Powerplay Power Play (my take)

Let try Not keep it civil, as much as I have my own point of view, would like to hear others, Especially when it come to open vs solo/pg in regards too power play.(I know it’s a hot topic)

Power play should be an end game, game play. Open to all and take into account all the methods Elite has to offer (within reason, that will be cleared up later).

It’s doesn’t really have any effect on peoples game play if they don’t want to take part, apart from weapons/modules and discounts, maybe fines and black markets… most of the other befits are minor, and require you to take part in PP to gain rank and sustain it, in order to benefit (Bounty buffs and so on)

Power player is meant to be one of the bigger ways to shape the galaxy, via player actions (player and system). Yes we have the BGS (and its issue) but PP is its own little game. It’s also great for Role-play and ‘justified’ player combat (I know, what it justified combat, its anything… but hay, I will run with it)

There is a lot open to all modes, and it brings it own issues. A good example would be, I spent 4 weeks attacking the influence of one faction, in open (4 WEEKS!) yes I hardly made a dent (didn’t think I would).

That would be okay apart from the opposing faction (who shall rename nameless as well as gutless) never once showed up. I saw other factions and players, but no one of their faction… but they were quite active, mining and cashing in, CZ , all in the safety of solo/PG

This is how it is with the BGS, has to be I guess, else there would not be enough players to power the simulation, and only the brave would steer it’s direction (yes this includes traders willing to go in open)

But my interaction with the BGS as a player was…. I kill ships do mission and never once bump into my opponents, even though it was the holiday season, and I had a lot of time to spend and an obsession to test it out.

But this is not about the BGS, let them have that :)

-On to power play
As far as balance across modes, it’s very lob-sided. Someone willing to take power play into open only, has a much reduced effect on the game Vs private groups and Solo. Sure you can say this is a choice, and it is. But there could be some balancing.

In solo and PG, you can mine a few 100mill (I like the easy cash, makes the game fun), then run huge cargo runs even in shieldless vessel. With minimum risk. NPC interdictions are easy to avoid, and escaping them just as easy. It’s low risk for high reward (Elite moto :p)

In open, if I choose to trade cargo, I have to run it past anyone that may be defending a system. I have earn my influence, If make it past a blockade (but, mode switching.. but instancing – yeah will get to that later)

I watched one person buy 720 pp cargo, and fly it to a location in solo… Chances of me catching them if they were in open, not height, but if a system was standing guard, the odds of the ship getting though are lowered by quite a bit, and would such a cmdr even try such a thing. (and they pretty much did it till the system was fortified)

You see… the solo aspect has undermined part of the PP game play, in what should be an endgame mechanic, where the best (or at least experienced players) are shaping the galactic powers, and not just any old player that has got a big transport in solo.

It takes away what should be a rewarding part of the game. Yes I know some players find manipulating PP in solo rewarding, but is that right? After all, you’ve been given the BGS on the same grounds… how about a system that reward the skilful and organised?

Not everyone will be able to make a big impact on PP, if it switches from: who has the most free time in solo/PG to, who has the best pilots (Across all trades, this is not just PvP).

Open is tuff, and a mix of people, some Interacting in a fun ways , a minority ganking (and some of them may feel more ’targeted’ in their victims, if PP was meaningful – it relates to Yoga pants –long story :p)
Been in this game a long time, and I wasn’t always the supreme Elite player I am today :) and I spent a lot of time in solo, just don’t wanna mix with people. But as I got more confident and ‘gud’ I started to move to open, and finally started a new account that’s 100% open (I progressed in game experience).

Open is Elite on its hardest settings, and that’s where power play belongs… to have to take on all it throws at you, in order to shape PP (remember the cash prizes in elite, all had to be done in open…the full Elite experience with all its risk)-(that include gankers, yet in 200+ hours, a new account, I haven’t been ganked once… experience and listening to advice – nor died to a player, yet :p)

Don’t wanna be in open? (I still explore on my first account in solo, but that not killing PP), that’s cool, we all have reasons… but lets reward people that want the highest challenge Elite has to offer, and not undermine it because of some who feel unsafe facing a challenge (or cus of a few gankers picking on the weak, the weak who I guess should not really be steering the galaxy :p)

So many people are against wasted time in pointless grinds (lot of that has been addressed) why is pp about the grinding of cargo in private, over skill and risk… and the side with the most free time wins?

