Proposal Discussion Possible Solution to Open/Solo Play Issue
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Having dipped my toe in solo mode mainly because it was a new button and needed to be pressed (same as self destruct which, well....destructed me) I have come away from this debate a little underwhelmed. After a short time I was straight back into online play.
While I can see why some people may need that game mode and others may prefer it I cannot be the only one who found it distinctly less colourful than online, in that I mean it just didn't feel that I was a part of the greater ED experience. For those that are concerned that players will use it as a rat run to bigger and better ships and equipment sure, it's possible but realistically I do not perceive the advantages to be so much greater over online as are sometimes being portrayed.
For those who want everyone in the same sandbox because they want to play their own way, namely have an endless supply of PC's to chew on I can see why they get the shuffles over solo mode, as it effectively neuters them should other players choose to use it. Once again, in reality I doubt that the effect will be really perceptible, especially as the map opens up and PvP contact becomes less and less common unless by grouping or at galactic choke points (Lave, Sol etc).
I just do not think this is the monster in the cupboard that it is being made out to be.
While I can see why some people may need that game mode and others may prefer it I cannot be the only one who found it distinctly less colourful than online, in that I mean it just didn't feel that I was a part of the greater ED experience. For those that are concerned that players will use it as a rat run to bigger and better ships and equipment sure, it's possible but realistically I do not perceive the advantages to be so much greater over online as are sometimes being portrayed.
For those who want everyone in the same sandbox because they want to play their own way, namely have an endless supply of PC's to chew on I can see why they get the shuffles over solo mode, as it effectively neuters them should other players choose to use it. Once again, in reality I doubt that the effect will be really perceptible, especially as the map opens up and PvP contact becomes less and less common unless by grouping or at galactic choke points (Lave, Sol etc).
I just do not think this is the monster in the cupboard that it is being made out to be.
Its only an issue for the 'pure' PvP crowd. They think that online Solo gives their opponents an advantage. As if they couldnt do the same themselves...
Yes because right now in S.beta nobody is in ALL and everyone is trading using online calculators in solo mode, nearly evreyone has 5 million credits and lakon. In fact right now i am alt tabbed trading making 200 units of 3k profit.
Another solution to a none existant problem as solo saves don't carry into multiplayer anyways.
Just sounds like another "pure" :eyeroll: PvP griefer isn't getting his daily dose, so wants to change the mechanics to suit his play style.
Just sounds like another "pure" :eyeroll: PvP griefer isn't getting his daily dose, so wants to change the mechanics to suit his play style.
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Absolutely. Their "best-intentions" arguments are nonsense, citing "no risk" when we all know that these "core competitive gamers" do everything in their power to minimise risk completely - targeting defenseless players time and time again and meta-gaming any system they possibly can to further minimise risk and actual challenge. They're little Napoleons with the internet imo.
I'm not soured to pvp play, or "afraid" I've been playing in the All group in a ZPH with no lasers, and my shields down to save fuel
The only difference I can see between solo and all, riskwise, is that in all there's a risk of being unfairly killed outside a station or the likes. (Although it's probably less likely now with the upgraded station defenses
)When I've willingly entered combat, there's no difference to me whether I'm fighting an NPC or player - some are good, some suck. Aside form the hollow blip, it would be hard to determine, glitches/bugs aside.
I look at ED as an essentially singleplayer experience with added player interaction occasionally. This seems to align relatively closely with what I have read in the DDF and also from DB himself, as others have noted (griefer quote)
Elite isn't, and never pretended to be, an MLG, noscope, lulz umadbro? l33t5k1ll5 epic 6v6 last man standing deathmatch arena game.
Perfect!
Yes they do.
Solo online is technically just a private group of one, you can switch freely between a private group and the all group.
Only solo offline players are totally isolated from the multiplayer universe.
I have said this before, and I guess i'll keep saying it until it sinks into some peoples skulls. (thick as they are it may take a while).
100k+ human occupied systems, encompassing (i'm guessing here) 200k-500k stations.
100 BILLION systems occupied by 400 BILLION stars
tens of TRILLIONS of planets with HUNDREDS of TRILLIONS encounters around them.
ALL of this so MAYBE 200k people can play, of which I doubt there will ever be more than 50k online at any given time
There will literally be no difference in solo online play and the "All Group"
the Idea from a PvE'r perspective that there will be a ganker wait outside every station, behind every asteroid and trailing you through every jump is Paranoia at its worst.
The idea from a PvP'rs point of view that they will be doing much else than EXACTLY what the PvE'r is doing is megalomania at best.
with such a huge game, the chance you actually run into a situation like what yall are describing is slim and none (and slim is starving to death) unless you exclusively play in the starter systems you may see a person only when you specifically ask them to show up at a point, and at best a PvP'r is going to get real good at killing NPC's
100k+ human occupied systems, encompassing (i'm guessing here) 200k-500k stations.
100 BILLION systems occupied by 400 BILLION stars
tens of TRILLIONS of planets with HUNDREDS of TRILLIONS encounters around them.
ALL of this so MAYBE 200k people can play, of which I doubt there will ever be more than 50k online at any given time
There will literally be no difference in solo online play and the "All Group"
the Idea from a PvE'r perspective that there will be a ganker wait outside every station, behind every asteroid and trailing you through every jump is Paranoia at its worst.
