Powerplay fix

[GluttonyFang]

That confirms you misunderstood what I said. We play the game but constantly we are reminded that it does not work as intended.

The problem we are having is that FDevs tell us things are working as intended when they clearly present nothing but their incompetence and uninformed status of their team. Then we are suspecting their "fixing" of PP to be an arbitrary, deliberate manipulation of data out of favoritism.

It does not matter for which Power things are broken, or if any appear to receive beneficial treatment. As long as one Power is disadvantaged we all play through more flawed turns and this is never going to be a good thing.

Hence why there should be the consideration of urgency and avoidance of favoritism. No one is opposing fixing the game's bugs, but we want to make sure they are actually fixing the game, not doing some backdoor business. The assurance of that, if anything, is the most important part in a competitive game.

The poster I responded too asked why we don't just unpledge and walk. So many of us are invested in outside groups through the game. Leaving PP, especially when in a group that now exists because of PP feels like turning your back on the players you've found to actually play the game with. It's got nothing to do with ignoring other groups, or more fundamentally, the Powers that have flawed game processes hamstringing them.

This part I did not disagree with.

You now seem to be asking Imperials to give you a hug.

*Hugs*

I just kicked off a flea from the back of my ear, but okay. *Hug*

 

[GNThrone]

Everyone else has been asking about it, except the Empire. We have been saying for ages that the Imperial powers should be allowed to fight each other exactly due to how much difference in ethos they display.

But the Imperial representatives claim for a unity that can't exist in any realistic scenario and proceed their plans as if it can.

And once again the Empire has it their way and the discouragement of the factions being able to fight each other remains.

So go ahead, gather the Aisling community and make a thread as big as your bug complaint about Syntheng asking for FD to change the undermining rules so that Aisling can fight with Arissa and put the claim to the throne fight to an end.

It might just happen.

Come on, you're being too hard on FD.

Imperial Power player leaders calling for unity and FD not enabling conflict between imperial powers cannot be related to each other in the way you did.

For one thing, the thought of enabling conflict between imperial powers might not have occurred to them.

Our claim for unity can in no way be used to prove that FD is preventing imperial powers from duking it out.

Well as one of the leaders for AD promoting unity, doing what you're suggesting will destroy my credibility - so I won't do that. You can always do that yourself if you wanted to.

If you conclude that: "FD will not listen to me because I'm not an imperial player." That would be paradoxical.

 

[Apos]

Come on, you're being too hard on FD.

Imperial Power player leaders calling for unity and FD not enabling conflict between imperial powers cannot be related to each other in the way you did.

For one thing, the thought of enabling conflict between imperial powers might not have occurred to them.

Our claim for unity can in no way be used to prove that FD is preventing imperial powers from duking it out.

Well as one of the leaders for AD promoting unity, doing what you're suggesting will destroy my credibility - so I won't do that. You can always do that yourself if you wanted to.

And that's why I will always call Imperials a bunch of hypocrites.

I'm telling you that FD is promoting the Imperial unity because the Imperial supporters want it and the opinions of other factions don't matter, thus it's the Imperials themselves who should request. You reply that it's not true. Then you tell me that I should be the one asking it. Do I look like an Imperial to you? Not to mention that I've already told you that everybody else has ALREADY asked it. Do you even comprehend what you read?

And before that, you are claiming that Imperial powers can't follow their ethos exactly how they should, because FD is discouraging interaction with each others and that game/lore is in complete disconnect. Then you follow up by saying that you support Imperial unity. While being am Aisling supporter who should be in complete disgust of Torval just existing and hostile against Arissa due to the throne claim. YOU ARE PART OF THE PEOPLE WHO CAUSE THE DISCONNECT.

Seriously, I'm holding myself back a lot right now so that I disdain from calling you anything more than a plain hypocrite. You keep on twisting anything to suit your needs of an argument, never having any cohesiveness or connection. You can't imagine how envious I am of Gluttony's ability to keep his calm right now.

Like I said in a previous reply. The imperials will always twist their RP to suit their in-game benefits and never their actions to suit their RP. I hope the Empire gets to suffer their inevitable fate of collapse soon so that we can finally get some story going then, because I'll go as far as calling them a plague to the story development at this point. Off with the disease.