The ‘’Elite’’ Should be shaping Power play – not people in the safety of PG and solo (< this, I would like to hear the counter argument on, I’m sure there is one)

And if you made it throw all that. Just some minor point on adjusting for PPOO (power play open only)
Cargo
-Once cargo it bought, and can only be bought in open, If you switch mode… by choice or by mistake, the cargo become biowaste (let’s face it, imperial cargo is nearly there anyways)
-Cargo can be pirated and delivered to the destination it was meant to go, if deliver by an opposing power; it reduces fortification… even if that fortification had been 100%. < Mainly to add some game play.
-As the risk is now much higher in Open only, Cargo allocation should be boosted. This means that people who are lesser experience, with smaller ship and no easy mining cash, can still get in on the deal.
As we want to move away from time sinks and toward risk/skill and reward. So if you can get 40 cargo past a blocked in open, in a cobra mark IV… you should not have to sit in a station for ages, waiting for the cargo to generate, or have to fork out cash, that you then have to go and get back (probably in another time sink) – The used of cash is a diversion of risk in some cases, as you can do that in solo… but maybe that’s fair enough (thoughts)

combat.. I like it how it is 


other power play function of influence I’m not aware of (and there may be many) feel free to bring them up and see what we can do about it

And warning, there may be snark, and Role-played anti imperialism :)

TLDR; Then don’t join the discussion please.
 
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Are you new to powerplay? There was a major discussion last year where one of the devs entertained a possible open bonus change while still keeping solo and pg powerplay intact then it was sort of left at that with no new word since. pp was generally intended to be where usually just one cmdr makes a very small contribution to a powerplay activity where it often takes coordinated goals and effort per the weekly tick to effect major powerplay effects. Anyways, I'll just get my popcorn and drink. If this thread continues, there could likely be some ensuing salty discussion/debate on the idea of open vs. non-open pp :)
 
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Are you new to powerplay? There was a major discussion last year where one of the devs entertained a possible open bonus change while still keeping solo and pg powerplay intact then it was sort of left at that with no new word since. It was intended to be where usually just one cmdr makes a very small contribution to a powerplay activity where it often takes coordinated goals per the weekly tick to effect major powerplay effects. Anyways, I'll just get my popcorn and drink. If this thread continues, there could likely be some ensuing salty discussion/debate on the idea of open vs. non-open pp :)
Not new, but did take a brake last year... in fact it was 42 week brake, according to the power-play i singed up to before i left. This is why i made a thread called 'my take', not what the devs said. And hopefully i will get some good feedback to my ideas, and brought up to speed, and maybe even see why people are against am open only PP mode.
 
Well then, I prefer the dev's revised suggestions in those threads last year than your 'take'. It was also suggested that pp haulage cargo taken into open be void as well with a lot of back and forth debate, but then it seemed to be dropped because most were against it.
 
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Well then, I prefer the dev's revised suggestions in those threads last year than your 'take'. It was also suggested that pp haulage cargo taken into open be void as well with a lot of back and forth debate, but then it seemed to be dropped because most were against it.
Maybe i will find-out why people are so against the idea of open only competition. Like back when we had the cash prises for getting elite rank first. It was seen as fair that all should have a chance to interact with their opponents, and anyone in solo or PG would not be eligible for the prize. Didn't wanna go open, didn't get a chance at the prize (I would like PP to be like that)

I bring this up because it shows that Elite is aware of the fairness of competition. And maybe Power play isn't meant to be that...
Maybe it so all level of players have equal outcome(via modes) and not an endgame thing, but i guess if Fdev would clear that up;
That power player not about the 'best of the best' in elite, steering the powers... like it was the 'Best of the best' that got cash prizes

I can see why some are against it, it would really change the bubble. So few imperials out there, so many fed... at first i thought, maybe they are out doing things ... as we are at their home system, and saw no imp.. I though maybe its the same in federal space, with imperials all over it... nah, all federal over there as well

You see, with our skill-full pilots in PvP and trading. If all was in open, and we all had to take the same risk... skill would win out and the empire would fall.

in-fact it would be right down the table, see a lot of other power already in open. oh... if only the game was fair :)

Other faction seem to be leaving the feds alone (most the time) and we are all after the empire. It would be so interesting, but they are safe, shuttling cargo in solo :) I guess i would be worried for my power as well, if all that stud between victory and total failure was a game mode :p
 
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Let try Not keep it civil, as much as I have my own point of view, would like to hear others, Especially when it come to open vs solo/pg in regards too power play.(I know it’s a hot topic)

Power play should be an end game, game play. Open to all and take into account all the methods Elite has to offer (within reason, that will be cleared up later).

It’s doesn’t really have any effect on peoples game play if they don’t want to take part, apart from weapons/modules and discounts, maybe fines and black markets… most of the other befits are minor, and require you to take part in PP to gain rank and sustain it, in order to benefit (Bounty buffs and so on)

Power player is meant to be one of the bigger ways to shape the galaxy, via player actions (player and system). Yes we have the BGS (and its issue) but PP is its own little game. It’s also great for Role-play and ‘justified’ player combat (I know, what it justified combat, its anything… but hay, I will run with it)

There is a lot open to all modes, and it brings it own issues. A good example would be, I spent 4 weeks attacking the influence of one faction, in open (4 WEEKS!) yes I hardly made a dent (didn’t think I would).