The idea from a PvP'rs point of view that they will be doing much else than EXACTLY what the PvE'r is doing is megalomania at best.
with such a huge game, the chance you actually run into a situation like what yall are describing is slim and none (and slim is starving to death) unless you exclusively play in the starter systems you may see a person only when you specifically ask them to show up at a point, and at best a PvP'r is going to get real good at killing NPC's
I just started today. I'm playing in ALL. I've seen other players almost every time I dock. I've yet to be attacked, If I am I plan to run like a girly man, for now. I'm not trading using online calculators. In my first few hours of play I've learned to fly well enough to travel station to station and increased my 'fortune' to a staggering 10k!
The problem with discussions like this is that people often make all kinds of assertions and appeals to consequences without any evidence. As if stating a thing makes it so.
I very seriously doubt I will ever leave ALL, even though I'm not a gung ho PvPer. It just wouldn't be as fun for me to preclude interactions with other players. But if you want to lurk alt tabbed in solo while you pile up a fortune and come out later I don't mind.
+1 Well said. They just aren't getting it. Understandable but frustrating.
Fairness in PvP seems to be a very limited concept. Surely if fairness is your motto, you should be demanding that PvP is only allowed between ships of the same type with the same armaments and with those who have played the game for roughly the same amount of time. And don't forget, you also shouldn't be playing at times when the majority of other players are tucked up in bed.
You see if I come across a tooled up Anaconda, I won't be mentally trying to decide whether the pilot is human or AI, a pure all group player, a solo/all group player or a solo player who's snuck into the all group, I'll be running like fun because Elite is a game where running away is sometimes the smartest option.
You see if I come across a tooled up Anaconda, I won't be mentally trying to decide whether the pilot is human or AI, a pure all group player, a solo/all group player or a solo player who's snuck into the all group, I'll be running like fun because Elite is a game where running away is sometimes the smartest option.
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I have zero interest in PvP but so long as it is not a gankfest I will mostly be in all....... Inc when I dabble in a hauler . IMO there is no issue with the groups and it would be a disaster to change them.
i've played EVE since '04 and for several years, so i know where you are coming from
to answer the question, for me one incentive is the feeling of a living universe, when i see other players just dokcing, landing whatever, and the potential interaction with them, in what way ever
what else should be the incentive? more power, more wealth, more kills?
really? well, to some extent, but actually this mechanic just blocks people from experiencing the whole galaxy. you cannot fly a hauler into deep-space and expect anything else than being ganked by a 30man blob or even bigger.
it also leads utlimately to not only group play, but to amassing huge numbers of players until it becomes a game of numbers only and exciting engangements are scarce, because this risk-vs-reward-system creates the urge to get a bigger group than your opponent, minimizing the risk. there's the loophole of the EVE sandbox.
(i know there are many people who want small gang warfare, but actually it's very difficult, i've been there, doing PVP mostly in those years)
also, apart from the early beginnings, space never felt big and empty and no exploration possible
in the end, it all gets very serious, and very much not a game, which i agree it is one of the beauties of EVE, but also one of it's biggest flaws
Well yes, player interaction is the main thing in open play really. And I am worried it won't be as dynamic and extensive as it could be, if a lot of actions are taken in the solo/group mode and then transitioned to open play. Things like mining rare minerals, maybe under the protection of a combat equipped friend, or just generally most money making processes. If you don't have to take that added risk, why would you? I have my doubts that the feeling of a living universe would be enough. And besides, I don't understand why we need a playstyle possibility that encourages this kind of solo/open world jumping.
Yeah, small scale PvP was the rarely realized dream in EVE, and one of the reasons (together with CCP losing their ways somewhat with the focus of the game) why I got tired and quit playing it.
In Elite that problem would be much smaller, due to the size of the galaxy. So I don't see why keeping all activities related to open play shouldn't be kept strictly to open play. Why even offer up that alternative for transition? I simply don't understand who we are catering to here. If you like solo or small group, fine. If you like open world, then that open world should contain all the actions that affect the commanders in it.
I guess I'll have to wait and see how it pans out, but this was a bit unexpected.
But does it really matter if it doesn't?
that's false, I'm in the all group with a Lakon 6, I'm seeing humans at every stations on my trades route, most in Hauler or Lakon 6, a few in Sidewinders.
when I've use the Viper to do bounty hunting in anarchist systems, I've meet other humans in Vipers and Cobras, make sense there.
what I've not seen yet is human pirate in civilized space, seems that they are transformed to space dust to quickly by the police forces
so the online/offline is not the reason here, when we get the ability to interdict other players, things will change, but ATM if I was in the mood to attack human traders, I could easily find a lot of them in the "all group", but I just won't survive the attack...
nats
Banned
I thought that is the way its supposed to be in the final game isnt it? I dont think the solo option will be online play in the final game, but I suppose they may provide it as an option still. But AFAIK there has always meant to be solo offline mode provided for people who want to play completely offline.
At the moment though the solos online mode seems to be the only way to play the game with any stability. Froze twice in online mode yesterday but not at all when I went to solo mode.
I repped the OP because on one level I agree with him. I'm not sure I like group switching (depending on how things play out).
But on the other hand, it's important to a lot of people and if they go play SOLO to get some practise then join us in ALL with their fancy ships, well it makes ALL more fun.
So I agree, but I'm not fussed enough to make it one of my 'argue the hell out it' 'the line must be drawn here' (I'm looking at you Transponder and Goon) threads.
But on the other hand, it's important to a lot of people and if they go play SOLO to get some practise then join us in ALL with their fancy ships, well it makes ALL more fun.
So I agree, but I'm not fussed enough to make it one of my 'argue the hell out it' 'the line must be drawn here' (I'm looking at you Transponder and Goon) threads.