 

[GNThrone]

And that's why I will always call Imperials a bunch of hypocrites.

I find being called a hypocrite by you very offensive.

I'm telling you that FD is promoting the Imperial unity because the Imperial supporters want it and the opinions of other factions don't matter, thus it's the Imperials themselves who should request. You reply that it's not true. Then you tell me that I should be the one asking it. DO I LOOK LIKE AN IMPERIAL TO YOU?

You're being paranoid and unreasonable. Of course I won't ask for it because that would be detrimental to the image I maintain among imperial players. Concluding that FD is promoting imperial unity from imperial supporters promoting unity is a fallacy.

Your allegiance will not disable you from asking for it. So go ahead and start a thread and ask for it.

And before that, you are claiming that Imperial powers can't follow their ethos exactly because FD is discouraging interaction with each others. Then you follow up by saying that you support Imperial unity. While being am Aisling supporter who should be in complete disgust of Torval just existing and hostile against Arissa due to the throne claim.

You're pretty much dictating how our beliefs should be based on our powerplay allegiance. You cannot dictate the beliefs of other people. I may be an Aisling supporter but I am against imperial infighting. YOU ARE IN NO CAPACITY OR POSITION TO DICTATE WHAT I BELIEVE IN.

Seriously, I'm holding myself back a lot right now so that I disdain from calling you anything more than a plain hypocrite. You keep on twisting anything to suit your needs of an argument, never having any cohesiveness or connection.

Like I said in a previous reply. The imperials will always twist their RP to suit their in-game benefits and never their actions to suit their RP.

You have an image of what an imperial player is burned in your mind. Each player is unique. By extension, each imperial supporter is unique. RP-wise, I'd call your behavior racism.


@GluttonyFang: I'd love to hear your read of Apos based on his forum posts but the moderators already told us that we shouldn't talk psychoanalysis here

 

[Gswine]

The problem we are having is that FDevs tell us things are working as intended when they clearly present nothing but their incompetence and uninformed status of their team. Then we are suspecting their "fixing" of PP to be an arbitrary, deliberate manipulation of data out of favoritism.



Hence why there should be the consideration of urgency and avoidance of favoritism. No one is opposing fixing the game's bugs, but we want to make sure they are actually fixing the game, not doing some backdoor business. The assurance of that, if anything, is the most important part in a competitive game.



This part I did not disagree with.



I just kicked off a flea from the back of my ear, but okay. *Hug*

We seem to agree on wanting to see things fixed, maybe even just some verification from FD on whats going on? I'm going to quote Apos but not exactly reply just to him (bad form but please excuse)

And that's why I will always call Imperials a bunch of hypocrites.

I'm telling you that FD is promoting the Imperial unity because the Imperial supporters want it and the opinions of other factions don't matter, thus it's the Imperials themselves who should request. You reply that it's not true. Then you tell me that I should be the one asking it. Do I look like an Imperial to you? Not to mention that I've already told you that everybody else has ALREADY asked it. Do you even comprehend what you read?

And before that, you are claiming that Imperial powers can't follow their ethos exactly how they should, because FD is discouraging interaction with each others and that game/lore is in complete disconnect. Then you follow up by saying that you support Imperial unity. While being am Aisling supporter who should be in complete disgust of Torval just existing and hostile against Arissa due to the throne claim. YOU ARE PART OF THE PEOPLE WHO CAUSE THE DISCONNECT.

Seriously, I'm holding myself back a lot right now so that I disdain from calling you anything more than a plain hypocrite. You keep on twisting anything to suit your needs of an argument, never having any cohesiveness or connection. You can't imagine how envious I am of Gluttony's ability to keep his calm right now.

Like I said in a previous reply. The imperials will always twist their RP to suit their in-game benefits and never their actions to suit their RP. I hope the Empire gets to suffer their inevitable fate of collapse soon so that we can finally get some story going then, because I'll go as far as calling them a plague to the story development at this point. Off with the disease.

So looking at posts again and Apos's recent ^ venomous reactions to being told by Imperials that we need fixes there is something deeper and more long rooted that I've not been privy too or properly exposed?


@Apos

You don't do yourself any favours with this post.