That would be okay apart from the opposing faction (who shall rename nameless as well as gutless) never once showed up. I saw other factions and players, but no one of their faction… but they were quite active, mining and cashing in, CZ , all in the safety of solo/PG

This is how it is with the BGS, has to be I guess, else there would not be enough players to power the simulation, and only the brave would steer it’s direction (yes this includes traders willing to go in open)

But my interaction with the BGS as a player was…. I kill ships do mission and never once bump into my opponents, even though it was the holiday season, and I had a lot of time to spend and an obsession to test it out.

But this is not about the BGS, let them have that :)

-On to power play
As far as balance across modes, it’s very lob-sided. Someone willing to take power play into open only, has a much reduced effect on the game Vs private groups and Solo. Sure you can say this is a choice, and it is. But there could be some balancing.

In solo and PG, you can mine a few 100mill (I like the easy cash, makes the game fun), then run huge cargo runs even in shieldless vessel. With minimum risk. NPC interdictions are easy to avoid, and escaping them just as easy. It’s low risk for high reward (Elite moto :p)

In open, if I choose to trade cargo, I have to run it past anyone that may be defending a system. I have earn my influence, If make it past a blockade (but, mode switching.. but instancing – yeah will get to that later)

I watched one person buy 720 pp cargo, and fly it to a location in solo… Chances of me catching them if they were in open, not height, but if a system was standing guard, the odds of the ship getting though are lowered by quite a bit, and would such a cmdr even try such a thing. (and they pretty much did it till the system was fortified)

You see… the solo aspect has undermined part of the PP game play, in what should be an endgame mechanic, where the best (or at least experienced players) are shaping the galactic powers, and not just any old player that has got a big transport in solo.

It takes away what should be a rewarding part of the game. Yes I know some players find manipulating PP in solo rewarding, but is that right? After all, you’ve been given the BGS on the same grounds… how about a system that reward the skilful and organised?

Not everyone will be able to make a big impact on PP, if it switches from: who has the most free time in solo/PG to, who has the best pilots (Across all trades, this is not just PvP).

Open is tuff, and a mix of people, some Interacting in a fun ways , a minority ganking (and some of them may feel more ’targeted’ in their victims, if PP was meaningful – it relates to Yoga pants –long story :p)
Been in this game a long time, and I wasn’t always the supreme Elite player I am today :) and I spent a lot of time in solo, just don’t wanna mix with people. But as I got more confident and ‘gud’ I started to move to open, and finally started a new account that’s 100% open (I progressed in game experience).

Open is Elite on its hardest settings, and that’s where power play belongs… to have to take on all it throws at you, in order to shape PP (remember the cash prizes in elite, all had to be done in open…the full Elite experience with all its risk)-(that include gankers, yet in 200+ hours, a new account, I haven’t been ganked once… experience and listening to advice – nor died to a player, yet :p)

Don’t wanna be in open? (I still explore on my first account in solo, but that not killing PP), that’s cool, we all have reasons… but lets reward people that want the highest challenge Elite has to offer, and not undermine it because of some who feel unsafe facing a challenge (or cus of a few gankers picking on the weak, the weak who I guess should not really be steering the galaxy :p)

So many people are against wasted time in pointless grinds (lot of that has been addressed) why is pp about the grinding of cargo in private, over skill and risk… and the side with the most free time wins?

The ‘’Elite’’ Should be shaping Power play – not people in the safety of PG and solo (< this, I would like to hear the counter argument on, I’m sure there is one)

And if you made it throw all that. Just some minor point on adjusting for PPOO (power play open only)
Cargo
-Once cargo it bought, and can only be bought in open, If you switch mode… by choice or by mistake, the cargo become biowaste (let’s face it, imperial cargo is nearly there anyways)
-Cargo can be pirated and delivered to the destination it was meant to go, if deliver by an opposing power; it reduces fortification… even if that fortification had been 100%. < Mainly to add some game play.
-As the risk is now much higher in Open only, Cargo allocation should be boosted. This means that people who are lesser experience, with smaller ship and no easy mining cash, can still get in on the deal.
As we want to move away from time sinks and toward risk/skill and reward. So if you can get 40 cargo past a blocked in open, in a cobra mark IV… you should not have to sit in a station for ages, waiting for the cargo to generate, or have to fork out cash, that you then have to go and get back (probably in another time sink) – The used of cash is a diversion of risk in some cases, as you can do that in solo… but maybe that’s fair enough (thoughts)

combat.. I like it how it is 


other power play function of influence I’m not aware of (and there may be many) feel free to bring them up and see what we can do about it

And warning, there may be snark, and Role-played anti imperialism :)

TLDR; Then don’t join the discussion please.
Don't waste your time with this.
 
