Poll - UGC / Custom Content

[stuk71]

The difference is it's so much more fun to play a game that has an active community around it - I like sharing and comparing YouTube videos of what people achieve in these games. And the reason the RCT3 community is around 12 years later, and still so active is largely down to UGC. It enabled us to keep the game fresh and always create something entirely new.

Great point Deuce, however, I feel there will be a pretty active community once the game gets out there. What we have seen from the terraforming tools is certainly enough to compare YouTube videos over... It's certainly a start anyway

 

[Mr Deuce]

Great point Deuce, however, I feel there will be a pretty active community once the game gets out there. What we have seen from the terraforming tools is certainly enough to to compare YouTube videos over... It's certainly a start anyway

Yeah I have no worries about the community for at least the first couple of years. To be honest, if they just released the landscape editor alone that would keep me happy for a long time lol.

But this game deserves to do at least as well as RCT3, and for a game to hold it's own 10 years later really requires the correct ingredients from day one. I'm actually thinking Frontier do have a plan for UGC. Possibly locked to their own DLC for a while then opened up to all contributors - which would be fair enough. so long as people playing the game get used to bringing in and using extra content then long term the game and community will do well I'm sure.

 

[Angelis1]

We have talked about this before if you remember. For various reasons I'm fairly certain this game won't be hackable in the way others are. I don't think it will be possible [...]

You are wrong (and I'm sure you know it)

For various reasons I know that EVERY game can be breaked. It's not even 99,9%, it's the case of 100% of the game existing on this planet (at least, so far).

[...] But for now, the fact there is a chance it could be added by a third party does not mean we shouldn't debate and push for it's inclusion by frontier themselves, from day one.

That's it ! [big grin]
It was complicated but now you get it !

This is what is important here : the Official Content Manager + the Official Content Editor !!! [up]

References :

- Modding Support Topic https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/182-Modding-support
- Custom Content Topic https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/394-Custom-Content

 

[Milkman1]

I don't want any UGC if setting up the system is going to take away time and resources from the development of the core game. So far Frontier has not shown us any reason as to why we should not have complete faith in them providing us with all the (quality) scenery that will not hinder our enjoyment of the game- or stifle our creativity. [up][yesnod][heart][squeeeeee][noob][happy]

 

[darkhorizon]

We have talked about this before if you remember. For various reasons I'm fairly certain this game won't be hackable in the way others are. I don't think it will be possible, or at least practicle to make PC do anything Frontier don't wish it to do.

Well, considering Frontier is using the same engine that was used in RCT3, it's completely plausible that it may not be as difficult as one might think. I'm pretty positive that the format for assets have changed entirely, though, so any existing code like my path creating library will be of zero use I presume. But definitely not impossible.


I do think that Frontier will inevitably add support for custom content. I think they'd rather have official tools than letting the community mod and reverse-engineer their game (again). Plus, I do think that they recognize the fact that the custom content community is one of the main reasons why RCT3 has stayed alive all these years with a thriving RCT3 fanbase on multiple forums.

 

[Milkman1]

Well, considering Frontier is using the same engine that was used in RCT3, it's completely plausible that it may not be as difficult as one might think.

Planet Coaster uses an advanced version of the Cobra engine. It's possible that they fixed the exploit.

 

[Coasterbuff]

There is a lot of debate going on about UGC at the moment and understandably, a lot of people want it.

As far as I am concerned I will be quite happy to play the game as it is on release, there will be plenty of scenery to keep me happy for quite a while, designing my parks, as well as plenty of managing ready made scenarios like there was when RCT3 was first released.

Over the next couple of years, we had the two expansion packs, Soaked & Wild, which gave lots more rides, scenery items, themes and so on, which enable even better parks to be created. It wasn't until the community started making UGC, that lots more scenery packs became available to download and install into your game, to make even more spectacular buildings and themes including dark ride theme packs and so on.