It literally reads "You Imperials no role play like I'd tell you to. Hmmpff!" It's kind of mad. No one has role played the fix, except those that call it a 'bailout' and actually use it as an RP mechanism rather than a term to describe what happened. Which is just you as I didn't think others who called it were actually RPing it till now. If that's how you feel then write a Galnet article about it and get it published in game.

Honestly I know no Imp player that RP's the retcons.

 

[Jenner]

I'm not sure we're fighting 'in fiction' or not here, but at any rate - settle down people.

 

[Apos]

I'm not sure we're fighting 'in fiction' or not here, but at any rate - settle down people.

Removed then, so that this comes to a cease.

 

[GNThrone]

I'm not sure we're fighting 'in fiction' or not here, but at any rate - settle down people.

Roger that

 

[Jenner]

I (and the Empire) thank you all.

 

[Apos]

So looking at posts again and Apos's recent ^ venomous reactions to being told by Imperials that we need fixes there is something deeper and more long rooted that I've not been privy too or properly exposed?


@Apos

You don't do yourself any favours with this post.

It literally reads "You Imperials no role play like I'd tell you to. Hmmpff!" It's kind of mad. No one has role played the fix, except those that call it a 'bailout' and actually use it as an RP mechanism rather than a term to describe what happened. Which is just you as I didn't think others who called it were actually RPing it till now. If that's how you feel then write a Galnet article about it and get it published in game.

Honestly I know no Imp player that RP's the retcons.

The point wasn't directly related to the CC fix. I'd be all for supporting it if FD shows us the analytics behind it and it's proven correct. I'm just waiting and there's a record in past time that creates the general distrust to the point where people like me and other posters here (if I may have their approval to include them in the generalization) want to be presented the evidence to believe.

That much I hope you can understand and relate to.

The rest of my point is related to other incidents that have to do with the development of the Empire, both in PP and lore. Like the assassination of the emperor being scrubbed off like nothing happened and Imperial unity being stronger than how much the Smurfs love each other. And yet FD is going along with it, yet most Imperial supporters like to pretend otherwise when it's brought up, even though it's quite obvious it's mostly excuses so that they continue having the most profitable commodity, the only actually useful modules, etc, etc. Although I don't know whether you individually fit in that category since I haven't seen much from your part there, so don't take it personally.

And it's especially tiresome for a person who chooses the opposite ideals and is continuously neglected so that others can have their basking and then go on to claim how awesome they are for having everything given to them.

- - - Updated - - -

@GluttonyFang: I'd love to hear your read of Apos based on his forum posts but the moderators already told us that we shouldn't talk psychoanalysis here

I'd actually want him to PM it to me if he isn't occupied with stealing innocent Alliance civilians. Also with some tips on controlling temper while at it please.

 

[Smurfprime]

Because numbers can be twisted to one's favor, we don't know whether they're using some sort of "actual" data or manipulated data and formula since we have the numbers to do the math and came to various conclusions that contradict what is given to us.

As long as they keep this sort of hidden mechanics behind close doors and claim that they are fixated mechanics all along, for all we know they are just arbitrarily changing things to exercise favoritism. Thus we demand that we are informed of how they reached their conclusion and their "fix."

I would love to have 100% faith in FD, but that is simply not the case with their behaviors and methodologies. Thus we would like to see some communication on the subject.

It is a fact that any software of this scope will have bugs and balance issues. Of that, I am 100% confident. This is not the first time they had to tweak things and it will not be the last. When problems crop up, bugs will need to be fixed and formulas adjusted to correct the problems, which is a good thing for the game as a whole.

What I really find interesting is that you are apparently so overwhelmed with schadenfreude that you feel the need to concoct and promote a pro-empire conspiracy theory to rationalize your asinine arguments and cover for your own feelings of inadequacy.

Just because the timing of that fix benefits your enemy(s) in the immediate situation; or more accurately--corrects a situation that never should have happened in the first place-- does not make it unjust nor is it evidence of Dev conclusion with any single faction or group of factions.

I could just as easily point to the timing of the gigantic merit increase for undermining and say the Devs were deliberately trying to screw Aisling's faction by painting a giant target on her back as soon as she got to the top rank. Obviously that merit increase benefits your merry band of slave-trading a$s-pirates more than Aisling's peaceful palladium traders right? Using your logic, that is definitely a Dev conspiracy.