Maybe i will find-out why people are so against the idea of open only competition. Like back when we had the cash prises for getting elite rank first. It was seen as fair that all should have a chance to interact with their opponents, and anyone in solo or PG would not be eligible for the prize. Didn't wanna go open, didn't get a chance at the prize (I would like PP to be like that)

I bring this up because it shows that Elite is aware of the fairness of competition. And maybe Power play isn't meant to be that...
Maybe it so all level of players have equal outcome(via modes) and not an endgame thing, but i guess if Fdev would clear that up;
That power player not about the 'best of the best' in elite, steering the powers... like it was the 'Best of the best' that got cash prizes

I can see why some are against it, it would really change the bubble. So few imperials out there, so many fed... at first i thought, maybe they are out doing things ... as we are at their home system, and saw no imp.. I though maybe its the same in federal space, with imperials all over it... nah, all federal over there as well

You see, with our skill-full pilots in PvP and trading. If all was in open, and we all had to take the same risk... skill would win out and the empire would fall.

in-fact it would be right down the table, see a lot of other power already in open. oh... if only the game was fair :)

Other faction seem to be leaving the feds alone (most the time) and we are all after the empire. It would be so interesting, but they are safe, shuttling cargo in solo :) I guess i would be worried for my power as well, if all that stud between victory and total failure was a game mode :p
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/282-Powerplay

^^^ Flash Topics are the chats mentioned above.

On the technical side of things "Open Only" doesn't solve the fact the game is multi-platform (so PS4 Open, XB1 Open and PC Open).
Plus people can put defenders/attackers on a "Block List" to reduce the chances of being instanced with them.
So while you are trying to figure out what platform people are moving PP cargo about, the ones on your current platform can just pop you on a block and fly right past you.
And none of this covers the technical cheating some do to fly in Open while not seeing anyone, exploiting the weaknesses of Peer to Peer networking.

Short version: too much Dev work for a very little player reward afterwards.

As for the other chat regarding "Open Bonuses for the extra danger" that always boils back to the same few comments;

1) "The extra danger you want is the reward for playing Open"
2) "PvP'ers keep telling us mode users there is no danger in Open so we should play there, so which is it because it cannot be both?"

So this is a summary of those threads. I'd suggest you look through them anyway, as there are other ponits made besides this little write up.
 
pretty much what Jockey said.

I'm a bit more optimistic in that I think Open PP would attract people to play in Open, the majority of which would not use loopholes to make Open = PG/Solo as described above. As much as CMDRs are lone pilots I think the social groups have demonstrated that they can and will organise a mass of CMDRs to act together and have an effect. (Ofc it could be argued that a particularly charismatic leader could encourage a whole group to use the loopholes mentioned above)

I think the Dev work J-unit mentions above is key - Developer time vs reward. It would be a gamble and I think they're too risk averse.

Maybe surprisingly I am against Open bonuses because they don't tie into a wider narrative. I think PP Open only WOULD give a wider (optional) narrative for CMDRs, but the technical challenges are too expensive time wise to implement - as would be the constant overhauling and patches to make it "fair".
 
I like the way solo is a shard of the same server but if inventories and everything of value is linked to the open shard than the open shard is social only. I love eve and i only left because i got space sick and needed to play a real character. This game has more character content albeit limited and has the ship piloting but if noone plays open and i cant get my stealthy gank avoidance game on in the end than i dont think im gonna sink any more time in. I want the pvp pirate player to gank me so i know its a real threat. The sweet isnt as sweet without the sour, after all.
 
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/282-Powerplay

^^^ Flash Topics are the chats mentioned above.

On the technical side of things "Open Only" doesn't solve the fact the game is multi-platform (so PS4 Open, XB1 Open and PC Open).
Plus people can put defenders/attackers on a "Block List" to reduce the chances of being instanced with them.
So while you are trying to figure out what platform people are moving PP cargo about, the ones on your current platform can just pop you on a block and fly right past you.
And none of this covers the technical cheating some do to fly in Open while not seeing anyone, exploiting the weaknesses of Peer to Peer networking.

Short version: too much Dev work for a very little player reward afterwards.

As for the other chat regarding "Open Bonuses for the extra danger" that always boils back to the same few comments;

1) "The extra danger you want is the reward for playing Open"
2) "PvP'ers keep telling us mode users there is no danger in Open so we should play there, so which is it because it cannot be both?"

So this is a summary of those threads. I'd suggest you look through them anyway, as there are other ponits made besides this little write up.
thanks for pointing me to more info :)
 
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