This was all well and good, but there was no proper control when it came to UGC, because Atari at that time, only hosted a Coaster, Scenario & Park Exchange site where you could download coasters and parks that other people had created. So all UGC had to be uploaded to user websites or file share hosting sites, where they could be downloaded and then installed into your game. The trouble was, there was no proper control over any of this UGC. Most of it was good, other stuff was full of bugs and you took your chance after downloading it, that it wouldn't corrupt your game after installing it.

Some of these UGC files were made very well, with exe installation, so it put everything into the correct file folders in your game. Some UGC files, had to be manually inserted in to the game folders, often with no read me file attached, explaining which folders you had to insert the different files types. So unless you knew how to deal with files, and where to put them, there was every chance your game would not run those files. Then there was the file extension issue. Some files needed Winzip, others 7z and some Winrar for them to be opened.

This is why I would like to see UGC hosted by Frontier or Steam Workshop, or whatever, where they can be checked properly for any virus or bugs before installing and then for the installation to be automatically installed correctly into the proper folders into your game.

But even if UGC doesn't get accepted, for a few years, we will have enough to keep us amused, because I am sure frontier will give us plenty of new content in the way of expansion packs, similar to those we had for RCT3. Yes UGC is great, but it needs to be hosted properly in one place, where it can be verified and checked, not just uploaded willy nilly to any website/file sharing site that you find, then in twelve months time, that website has closed down or disappeared into the ether.

I still play RCT3 and have lots of UGC and I have downloaded quite a few really good parks, that need certain UGC to work. So you try to find that content and find that the site it is available from, has either deleted the file, or they no longer hosts it, so that really, that brilliant park you fancied downloading, is useless to play, because you cant get hold of the content, needed to run it.

 

[Mr Deuce]

Well, considering Frontier is using the same engine that was used in RCT3, it's completely plausible that it may not be as difficult as one might think. I'm pretty positive that the format for assets have changed entirely, though, so any existing code like my path creating library will be of zero use I presume. But definitely not impossible.


I do think that Frontier will inevitably add support for custom content. I think they'd rather have official tools than letting the community mod and reverse-engineer their game (again). Plus, I do think that they recognize the fact that the custom content community is one of the main reasons why RCT3 has stayed alive all these years with a thriving RCT3 fanbase on multiple forums.

The engine (by the same name but really generations apart now) is not open source, and virtually no one that isn't currently working at Frontier has any working knowledge of it, even if they could 'break it'. That and the distinct possibility of a connection being required to play could very well rule out any the practical possibility of modding the game to make UGC possible. Same as with E. That game has a massive community and no modding at all.

 

[stuk71]

The engine (by the same name but really generations apart now) is not open source, and virtually no one that isn't currently working at Frontier has any working knowledge of it, even if they could 'break it'. That and the distinct possibility of a connection being required to play could very well rule out any the practical possibility of modding the game to make UGC possible. Same as with E. That game has a massive community and no modding at all.

Agreed

btw Good post Coasterbuff

 

[Angelis1]

The engine (by the same name but really generations apart now) is not open source, and virtually no one that isn't currently working at Frontier has any working knowledge of it, even if they could 'break it'. That and the distinct possibility of a connection being required to play could very well rule out any the practical possibility of modding the game to make UGC possible. Same as with E. That game has a massive community and no modding at all.

It's not the same thing. E is an "online game only" (If i'm not wrong, I dont play this game) but believe me, I'm sure they are trying to make some StarWars mods or new cockpit HUD and things ... Anyway, here we are talking about a "Theme Park Simulator" !!! The top one best modding thing ever for tinkerers and any sort of talented "designers" (maybe after RPG idk)

So, only two solutions :

1) - They totally allow modding (because it's obvious for this kind of game)
2) - They allow modelers/graphics designers/sound designers/codeurs(with scripted objects?)/etc... to add their own creations with a sort of "platform" (a "sort of" controlled "modding") where you can find the paying content (like official content, DLC) but also all the custom content made by the "authors" registered on the plaform.
3) - They dont allow it (with DRM, or a 100% online game, or things like that) and many players (from the "Designers" part, not the "Managers" part, because they dont care) will be sad, and the tinkerers will abandon, and hackers/hardcore coders are going to pick up the slack to make things much more complicated to break the game (decompiling the game, trying to guess what is what which is a real pain in the ass, cloning the game, recode the "token authorization", emulate a non-official server which therefore, will not be updated, etc... whatever, the solutions are numerous, and it's always bad at the end, with pirated copies, poorly optimized plugins, and others worse things...)

