Please Save The Open Play - Doing Pirating Right and Killing Players For No Reason

[Lovecraft]

As I said "I am playing open all the time". I am just afraid that all the beginners and traders will go solo or pve and all the a-grade weapons loaded players only interested in pvp will go open.
I don't think FD want this to happen.

Depending on how wings work, there could be some cool counterplay to that.

I'm trying to get my housemate to take up trading/mining so I can shadow her in ship built for PvP. Wait for a pirate to take the bait, then swoop in for some bounty (running cold, sitting behind an asteroid will be awesome ) . Housemate trades/mines in safety, I get a cut + bounties.

Good in theory anyway. See how easy it is to do this kind of thing when wings is released, but the more players with weapons farming traders, the more bounties floating around, and more players farming pirates, with any luck.

 

[mojonaut]

Or play solo if you don't want to do that..

Oh no, we can't do that, we'll destroy the game, FD will go bankrupt, the world will end. PMSL

Stand by for Whining Pirates posts


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[figola]

The freedom given to us is what is special. I should say the freedom of what one might experience when they leave that starport is what keeps this interesting and gives me a sense of fear. Real world fear. Real world players. Ive met up w a cobra who talked me out of my cargo in my sidey like a gentleman. An eagle who wanted to chat but made me very unervy. All the while I had a sense of real world suspicion that no ai can give me. I wish i met the psyco cmndr. What a story or memory that could never be scripted. Heard once a conda was stalking a starport once.wish i was there. I dont know what drew others , but wasnt it the sense of unexpected. Are any of you getting killed every day by human players. Every day. Dont they get a lrge bounty. Hey thats cool. Maybee they travel around w hundred thousand dollar bounties. At least we dont have spawn points where griefers lay wait all day long and you cant even play the game. Anarchy systems. Searching for one as we speak. Im terrified. And loving every second of it. Get better. Upgrade wisely. Defense . If youve encountered some ruthless hostility. Not everyone will choose similar paths . And i dont want my enemies to be all AI. We are not at any level where someone cannot play this game. Griefing isnt even applicable. But learn how to overcome and suceed and survive. In the end you will be all the better for it and have some interesting memories.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[Mikan]

I'm just surprised that the players that get off on PKing everyone aren't being severely harassed by the insurance company lawyers over the millions that have to be paid out to cover all carnage they're causing

 

[mninik]

You should've left the guy alone but instead you wanted to killsteal in the nav beacon. I would've tried to kill you too.

You missed the quotes in 'stealing kill'. I was the first one who engaged over the anaconda, the other player joined in and tried to still my kill.
But I have different point of view. I usually help other commanders when they are fighting big ships. I stop firing when the hull or powerplant reach 10%. I am not interested in money, I have enough. I am not interested in building the kill numbers for Race to Elite, because I have not reseted at the end of a gamma.

You should try to give a hand to other players on this bounty huntings instead to fight them for every single npc kill. Maybe you will be surprised and get some friends.

When npc steals your kill, do you kill him? I never do?

 

[mninik]

Before you start with "doing it right", learn what Piracy is:

Piracy: An act of criminal violence, not only based on robbery, but can also lead into loot, murder, hijack and ransom. The term can include acts committed on land, air or sea.

So murder too huh? Pirates CAN kill their victims before, during or after they secure their loot, or they can let them go to tell the tale. It's up to each pirate, on how ever they work.




Those aren't pirates, those are murderes.


Pirates want profit.
Murderers want fun (or whatever ticks on their head ).

Now those are 2 types of players you might encounter, that's 2 things you learned so far.



And.... so, your solution is to destroy players who have fun in PVP in order for a PVE player like you to have fun?

How about for each trade item you sell, 60% of YOUR profits are splitted between every PVP player, since we're shooting crazy ideas?

Thank you for your lesson. I would now appreciate if you could finish the profile of pirates and tell us how they have been treated from authorities? Were they paying ticked worth the hand of gold for robbing ship full of gold and destroying it?
No, I don't think so. They were facing a death. And no, I don't want death to any players here.

What am I saying is that the penalties the pirates and murderers are getting in ED for causing enormous damage to other players should be balanced.

 

[Remiel]

You missed the quotes in 'stealing kill'. I was the first one who engaged over the anaconda, the other player joined in and tried to still my kill.
But I have different point of view. I usually help other commanders when they are fighting big ships. I stop firing when the hull or powerplant reach 10%. I am not interested in money, I have enough. I am not interested in building the kill numbers for Race to Elite, because I have not reseted at the end of a gamma.

