless you're willing to use it as an "excuse plot" for other activities. Combine that with the other systemic problems, and you get the current state of Powerplay. Modes doesn't have anything to do with it. Open Only will certainly change the status quo, but it'll do so by being even more unappealing to all those players who play in other modes because they don't enjoy PvP.
 
Dude, that is a fricking job, not a game.

It can get like that- the endless fortification without opposition makes for some Desert Bus stuff.

But then, I remember quite well I was doing some fortification, jumped in and saw a player FdL lurking above the star and how from being dull 'hit J x times' things became quite intense as I tried to work out who he was and what he wanted, all the time trying to maintain a prudent flight path. I don't think there is any NPC beside a Thargoid that makes me think "I might actually get destroyed".
 
There is certainly a degree of truth to this statement, which is why I play in Open. But given how instancing in this game "works," I don't see this inefficiency having that much of an impact, outside of the situation we have now in combat expansions. Anybody who plays outside their local prime time will get an effective free pass, and even those who do play during their local concurrently frequently require matchmaking assists like winging up or friends lists to actually play in the same instance.

That is why I think whenever people talk about how brilliant PvP can be in Powerplay, they inevitably talk about Combat expansions, almost inevitably right before the tick. It takes hundreds of players willingly joining Open to have fun, playing concurrently in the same region of space to get enough players to instance together to get PvP action.

From Capo (admittedly a combat expansion, but its documented and you can see it happening)


Also remember that the open changes drastically condense down the areas players need to be. Fortifiers all converse of capitals, and that fortification can go on longer if a system is UMed beyond 100%. Prep races in the same system will have players from multiple sides- check out GCRV that Antal lost. You have Antal, Hudson, LYR all shipping prep there that won't stop until the tick. Imagine if all that was in one mode- could LYR or Antal attack Hudsons haulers? Would Hudson hit back? Would that cause a chain reaction of UM to distract?

Combat expansions are few in number (usually one primary), just as you have haulers expanding in the same system. Players have to go to these places to do the tasks. I understand networking can be an issue, but for the majority it should be fine (as you can see in the video).

And I have no problem with that. Especially the "does not bend the rules" part. I'd much rather have those who won't willingly play in Open without bending the rules playing in other modes, than have them forced into Open where they'll inevitably combat log, use exploits, or cheat. In other modes, they won't negatively impact my game, and under Sandro's proposal, their respective efficiences will cancel each other out.

But people can choose to be in it, or not play at all. I freely admit it won't be for everyone, just as something like CQC is not for everyone. Some people will cheat like they do with the rest of the game, but its far easier for FD to spot. Example: early in Powerplays life Antal fought a PMF (named something like Future of Guyambayan exploited near Ewah). A commander who had huge amounts of merits in strange circumstances was stripped of them mid cycle after the opposition claimed he was cheating. Will it be perfect? No. But overall its better than now (IMO of course).

And that's why I oppose forced Open Powerplay. My experiences in Open from other Powerplayers was a lot of fun. The four months I spent in Open fortifiying had some of the most positive adversarial PvP I've experienced in this game. But those positive experiences were drowned out, at least at first, by the sheer number of unpledged commanders simply there to blow up ships. Those unpledged commanders weren't a threat to me, but they were certainly annoying. They can be fun in small doses, and tolerable in slightly larger ones, but at the numbers I was encountering for those first weeks? If they had continued for much longer, I would've been tempted to move to other modes just to get away from them for a while.

It depends on your view- in Open any PMF, wing, squadron can oppose you as you expand, fortify etc, like the Freedom Fighter mechanic. And you are not forcing anyone to play if they know up front what the mode is about. Those that want to play will, and those the don't won't.

The key to those positive experiences in my opinion was having to opt in twice: once for Powerplay, and once for Open. I would much rather have the benefits of both Powerplay participation and Open participation, and the positive effects they can have to my game, than return to those first few weeks of Open Powerplay.

My positive experiences were/ are flying in a wing, co-ordinating in real time while your enemy is doing the same in plain sight, feeding that back to Discord, scrambling others and directing them to other systems. Its far removed from telling someone to fortify system x, who slogs away alone with no real stuff happening. What if they were attacked by players? Patrols in capitals would help them out because thats the game, its forming structures that are interdependent. From this you get camaraderie and communities.