Unfortunately for you, when you are in the back of the pack the view is always going to be the same. On the bright side, Torval is in #9 now. (Further evidence of a pro-empire agenda, right?) maybe your guys can man-up and go mug the little old grandma to get out of last place, that should be a real ego boost.

 

[Apos]

I could just as easily point to the timing of the gigantic merit increase for undermining and say the Devs were deliberately trying to screw Aisling's faction by painting a giant target on her back as soon as she got to the top rank. Obviously that merit increase benefits your merry band of slave-trading a$s-pirates more than Aisling's peaceful palladium traders right? Using your logic, that is definitely a Dev conspiracy.

Actually, you bring up quite an argument.

The merits increase happened just a little after the Empire claimed they would start undermining Archon!

Imperial bias approved. Maybe half life 3 as well.

Yes, it hurts them more, but you can't expect them to know it, otherwise they wouldn't be in such bad position that the slightest undermine gets them to turmoil. This pretty much shows: What the Empire asks, it gets.

By the way. Go to those smuggling hot spots and see for yourself whether it's imperial supporters or delaine supporters who do the smuggling. Just a suggestion, for reality's sake.

 

[Gswine]

The point wasn't directly related to the CC fix. I'd be all for supporting it if FD shows us the analytics behind it and it's proven correct. I'm just waiting and there's a record in past time that creates the general distrust to the point where people like me and other posters here (if I may have their approval to include them in the generalization) want to be presented the evidence to believe.

That much I hope you can understand and relate to.

The rest of my point is related to other incidents that have to do with the development of the Empire, both in PP and lore. Like the assassination of the emperor being scrubbed off like nothing happened and Imperial unity being stronger than how much the Smurfs love each other. And yet FD is going along with it, yet most Imperial supporters like to pretend otherwise when it's brought up, even though it's quite obvious it's mostly excuses so that they continue having the most profitable commodity, the only actually useful modules, etc, etc. Although I don't know whether you individually fit in that category since I haven't seen much from your part there, so don't take it personally.

And it's especially tiresome for a person who chooses the opposite ideals and is continuously neglected so that others can have their basking and then go on to claim how awesome they are for having everything given to them.

"That much I hope you can understand and relate to." I think I do. For myself on a personal level all the changes made at the end or, even more, those made in the middle of a turn have been total immersion breakers and something I've had to fight to keep playing around. It can be so frustrating to be invested in what your doing even while things are never truly certain.

 

[Trueno33]

I am not involved in PP, but this smells funny

 

[Smurfprime]

Actually, you bring up quite an argument.

The merits increase happened just a little after the Empire claimed they would start undermining Archon!

Imperial bias approved. Maybe half life 3 as well.

Yes, it hurts them more, but you can't expect them to know it, otherwise they wouldn't be in such bad position that the slightest undermine gets them to turmoil. This pretty much shows: What the Empire asks, it gets.

By the way. Go to those smuggling hot spots and see for yourself whether it's imperial supporters or delaine supporters who do the smuggling. Just a suggestion, for reality's sake.

Yep, you caught us. We totally wanted to pay out of our own pockets to purchase and haul countless tons of "I <3 Aisling" bumper stickers to fortify systems that can be ninja-undermined from 0% to 100% in the last 10 minutes before downtime. The turmoil party was so much fun the first time we decided to do it two weeks in a row to get the full "catastrophic turmoil death-spiral" experience and the complete, "You cannot do anything at all to fix it" bonus package.

If these last couple of weeks are an example of Aisling getting "special treatment" by the devs, they can keep it next time.

 

[Apos]

Yep, you caught us. We totally wanted to pay out of our own pockets to purchase and haul countless tons of "I <3 Aisling" bumper stickers to fortify systems that can be ninja-undermined from 0% to 100% in the last 10 minutes before downtime. It was so much fun the first time we decided to do it two weeks in a row to get the full "catastrophic turmoil spiral" experience and the complete, "You cannot do anything at all to fix it" bonus package.

Who cares about Aisling? What Arissa says is law. Isn't it quite obvious from the bonuses she was given? It's not like Aisling is the one who organised Davy Jones anyway, is it?

Plus, it's already been told, this is the 11th cycle. If you screwed up for 10 consecutive cycles, deal with the consequences and stop being a cry-baby about it. Savor the turmoil and then start anew all the wiser.