You should try to give a hand to other players on this bounty huntings instead to fight them for every single npc kill. Maybe you will be surprised and get some friends.

When npc steals your kill, do you kill him? I never do?

I love it when players try to kill me because I 'stole' their kill. Turns out, it was never their kill at all, it was mine, since I'm the one that claimed the bounty. It also means I get to claim another bounty almost right away without even having to look for it.

 

[CloneWarrior85]

Thank you for your lesson. I would now appreciate if you could finish the profile of pirates and tell us how they have been treated from authorities? Were they paying ticked worth the hand of gold for robbing ship full of gold and destroying it?
No, I don't think so. They were facing a death. And no, I don't want death to any players here.

What am I saying is that the penalties the pirates are getting in ED for causing enormous damage to other players should be balanced.

Again, you fail you see the difference between pirates and murderers.

But anyway:

- Pirates/Murderers hunt traders/civilians
- Bounty Hunters/Vigilantes hunt Pirates/Murderers

There's your balance.

Don't forget this:

Pirates/murderers have: 6k bounty + initial fine + repairs + reload (multiply that per each kill)
Bounty hunters/vigilantes: repairs + reload (and they still get paid the bounty)


Yep balance, and it's perfect.

Criminal acts have more harsh consequences than non-criminal acts.

 

[mninik]

Again, you fail you see the difference between pirates and murderers.

But anyway:

- Pirates/Murderers hunt traders/civilians
- Bounty Hunters/Vigilantes hunt Pirates/Murderers

There's your balance.

Don't forget this:

Pirates/murderers have: 6k bounty + initial fine + repairs + reload (multiply that per each kill)
Bounty hunters/vigilantes: repairs + reload (and they still get paid the bounty)


Yep balance, and it's perfect.

Criminal acts have more harsh consequences than non-criminal acts.

So it would be 10-20k expenses for damage of 10million. I don't see any balance here.

 

[Helvellyn]

About the nav point business I'm wondering if there's something odd going on there. I've only been shot at a couple of times by other players but both times it was at a nav point, after I'd opened fire on a Wanted target. I'm clean but neither time the player that shot me changed to Wanted (and this wasn't in an Anarchy), in fact I got a bounty for shooting back. It wasn't the first NPC I'd shot whilst they were there either so it's (probably) not as if they thought they had some claim to all the bounties there, and I'd taken the NPC's shields down and did a fair bit of hull damage before getting shot myself. Wasn't stray fire because it carried on.

It could simply be that the other two players got bored but it did leave me wondering if there are some glitches with Wanted status on NPCs.

 

[CloneWarrior85]

So it would be 10-20k expenses for damage of 10million. I don't see any balance here.

Maybe you're trading wrong? If you're going to risk flying 100Lys for 1 single cargo for 1 huge profit, it's your loss.

You should be making a lot of stops between those 100Lys selling several bits of cargo from here to there.


A pirate on the other hand, doesn't make money unless he robs someone, and he'll never make 10mil in 1 robbery, or in a single run like a trader do. He needs to do a lot of attacks, and those attacks add a bounty to him, which attracts bounty hunters, making hes attacks more dangerous, etc. And never forget about the running cots of an attack, there's always repairs + reload.

A murderer never makes money.

You want more balance than that?

 

[Amaze]

Yes, yes. We must move away from the PUNISH EVERYBODY WHO DOES NOT PLAY THE WAY I WANT mentality.

Simply reward people for doing what you do like. Why, because its a game.

I suggested in another post that to encourage open play we could double all income. commodities = double, black market = double bounties = double etc.
Also free cargo insurance up to 80%

Only available to open players and maybe you have to lock in for a month at a time

That would be a punishment for every solo player who plays the game the way they want to play, solo.

Yet you disagreed with "PUNISH EVERYBODY WHO DOES NOT PLAY THE WAY I WANT mentality"?

 

[Underhook]

That would be a punishment for every solo player who plays the game the way they want to play, solo.

Yet you disagreed with "PUNISH EVERYBODY WHO DOES NOT PLAY THE WAY I WANT mentality"?

I dont think so. There is a reward for playing open (increased income) due to the increased risk. You will not be punished (fined) for playing solo. Its very similar to trading without shields to increase our trading income. Its our choice to play without shields, it increases the risk and we get rewarded for the extra risk. But playing with shields is not a punishment.

 

[Metalpig]

The only thing I would say is that it is a game with combat (versus Player or versus Environment) as one of it's core components. In the end killing players "for no reason" should not be viewed as a problem. If someone wants to engage you in combat you should be prepared to defend yourself.