That's the thing, though. It's not everything to every commander, in fact it pretty much only appeals to ABA cargo haulers and combat farmers, unless you're willing to use it as an "excuse plot" for other activities. Combine that with the other systemic problems, and you get the current state of Powerplay. Modes doesn't have anything to do with it. Open Only will certainly change the status quo, but it'll do so by being even more unappealing to all those players who play in other modes because they don't enjoy PvP.

As I explained to you, having multiple modes is insulating and isolating, Open brings players together in and out of the game- for me Open brings PP alive, but is hampered by the modes and other design choices that dilute and hide the people you fight against.

In the current Powerplay you are right in who it appeals. When / if it changes to the Flash Topic, that will change again making those simple tasks complicated by player interference, attracting new players. The ultimate question is would it attract more or less, and who would stop playing? None of us know that.
 
No. CQC is 1:1 arena fights in small ships. An Open PP would be team v team dynamic objective based conflict in real time Open (as much as can be done) across several systems.



It depends: you can tell the module grind systems fortification wise- quite easily and these days they are harmless. Some systems are never fortified in the hope that a surprise turmoil will get rid of them, while others are vital CC generators. Also, if a power has lots of CC they don't need to fortify very much, as the enemy has to UM more systems to bring your CC into negative figures.
So you are saying that the CC generators, are at the top of the lists? This 'trend' that I have found, is happening week after week, month after month. Systems at the lower end of the lists, are not being worked on.
 
So you are saying that the CC generators, are at the top of the lists? This 'trend' that I have found, is happening week after week, month after month. Systems at the lower end of the lists, are not being worked on.

The order of the list is not important, its how much CC a system generates that is (its easier to see on the Galmap). As an example, Antals attack was so devestating because a lot of good systems were not fortified and were income generators.
 
The order of the list is not important, its how much CC a system generates that is (its easier to see on the Galmap). As an example, Antals attack was so devestating because a lot of good systems were not fortified and were income generators.
Are you missing by point?

The tops of the lists, are consistently being over fortified etc.. My belief is that it is down to player laziness, because they can't be bothered to simply scroll down the list to find another system to deliver to. You mentioned the importance of CC and I understand that, so I asked; are the systems listed in CC importance order? Then you went on to explain what CC is. I know what CC is and how important it is to look after said systems.

So does my belief stand: That players are picking systems from the top of the list, due to laziness? Or is there another valid reason, for over fortifying systems, at the top of the lists?
 
It can get like that- the endless fortification without opposition makes for some Desert Bus stuff.

And opposition just increases the work you have to do!

I really think Fortification needs to be removed or changed somehow. Powers have to spend days just shoring up their own borders, with Torval not even completing their fortification the other week before the cycle ended.
 
And opposition just increases the work you have to do!

I really think Fortification needs to be removed or changed somehow. Powers have to spend days just shoring up their own borders, with Torval not even completing their fortification the other week before the cycle ended.
With most of the lists, I have looked at over the last few weeks. Most have had enough items delivered, to cover every system; but because those systems at the top of the lists are over done, often twice as much required to hit trigger points. Those at the bottom of the lists, are loosing out.
 
Are you missing by point?

The tops of the lists, are consistently being over fortified etc.. My belief is that it is down to player laziness, because they can't be bothered to simply scroll down the list to find another system to deliver to. You mentioned the importance of CC and I understand that, so I asked; are the systems listed in CC importance order? Then you went on to explain what CC is. I know what CC is and how important it is to look after said systems.

So does my belief stand: That players are picking systems from the top of the list, due to laziness? Or is there another valid reason, for over fortifying systems, at the top of the lists?

The other is lack of instructions, its possible some players think "I'll start at the top and work down" thinking thats the way its done. This is why having a PP manual is so important, otherwise someone will go 'well what do I do?'.

The next time I'm on I'll look at the order to see if there is some sort of listing criteria.
 
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And opposition just increases the work you have to do!

I really think Fortification needs to be removed or changed somehow. Powers have to spend days just shoring up their own borders, with Torval not even completing their fortification the other week before the cycle ended.

And yet Antal, Mahon, Winters, Grom, etc can fortify really fast. Torval was semi abandoned not so long ago, so that may be the reason.

The problem with Powerplay is its far too easy to defend, and defend to such an extent that an attacker has very little chance of hurting a power.
 
