POLL: Should ED have an Auto Pilot?

[Mohrgan]

Actually no. I want the computer to press j and x for me. And no, I didn't have to open my eyes for most of the trip. Just wave the mouse around a bit to find the sweet spot. Only if it still doesn't kick in after a few seconds then I'd have to open my eyes, happened rarely though, maybe once an hour.

You just don't know how to fly, which is why you think stars are risky.

Thus far I've gotten the following to successfully make a jump from one star to the next without any damage:
My grandfather who's never really used a computer beyond a 10 year old tablet.
My sister who doesn't play any videogames.
My cat with the aid of a laser pointer. Cat is still working on getting a Type-6 to launch from one station and land at an other. Gets bored and wanders off after 10 minutes.

I'm at a loss as to what goes below cat at the controls. But no. It is not risky unless you are terrible pilot. Anyone who claims that it is should not be allowed to fly under manual controls, they've proven they don't know how to operate the ship without damaging it. Go back to the tutorials until you figure things out.

All of which is beyond the point. You hope to bully me into passing on this argument. I don;t work that way. Why should I care how you feel about my abilities?

The point remains. Each time you drop into a system, there are risks. You want to minimize them, through insult, because you have no answer to actual point. If your ship is flying the Commander should be controlling it.

 

[SatansMittens]

All of which is beyond the point. You hope to bully me into passing on this argument. I don;t work that way. Why should I care how you feel about my abilities?

The point remains. Each time you drop into a system, there are risks. You want to minimize them, through insult, because you have no answer to actual point. If your ship is flying the Commander should be controlling it.

There really aren't any dangers, I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[Mohrgan]

There really aren't any dangers, I'm sorry you feel that way.

You just won't recognize them, because it doesn't fit in with your request. I, and anyone reading this, will see the facts.

 

[veryinky]

All of which is beyond the point. You hope to bully me into passing on this argument. I don;t work that way. Why should I care how you feel about my abilities?

Because continually claim to know the "real reason" why other people want an autopilot even though they repeatedly told you why. I just returned the favor by pointing out why you're so adamant on projecting your inadequacies on others. It's not them that can't pilot a ship, it you.

Also:

FLIGHT ------

Your ship has three basic modes of flight: Autopilot, Manual and Engines
Off which can be selected by using the Flight Control icons F7 in View
mode. The Autopilot is by far the easiest way to control your craft but
does not give you a sense of achievement. Manual flight may take some
getting used to, but is more rewarding. Flying with engines off does not
get you very far, but has some advantages as you will see.

THE AUTOPILOT

This most useful device, although not usually fitted as standard, has been
included with your Eagle. It can be bought and fitted at a shipyard if
ever you need another one. Your Autopilot, the Robocruise automatic
navigation system, superseded the Celestial Pathfinder which was less
reliable.

The Autopilot can only be used to select a destination in the system
through which you are currently travelling. For longer journeys, a
hyperspace jump needs to be made

OPERATING AUTOPILOT IN VIEW MODE

The Autopilot can only be used when in flight.

Whilst in a View mode (use the View icon F1 if you are in another mode),
target a planet or space station which is on the screen by clicking on the
centre of the target Note that you will find it easier to find a target,
for example, a city, if the name is on screen. If names have been turned
off, select the Identification Text icon F10.

Clicking where there is no potential target deselects any previously
selected target.

When a target is selected a sight will come up with targeting squares and
the range in astronomical units or kilometres (Fig 38). If the target goes
off the screen an arrow will appear pointing in its direction. If it is
behind then Target Behind is displayed.

Use the Flight Control icon F7 and cycle through Manual and Engines Off
to Autopiiot.

The Autopilot icon will only appear if a target is selected.

OPERATING AUTOPILOT IN CURRENT SYSTEM MAP MODE

This mode can be used when the desired destination is too far away to be
visible. A target can be selected even while landed or docked but the
Autopilot can only be engaged while in flight.

Use the Map icon F2 twice to obtain the Current System map.

Use the Current System map controls until yon can see the desired
destination on the screen

Click on the Targeting icon F10.

Click on the centre of the desired destination (Fig 39).

If you wish to change the target, click on the Targeting icon before
selecting another body. Clicking on bodies without selecting the Targeting
icon will merely move that body to the centre of the screen.

If you wish to deselect the target, click on an area which is blank. This
will also disengage the Autopilot if it is currently in control.

Return to View mode using the View icon F1. Targeting squares, looking
like a tunnel leading to the destination, will be visible, if in Front or
Rear View.