Or play solo if you don't want to do that.

I have to be honest I'm really failing to see where these Solo vs Open arguments keep coming from. Why can't the game have the 2 modes. There will always be some players who aren't interested in PvP so solo or group modes will naturally be the ones that they will use. Then there's open mode for everyone else. I've seen plenty of CMDRs flying around over the last couple of weeks so I'm nowhere near convinced that there's some shortage of people who are prepared for at least some PvP every now and again (and to be honest most CMDRs I meet always seem more interested in chatting than shooting).

+1 on this. This is an MMO. If one player wants to kill another player I support that. If you don't want other people shooting at you play Solo. What is the problem here? That Frontier have not made the game YOU want? That is what Solo is for. This is open-world MMO. A fair percentage of players WANT PVP. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Metalpig]

The right of a CMDR is to attack whom he/she likes......it's not just about trade. What about system ownership / resource denial etc.? There are in-game mechanics to add bounties to CMDRs who attack other players (I think these should be a lot higher by the way - they are way to easy to pay off IMO).
I see where you are coming from, but in this instance I would recommend Solo play if this in-game behaviour is spoiling your play. If someone shoots at you, either shoot back or run away. Both are valid options, against NPCs or CMDRs.

 

[mninik]

Maybe you're trading wrong? If you're going to risk flying 100Lys for 1 single cargo for 1 huge profit, it's your loss.

You should be making a lot of stops between those 100Lys selling several bits of cargo from here to there.


A pirate on the other hand, doesn't make money unless he robs someone, and he'll never make 10mil in 1 robbery, or in a single run like a trader do. He needs to do a lot of attacks, and those attacks add a bounty to him, which attracts bounty hunters, making hes attacks more dangerous, etc. And never forget about the running cots of an attack, there's always repairs + reload.

A murderer never makes money.

You want more balance than that?

I am sorry if I was not clear. I strongly believe that the pirating should be implemented as it is now. If you steal some cargo from a trader and you get this bounty on you like it is now - I am ok with that. But in my opinion, murdering the player without reason, should be heavily punished.

What if I am regular citizen and I live in a neighborhood where everybody can murder me and rob me and they could get out with that easily. Should I be thrilled of excitement? No. I will move somewhere else. I would go solo.

Good thing that I am not regular citizen, I am done with the trading (done that open play) and I am well armed, so I am staying open for now.

 

[Amaze]

I dont think so. There is a reward for playing open (increased income) due to the increased risk. You will not be punished (fined) for playing solo. Its very similar to trading without shields to increase our trading income. Its our choice to play without shields, it increases the risk and we get rewarded for the extra risk. But playing with shields is not a punishment.

I don't know about that: and some dont have a choice because of date limits and other internet problems.
Half all income, commodities = half, black market = half, bounties = half etc.
pay more for insurance,, that would be the punishment for playing solo.

I am 100% all for making open more popular but the only reward open should have over that of solo, is being more fun.

 

[Jonathan Barnes]

comment on origonal post

POSSIBLE SOLUTION
If we want the traders back in open we should deal with ‘unethical’ pirates.

The pre-requirements for this solution is that the victims has some cargo onboard.
Or have a bounty on his head

Scenario a)
1. The pirate communicate to the victim and ask for cargo
No need for communication
Victim has option to drop his load, and allow the pirate to scoop what he wants, the victim could then recover leftovers.

Attacking an empty ship with a clean pilot should invalidate the pirates insurance, and put a bounty on the pirate and render the pirate liable to attack by any federal ships within 10 LY of the attacks position for 24 hours.

 

[Amaze]

POSSIBLE SOLUTION
If we want the traders back in open we should deal with ‘unethical’ pirates.

The pre-requirements for this solution is that the victims has some cargo onboard.
Or have a bounty on his head

Scenario a)
1. The pirate communicate to the victim and ask for cargo
No need for communication
Victim has option to drop his load, and allow the pirate to scoop what he wants, the victim could then recover leftovers.

Attacking an empty ship with a clean pilot should invalidate the pirates insurance, and put a bounty on the pirate and render the pirate liable to attack by any federal ships within 10 LY of the attacks position for 24 hours.

Except the pilot might be "clean" in that system but wanted in the system next door.
You don't want to make things harder for bounty hunters.

You could add the if the clean pilot has no bounty at all anywhere then I agree.
And for this the attacker must use the KWS.

Invalidating the pirates insurance for piracy is a bit harsh though.
But for all out murder it would be nice if they were made to pay some % of the victims insurance.

Conflict zones should be exempt from all this obviously.