I have no desire to become a pirate, just because they forgot to please those who love creating things. Just because I want to use the happy potter train in my transport ride, just because I want to make a simple sign with my logo for the restaurant I created, because I want a specific sound in a speaker, because I dont like a type "rock" and I want to change the texture, because for the "land" I have in mind I just a "blue palmtree" because it's a fantasy zone, because it's 2016 and it's easy to learn 3D with millions of tutorials on the web and because I just like to create 2D and 3D things, which are just "personnal", and the satisfaction of having it in my park.

And to finish, I want to talk about something else : Many people say (rightly) that custom content increase the life of the game (in several months/years), which is totally true, and I said the same. But needless to think that far in the future : What would I do in the game when I have completed the "XX hours scenarios" (which I normally play 2 or 3 hours, only like a tutorial, to understand how the game work and to see the content, because I only play the sandbox mode after that) ? I uninstall the game because I cannot create the park of my dreams ?? I go back on RCT3 ???? [sad]

 

[Wagi]

Even after this many years there's a great number of things in RCT3's engine that we haven't been able to figure out. Anyone see any new peeps? I know some have worked on that, but they weren't totally successful. New entertainers? Nope. While the ability of people to hack a game engine can't be denied, it's also not guaranteed either. I'd much rather have an officially supported method of adding UGC, with set standards and best practices, even if that comes after any DLC from Frontier.

I might be mistaken, but my understanding was that it was Atari, and not Frontier, that opposed UGC in RCT3. I think I recall David saying that Frontier was interested in it but it was up to Atari.

 

[Angelis1]

Even after this many years there's a great number of things in RCT3's engine that we haven't been able to figure out. Anyone see any new peeps? I know some have worked on that, but they weren't totally successful. New entertainers? Nope. While the ability of people to hack a game engine can't be denied, it's also not guaranteed either. I'd much rather have an officially supported method of adding UGC, with set standards and best practices, even if that comes after any DLC from Frontier. [...]

I much rather have an official method too, but, why "after DLC from Frontier" ? I dont get it ! It's like they can not live together ?

Cities:Skylines have thousands of mods, but they still sell expansions.

 

[stuk71]

I much rather have an official method too, but, why "after DLC from Frontier" ? I dont get it ! It's like they can not live together ?

Cities:Skylines have thousands of mods, but they still sell expansions.

I believe the game you are looking for is RCTW - they have reported to offer UGC from the outset and using Steam as a sharing platform. Maybe try their community forums?

 

[Coasterbuff]

I much rather have an official method too, but, why "after DLC from Frontier" ? I dont get it ! It's like they can not live together ?

Cities:Skylines have thousands of mods, but they still sell expansions.

Above all, I just want to have an official method and I think it will come eventually, but let's not forget, the game will have enough content at release, to keep everyone happy for a while, like RCT3 did, then we will get further expansion packs, as Frontier have stated, they are in this for the long haul. I think Planet Coaster will last just as long as it's successor and maybe longer, who can tell.

I am 72 in twelve days time, so if I get ten more years or longer if I am lucky, of enjoyment from this game, before I am knocking on the Pearly Gates to meet my maker, then so be it, I may just be able to carry on playing it in one of our creators many mansions, who knows what awaits us beyond the grave.

Sorry to have sounded a little morbid, but time is marching on for me, and luckily I am in good health, but no one lives forever.

 

[Angelis1]

I believe the game you are looking for is RCTW - they have reported to offer UGC from the outset and using Steam as a sharing platform. Maybe try their community forums?

Yeah okay. Very good joke ...

I know that you message is just here to be rude with me, but ... I answer anyway : With RCTW it's worse, because everything is prefabs, so until you want to make a big statue (or any large one-meshe structure) custom content is useless cause you cannot import all these small elements (small details) that are useful to make your own restaurant/shop/covered themed queue/entrance/whatever.