If you are in flight click on the Flight Control Icon F7 and cycle to
Autopilot to engage it. To return to Manual flight, use the Flight Control
icon F7 and cycle to Manual or Engines Off.

The Robocruise will automatically plot and maintain the course to your
destination. It will also lower the undercarriage and dock or land for
you, having automatically asked for clearance, while you freshen up. Some
pilots find it disorientating when the Robocruise engages and swings the
ship round. The true Spacehound knows that it is only locking on to the
new course.

Remember you can only trade and do business in cities or at space stations.
If you do land anywhere else the console will indicate Landed (Rough).

The Robocruise really comes into its own when used in conjunction with the
Stardreamer Time Control unit which is fitted as standard on all ships due
to regulations regarding Wilbron's psychosis. This condition is known to
afflict the space traveller who endures lengthy, uneventful journeys.
Boredom becomes so intense after all leisure pursuits have been exhausted
that pilots have been known to fly their craft into the odd star or planet
just to liven things up a bit.

Have you considered that the reason you keep hitting stars all the time is because you're suffering from Wilbron's Psychosis?

 

[SatansMittens]

All of which is beyond the point. You hope to bully me into passing on this argument. I don;t work that way. Why should I care how you feel about my abilities?

The point remains. Each time you drop into a system, there are risks. You want to minimize them, through insult, because you have no answer to actual point. If your ship is flying the Commander should be controlling it.

Even if I were to intentionally fly directly at a star, binary, white dwarf, or even a black hole the worst thing that ever happens is i drop out of supercruise and over heat a little bit. Then to escape i just line up with with the escape vector, over heat a little bit more and all is well.
I really don't get where you get all this perceived danger from.

 

[Mohrgan]

Because continually claim to know the "real reason" why other people want an autopilot even though they repeatedly told you why. I just returned the favor by pointing out why you're so adamant on projecting your inadequacies on others. It's not them that can't pilot a ship, it you.

Also:

Have you considered that the reason you keep hitting stars all the time is because you're suffering from Wilbron's Psychosis?

What you think about my abilities is like water off a ducks back.

This is Elite: Dangerous we are playing. It has been designed to be different from some of the preceding Elites. Like the Flight Model, and it being a Multi-player game. FD have said that because of the MP aspects, and the scale rendering of the actual Milky Way Galaxy, time dilation and insta-jumps of the past are inappropriate for this version. How do you think the argument that Elite 2 flight model should be imposed upon E|D would go over? All of this was debated, and decided upon during the design phase of the game. That excerpt has no validity to the game at hand.

Now that you have no argument about the risks involved with dropping in on another star, you wish to assault me with some vagary about previous versions. Weak, very weak.

 

[SatansMittens]

What you think about my abilities is like water off a ducks back.

This is Elite: Dangerous we are playing. It has been designed to be different from some of the preceding Elites. Like the Flight Model, and it being a Multi-player game. FD have said that because of the MP aspects, and the scale rendering of the actual Milky Way Galaxy, time dilation and insta-jumps of the past are inappropriate for this version. How do you think the argument that Elite 2 flight model should be imposed upon E|D would go over? All of this was debated, and decided upon during the design phase of the game. That excerpt has no validity to the game at hand.

Now that you have no argument about the risks involved with dropping in on another star, you wish to assault me with some vagary about previous versions. Weak, very weak.

I do not wish to attack you or your abilities. But from how you seem to perceive travel to be dangerous in ED makes me start to wonder if we are playing the same game. In all seriousness, no attack meant toward you at all, but maybe you are doing something wrong.

 

[Mohrgan]

I do not wish to attack you or your abilities. But from how you seem to perceive travel to be dangerous in ED makes me start to wonder if we are playing the same game. In all seriousness, no attack meant toward you at all, but maybe you are doing something wrong.

No, you are just trying to make this about me hitting stars, instead of about the risks involved in dropping in on a new star. In relation to the idea of automating the mechanic. An HJ-AP would simply negate the risks surrounding entering a new system. You feel that making it about me and my abilities will enable you to brush this point aside. Take your best shot. Your opinion of me and my piloting can weather what ever you want to put out there.

 

[veryinky]

What you think about my abilities is like water off a ducks back.

And yet I've managed to point out very clearly that the only risks one would have is by being an unskilled or incompetent pilot. You'll note that other people have been ignoring your "but what about the risks?" argument because of how it reflects more on your ability than theirs.

And I posted the Elite 2 version of the autopilot to show how such a feature has already been successfully implemented without succumbing to the idiotic slippery slope "but what about combat computers or trade computers???".