And yet Antal, Mahon, Winters, Grom, etc can fortify really fast. Torval was semi abandoned not so long ago, so that may be the reason.

The problem with Powerplay is its far too easy to defend, and defend to such an extent that an attacker has very little chance of hurting a power.

Then perhaps the solution is to remove the fortification to free up players to attack more. Find some other way of providing a counter rather than just mindless grind.
 
Then perhaps the solution is to remove the fortification to free up players to attack more. Find some other way of providing a counter rather than just mindless grind.
Its not a mindless grind, but it is a grind. Utopia has only done a full fortification of every system on two occasions that I know of, & once was last cycle. Fortifying everything is certainly not the first thing on the agenda every week.
 
Alrighty, it’s lunch time, time to “dig in” while I’m digging in. ;)


But then, I remember quite well I was doing some fortification, jumped in and saw a player FdL lurking above the star and how from being dull 'hit J x times' things became quite intense as I tried to work out who he was and what he wanted, all the time trying to maintain a prudent flight path. I don't think there is any NPC beside a Thargoid that makes me think "I might actually get destroyed".
I guess that’s another area where you and I differ. I think that all the time with NPCs, and have fled from NPCs frequently, but rarely do I feel that fear with players. There’s one simple reason for that: NPCs include the “fight” option in my decision matrix, but that option is grayed out with players, unless I’m the aggressor.

I realized long ago that the type of player whose likely to attack me isn’t actually very good at this game. They have an equipment advantage, especially post-engineers, but they rely on that advantage like a crutch.

There are several areas in this game where that equipment advantage is minimized. I just happen to enjoy one if those areas, so I've gotten good at it. I’m not brilliant at it, but I’m good enough that even though the “fight” option is grayed out, I still have several options in my decision matrix besides “the Sir Robin maneuver.”

From Capo (admittedly a combat expansion, but its documented and you can see it happening)

I have no doubt that kind of thing can happen, but again I consider that kind of thing an anomaly, not the norm. After all, three of those involved were winged up, and while I’m on an iPad at work, I’d wager good money that that furball was the result of one or two players being an “anchor” for the rest of those involved, thanks to a chain of friends and wings.
Also remember that the open changes drastically condense down the areas players need to be. Fortifiers all converse of capitals, and that fortification can go on longer if a system is UMed beyond 100%. Prep races in the same system will have players from multiple sides- check out GCRV that Antal lost. You have Antal, Hudson, LYR all shipping prep there that won't stop until the tick. Imagine if all that was in one mode- could LYR or Antal attack Hudsons haulers? Would Hudson hit back? Would that cause a chain reaction of UM to distract?

I said it once, and I’ll say it again, while I can certa8nly understand why that is appealing to players like you. OTOH, if that kind of th8ng was frequent enough to actually matter in the long run, it sounds absolutely exhausting to me. Or, as Agony Aunt put it,

Dude, that is a fricking job, not a game.
But people can choose to be in it, or not play at all.
And you are not forcing anyone to play if they know up front what the mode is about. Those that want to play will, and those the don't won't.
As I explained to you, having multiple modes is insulating and isolating, Open brings players together in and out of the game- for me Open brings PP alive, but is hampered by the modes and other design choices that dilute and hide the people you fight against.

I understand why you feel that way, but what your proposing is taking existing game feature, that is currently free to anyone to play, and gating it behind a PvP barrier where none previously existed. That isn’t free choice. That is forcing others to play in the way you like to play. And that, in my book, is neither kosher nor fun.

In the current Powerplay you are right in who it appeals. When / if it changes to the Flash Topic, that will change again making those simple tasks complicated by player interference, attracting new players. The ultimate question is would it attract more or less, and who would stop playing? None of us know that.

True, nobody can know what will happen. Maybe Power Play Open Only would be one of those rare exceptions that encourage other developers to once again shoot for the proverbial holy grail. But online gaming has been around for 40 years, and developers, publishers, and academics have put much thought into gamer psychology. There’s a reason why PvP games are designed the way they are, and why MMO developers feel the need to gate PvP behind a software wall, or else see their game fail financially. I, personally, would hate to see Power Play become yet another example future developers point to and say, “See, this is why we should put in a PvP switch.”

YMMV
 
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