And even a 8 years old kid can make a simple 3D wall, 2m tall, with a texture on it (which is more complicated with a full building for example)

Above all, I just want to have an official method and I think it will come eventually, but let's not forget, the game will have enough content at release, to keep everyone happy for a while, like RCT3 did, then we will get further expansion packs, as Frontier have stated, they are in this for the long haul. I think Planet Coaster will last just as long as it's successor and maybe longer, who can tell.

I'm not agree. I think the issue is not about "how much" content we have. It's more complicated than that.

It's about "having our own things"

 

[Joël]

[...]
So, only two solutions :

1) - They totally allow modding (because it's obvious for this kind of game)
2) - They allow modelers/graphics designers/sound designers/codeurs(with scripted objects?)/etc... to add their own creations with a sort of "platform" (a "sort of" controlled "modding") where you can find the paying content (like official content, DLC) but also all the custom content made by the "authors" registered on the plaform.
3) - [...]

I would like an official solution for UGC too. So option 2, with an official content manager of some sort, to have a good way of easy management of official content and UGC and download/uploaded content such as blueprints.
If that's not possible (it is, but the question is will it be possible), option 1.

Update: both options 1 and 2 combined will be even better! Maybe give the players the choice to enable/disable such a content manager of option 2, and for total freedom option 1. [up] [yesnod]

 

[Joël]

[...] I may just be able to carry on playing it in one of our Creators many mansions, who knows what awaits us beyond the grave. [...]

That would be a nice idea! [wink]

 

[Coasterbuff]

Yeah okay. Very good joke ...

I know that you message is just here to be rude with me, but ... I answer anyway : With RCTW it's worse, because everything is prefabs, so until you want to make a big statue (or any large one-meshe structure) custom content is useless cause you cannot import all these small elements (small details) that are useful to make your own restaurant/shop/covered themed queue/entrance/whatever.

And even a 8 years old kid can make a simple 3D wall, 2m tall, with a texture on it (which is more complicated with a full building for example)

I'm not agree. I think the issue is not about "how much" content we have. It's more complicated than that.

It's about "having our own things"

I understand than Angelis, I too would like to have our own things, but I don't think we are going to be able to implement these from day one. We are just speculating about it at the moment (UGC). So let's see what Frontier have in mind about it, before we jump on the band wagon.

Anyway we shouldn't be getting into any arguments about all this, let's just go with the flow for the time being. I have read enough arguments about different issues over on the Dark Side, we don't want it filtrating onto these forums.

 

[Angelis1]

I understand than Angelis, I too would like to have our own things, but I don't think we are going to be able to implement these from day one. We are just speculating about it at the moment (UGC). So let's see what Frontier have in mind about it, before we jump on the band wagon.

Anyway we shouldn't be getting into any arguments about all this, let's just go with the flow for the time being. I have read enough arguments about different issues over on the Dark Side, we don't want it filtrating onto these forums.

Of course they can do it at day one (Let's be clear, day one mean the day of the release of the game, not in March, at the begining of the early access, it's two different things), and more than that, they really SHOULD !!!

Because the "content library" (or whatever his name) should be an integral part of the game (like SteamWorkshop, and the SteamStore is an integral part of Steam). That way, when they release the game (some months or a year after the early access), the platform already offers hundreds/thousands of free content (like I already suggered here : https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/311-Custom-Music/page5?p=7054&viewfull=1#post7054 )

 

[Joël]

Anyway we shouldn't be getting into any arguments about all this, let's just go with the flow for the time being. I have read enough arguments about different issues over on the Dark Side, we don't want it filtrating onto these forums.

I get the concerns of Angelis, he cares for this game! Aren't we all!? [heart]
I think UGC and the 'content library' need to be in the game from day one of release (Frontier could implement it during the early access). This way, if they are doing to do it, it will be integrated into the game in the best possible way.

Away with the dark side. Do not let the dark side in!

Instead, take a look on this beautiful piece of Light and Happiness!