It was also a dig at your inability to fly a ship without a star, true. There's no denying that.

As for assaulting you, please, you keep claiming that other people are as terrible a pilot as you are. Your own inabilities has clouded your perceptions of reality.

I'm sure you'll go on about the "risks" you face whenever you try exiting a station or trying to point a mining laser at an asteroid but really, you're the only one who has to face these "risks". We don't want a navigation computer to "minimize these risks" that you endlessly repeat without thinking, we want to minimize the tedium. Do you understand? These things aren't risky to us. They're boring and repetitive. Most people do not enjoy repeating (what is to them) risk free tasks they've done tens of thousands of times before.

According to the statistics screen at some point recently I did my 50,000th jump (50,147 right now). I can tell you that do not experience risk while jumping. I do not even experience consciousness while jumping, it's a pure mechanical reflex honed through tens of thousands of repeating the same stupid action done through timing and audio cues. The fact that people like you who blunder helplessly into stars are trying to dictate to the rest of the population about the availability of navigation computers is outright obnoxious.

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No, you are just trying to make this about me hitting stars, instead of about the risks involved in dropping in on a new star. In relation to the idea of automating the mechanic. An HJ-AP would simply negate the risks surrounding entering a new system. You feel that making it about me and my abilities will enable you to brush this point aside. Take your best shot. Your opinion of me and my piloting can weather what ever you want to put out there.

If the autopilot is just automating a mechanic, how does it "negate the risks surrounding entering a new system" beyond removing the possibility the pilot has fallen asleep and slams into the star? What risks are you talking about that can't be done by a human pilot who presses x then j 5 seconds later?

I'm asking you directly: how, or why, would one hit a star's boundary? And why would an autopilot "negate the risk"?

 

[Mohrgan]

And yet I've managed to point out very clearly that the only risks one would have is by being an unskilled or incompetent pilot. You'll note that other people have been ignoring your "but what about the risks?" argument because of how it reflects more on your ability than theirs.

And I posted the Elite 2 version of the autopilot to show how such a feature has already been successfully implemented without succumbing to the idiotic slippery slope "but what about combat computers or trade computers???".

It was also a dig at your inability to fly a ship without a star, true. There's no denying that.

As for assaulting you, please, you keep claiming that other people are as terrible a pilot as you are. Your own inabilities has clouded your perceptions of reality.

I'm sure you'll go on about the "risks" you face whenever you try exiting a station or trying to point a mining laser at an asteroid but really, you're the only one who has to face these "risks". We don't want a navigation computer to "minimize these risks" that you endlessly repeat without thinking, we want to minimize the tedium. Do you understand? These things aren't risky to us. They're boring and repetitive. Most people do not enjoy repeating (what is to them) risk free tasks they've done tens of thousands of times before.

According to the statistics screen at some point recently I did my 50,000th jump (50,147 right now). I can tell you that do not experience risk while jumping. I do not even experience consciousness while jumping, it's a pure mechanical reflex honed through tens of thousands of repeating the same stupid action done through timing and audio cues. The fact that people like you who blunder helplessly into stars are trying to dictate to the rest of the population about the availability of navigation computers is outright obnoxious.

It's not about ones piloting skills. It's about the inherent risks involved with the HJ mechanic. If not for your awesome ability not to hit stars, without your input, you would hit stars. That's the point. Without input, your ship would hit a star. That input should be controlled by the Commander, not a computer.

Notice I can make that entire statement without insulting anyone. Including you.

P.S. I'm not making these arguments to convince you. I'm making these arguments for the entire debate. I'll never change your mind, but I might change another reader's or even FD's mind.

 

[SatansMittens]

No, you are just trying to make this about me hitting stars, instead of about the risks involved in dropping in on a new star. In relation to the idea of automating the mechanic. An HJ-AP would simply negate the risks surrounding entering a new system. You feel that making it about me and my abilities will enable you to brush this point aside. Take your best shot. Your opinion of me and my piloting can weather what ever you want to put out there.

Ok ok... dude i tried to be nice.... you've got issues of some kind
THERE IS NO RISK WHEN DROPPING IN ON A STAR. Absolutely zero, none, zada, zilch risk. You are out of your mind if you think there is.

 

[Mohrgan]

Ok ok... dude i tried to be nice.... you've got issues of some kind
THERE IS NO RISK WHEN DROPPING IN ON A STAR. Absolutely zero, none, zada, zilch risk. You are out of your mind if you think there is.

Wrong. Without input, from a pilot or computer, a ship would plunge into a star and cook. Try it. I'll even pay for your re-buy (I'll need video proof for the payout).