 

[GluttonyFang]

It is a fact that any software of this scope will have bugs and balance issues. Of that, I am 100% confident. This is not the first time they had to tweak things and it will not be the last. When problems crop up, bugs will need to be fixed and formulas adjusted to correct the problems, which is a good thing for the game as a whole.

You seem to ignore the point that I've been emphasizing over and over is that if it is an actual fix according to some sort of mechanic that was already set in stone, FD would have no problem showing us what they are instead of coming out at some opportune time to tell us "oh this was intended all along."

Anyone would be suspicious of that considering the way they set their priorities. No one wants a buggy game, but exploiting the idea of bug fixing to express favoritism is something no one wants.

What I really find interesting is that you are apparently so overwhelmed with schadenfreude that you feel the need to concoct and promote a pro-empire conspiracy theory to rationalize your asinine arguments and cover for your own feelings of inadequacy.

Inadequacy? I am one of the top administrators of Code and one of the top coordinators of Archon Delaine. I actively commit myself to diplomacy with all factions other than Li Yong-Rei and constantly communicate with said factions on a daily basis, yes that include Empire player groups. They all know I'm not set on some sort of unreasonable Empire-hate campaign. Who are you to tell me I'm inadequate to comment on the subject?

If it was just me calling this fix into question, then perhaps I would be taken less seriously. But as you can see, the Alliance, Federation, and Archon Delaine are questioning this fix. So anything that goes against the Empire is now just a conspiracy and an "asinine argument"?

Just because the timing of that fix benefits your enemy(s) in the immediate situation; or more accurately--corrects a situation that never should have happened in the first place-- does not make it unjust nor is it evidence of Dev conclusion with any single faction or group of factions.

The timing is suspicious, as many have pointed out here and argued over. No one's claiming anything is set in stone or "hard fact."

I could just as easily point to the timing of the gigantic merit increase for undermining and say the Devs were deliberately trying to screw Aisling's faction by painting a giant target on her back as soon as she got to the top rank. Obviously that merit increase benefits your merry band of slave-trading a$s-pirates more than Aisling's peaceful palladium traders right? Using your logic, that is definitely a Dev conspiracy.

This actually made me laugh... did you know that the undermining merit increase led to a exponential increase in Archon Delaine's opposition, making it much easier to undermine all of our systems?. Of course you don't, or rather you ignore it because that makes your argument looks good.

Don't embarrass yourself. Also, masked filter words are not allowed, I suggest you fix it before the Mod comes for you.

Unfortunately for you, when you are in the back of the pack the view is always going to be the same. On the bright side, Torval is in #9 now. (Further evidence of a pro-empire agenda, right?) maybe your guys can man-up and go mug the little old grandma to get out of last place, that should be a real ego boost.

Torval haven't collapsed, yet. Plus if you look at the faction modules you'd know it's the least favored faction in Empire by FD.

Why don't you try to coordinate or be a part of a 4v1 with your forces being a small independent power and see how long you'd last? If you want to trash talk, use another forum, this is a place for civil debate. At this point you're presenting yourself quite ludicrously and is in imperative need of some self control.

Edit:

We don't want Torval off the map because of the profitable trade routes between Torval and us. You can probably guess how many Imperial Cmdrs milk those profitable trade routes behind the back of some glorious campaign against slavery.

 

[shrinkshooter]

The turmoil party was so much fun the first time we decided to do it two weeks in a row to get the full "catastrophic turmoil death-spiral" experience and the complete, "You cannot do anything at all to fix it" bonus package.

You can definitely do something to fix it. Compared to the math and mechanics understanding required to figure out whether Aisling should have been in turmoil, figuring out exactly what's need to get out if it is incredibly easy and simple to do. But if you're convinced you're doomed, I'm okay with that too.

 

[yul7896]

Funny how AD finally faces some opposition and it could, of course, only be from 'last 10min ninja undermining all in private group and solo'.

 

[Szyslak22]

I find it hard to believe that Frontier didn't think this was important enough to clarify and explain today. Very disappointing that there was no further communication about how this situation should have worked.

Or maybe they have the abacus out trying to figure out the true formulas and order of operations to verify the different methods posited here?