 

[veryinky]

That input should be controlled by the Commander, not a computer.

Why.

And it's been obvious there's no way to convince you that an Elite 2 autopilot would be acceptable, I've been arguing because I despise people who use emotional appeals, ascribe motivations to other people's arguments and then get all defensive whenever that same argument style is used against them.

 

[SatansMittens]

Wrong. Without input, from a pilot or computer, a ship would plunge into a star and cook. Try it. I'll even pay for your re-buy (I'll need video proof for the payout).

No way!!!! Thats crazy Dude I had no idea that without input it would overheat... thats insanity. Ok everyone go home, this is the answer we've been looking for on why we can't have an autopilot.

 

[veryinky]

Wrong. Without input, from a pilot or computer, a ship would plunge into a star and cook. Try it. I'll even pay for your re-buy (I'll need video proof for the payout).

You'll need a way to transfer credits too.

I'll point out that without a computer the jump would be impossible in the first place and that you're just arbitrarily trying to decide what limits a computer can do out of your love of mindless repetitive tasks.

 

[Mohrgan]

Why.

And it's been obvious there's no way to convince you that an Elite 2 autopilot would be acceptable, I've been arguing because I despise people who use emotional appeals, ascribe motivations to other people's arguments and then get all defensive whenever that same argument style is used against them.

Something like what you are doing? My argument is no emotional, it's based on logic. If your ship is flying, a Commander should be in control. Without the proper response to entering a new system, your ship would drop into the star and cook. Based on that, my opinion is, the Commander should have to make that input. My opinion. Just a valid as yours.

Elite 2 was a very different game to E|D. It didn't have the MP element, nor the scale of the Milky Way Galaxy. A large portion of the players around here want to preserve that scale. Watching Netflix, or reading a webpage doesn't do that.

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You'll need a way to transfer credits too.

I'll point out that without a computer the jump would be impossible in the first place and that you're just arbitrarily trying to decide what limits a computer can do out of your love of mindless repetitive tasks.

Not arbitrarily. Sure a computer is needed to make an HJ, but so is a Commanders input. That same computer is needed for Combat, for Trade, for all of the tasks we do, to facilitate us, not replace us.

 

[SatansMittens]

Something like what you are doing? My argument is no emotional, it's based on logic. If your ship is flying, a Commander should be in control. Without the proper response to entering a new system, your ship would drop into the star and cook. Based on that, my opinion is, the Commander should have to make that input. My opinion. Just a valid as yours.

Elite 2 was a very different game to E|D. It didn't have the MP element, nor the scale of the Milky Way Galaxy. A large portion of the players around here want to preserve that scale. Watching Netflix, or reading a webpage doesn't do that.

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Not arbitrarily. Sure a computer is needed to make an HJ, but so is a Commanders input. That same computer is needed for Combat, for Trade, for all of the tasks we do, to facilitate us, not replace us.

You found mario bros tough back in the day didn't you. Pulling back on a joystick is so tough.... no computer could ever replicate this most difficult of human abilities. Sheesh. Just leave your "logic" at the door please.

 

[veryinky]

If your ship is flying, a Commander should be in control.

Oh no you don't.

Answer the question this time without going on some rant about yourself.

Why should the commander be in control of mindless repetitive tasks instead of doing things that require some form of intellect or skill?

Why do you believe that the majority of a player's time should be wasted doing jumps instead of deciding what to trade by looking at the markets or entering combat or prospecting asteroids. Why is jumping a sacrosanct subject to you?

 

[Mohrgan]

You found mario bros tough back in the day didn't you. Pulling back on a joystick is so tough.... no computer could ever replicate this most difficult of human abilities. Sheesh. Just leave your "logic" at the door please.

Insults and innuendo, that's all you have. I'm saying that, even though you devalue it, there are risks in dropping in on a star. That ease of avoidance doesn't negate the fact that it's there. If it wasn't, you wouldn't have to do a thing. That's what you're asking for. To be relieved of some of the risk of travel by installing an Autopilot Module. I argue against that choice. A commander should have to control their ship as they cross the galaxy. My opinion.

 

[SatansMittens]

Oh no you don't.

Answer the question this time without going on some rant about yourself.

Why should the commander be in control of mindless repetitive tasks instead of doing things that require some form of intellect or skill?

Why do you believe that the majority of a player's time should be wasted doing jumps instead of deciding what to trade by looking at the markets or entering combat or prospecting asteroids. Why is jumping a sacrosanct subject to you?

I hope he flys everywhere with flight assist off with that kind of logic.... no computer assistance whatsoever!!