Powerplay: Ideas from the devs - Feedback wanted! #3

Quick thought on merit decay and building on my ideas on merit, reputation and favors.

Keep the current merit mechanics to reward participation.

However, allow ranks gained to be sustained longer as a 'reputation' marker. The longer a rank has been maintained, the longer it will be sustained due to inactivity. Rank then decays to the next lower rank and so forth.

On Favors, players can trade current merit gained into earning favor(s). So if a CMDR actively playing PP needs to stop for a period of time, they can bank in favors for the effort achieved.

With ranks being sustained and current merit banked into favors, the CMDR has a basis to start with when returning from real life.
 
Quick thought on merit decay and building on my ideas on merit, reputation and favors.

Keep the current merit mechanics to reward participation.

However, allow ranks gained to be sustained longer as a 'reputation' marker. The longer a rank has been maintained, the longer it will be sustained due to inactivity. Rank then decays to the next lower rank and so forth.

On Favors, players can trade current merit gained into earning favor(s). So if a CMDR actively playing PP needs to stop for a period of time, they can bank in favors for the effort achieved.

With ranks being sustained and current merit banked into favors, the CMDR has a basis to start with when returning from real life.

God no.

If anything let the time PLEDGED to a faction affect your rank "timer".
 
Once pledged to a power they felt “locked in” [...] because of the extra dangers they faced.

As a noob I have joined a player group, and pledged to a power.
This has made journeys through other power's space scary and something I have to prepare for.
I love the extra layer this adds.

However - I do wish there were more in-game rewards for being pledged.
The player group is supplying a set of rewards:
Trade Routes, insider information, cash and assistance

Dev's should not modify Power Play to minimise the risk after pledging - it should be mdified to maximise the reward.
 
DEVS: Let the time pledged affect our standing.

Either in decay, merits earned or how long we keep our current rank.

Example: Each month pledged adds +1 week to rank status.

So a member pledged for 2 months would kerp his rank 3 weeks before dropping 1 rank.
 
Favour
Part of Powerplay is about rewarding effort, which is why the merit system works as it does. However, there has been lots of feedback from Commanders who perhaps don’t have much time to devote to the game, let alone Powerplay; they make a very reasonable argument that potential gameplay is locked from them based on arbitrary time limits rather than skill or something equally nice.

Whilst I think it’s fair to suggest that time paid in can be considered effort of a sort, it got me thinking: perhaps there might be a reasonable compromise. The result: “Favour”.

The idea behind this suggestion is that each time a Commander earns a merit, they also earn a favour. However, favour does not decay – it’s a permanent resource (well, permanent as long as the power remains active, of course).

At any time during a cycle, a Commander could “spend” favour to trigger a an individual rating’s benefits until the next cycle. The cost of triggering a rating’s benefits would likely be significantly more than the merit total required to activate them, keeping merits as the “supercharged” currency of Powerplay.

Such a system would mean however, that Commanders would not necessarily have to put large amounts of constant effort in to taste the benefits a power might offer, instead building up their rewards over time in a piecemeal fashion and choosing when to execute them.

With such a system, I believe we could also consider reverting the way merits rewards are calculated back to the more competitive allocation method we started with, where rating requirements are based on success versus one’s peers as opposed to an arbitrary threshold. I know that this proved less than popular in the first instance, but I’d be interested if folk might reconsider its value if coupled with a favour system for the less competitive power supporters. Don’t worry if you strongly disagree, just say so!
I can see your reasoning, but I think that just adds more complexity to the already quite convoluted PP mechanisms. A better and far simpler solution to allow players without a tremendous amount of time to put into Powerplay to reap the rewards of higher PP ranks would be to slow down or delay merit decay. For instance, let the merits decay not after one week, but after three or four.

EDIT: Ah, I see this actually has already been brought up:
The clear consensus is that a return to the old system of merit rating, even with the addition of favours, would not be wanted. So, going further down this line, I want to pose another question for you to consider: merit decay is present specifically to reward Commanders who put in more effort over time than their peers. This is true, even in the current implementation, even though you don't actually compete.

So my question is: would you prefer to see the merit system mutate into something like the favour system, rather than have both active at the same time (I think something along those lines has cropped up a couple of times)? Before you respond, have a think about what would be gained versus what would be lost: the system would be simpler, but less dynamic. In essence, it would likely be a little more like a XP bar/resource.
 
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I can see your reasoning, but I think that just adds more complexity to the already quite convoluted PP mechanisms. A better and far simpler solution to allow players without a tremendous amount of time to put into Powerplay to reap the rewards of higher PP ranks would be to slow down or delay merit decay. For instance, let the merits decay not after one week, but after three or four.

Or let time pledged to a faction affect decay.

Let LOYALTY be rewarded so that PP is not a short term weekly grind but a long term commitment to a cause, and not to the grind.

Let's say we get a reduction in decay per rank AND week pledged.

Each Rank: -5%
Each Week: -0.5%

So a rank 5 would reduce his decay to 25% (100% -25% instead of 50%)

And in addition to that he has been a member for 2 months so that's an additional -4% for a total of 21%

In order to not get a TOO excessive decay bonus we limit week pledged bonus to be no higher than the rank bonus.

So a rank 4 with a 20% reduction in decay and 50 weeks pledged would get no more than 20% instead of his additional 25%
 
Yes, if we do use some sort of flag or toggle, we'll try to ensure that it's dressed up to have some contextual sense. And I'll be considering the various alternatives suggested in this thread. No promises, of course, but we have plenty to consider already, so that's good.

I may be late to the party, so if this has been suggested already, count this as my +1 to that:

How about using the power decals as the toggle? The powerplay trailer showed us a Patreus decal, and it was very disappointing to find out you don't get a decal for your chosen power. If we all got the corresponding decal (and of course lost it when we defect or leave the power), the presence of the decal on the hull would identify any ship as operating under that power's flag! :)

Hello Commanders!

Just another update for you folk.

The clear consensus is that a return to the old system of merit rating, even with the addition of favours, would not be wanted. So, going further down this line, I want to pose another question for you to consider: merit decay is present specifically to reward Commanders who put in more effort over time than their peers. This is true, even in the current implementation, even though you don't actually compete.

So my question is: would you prefer to see the merit system mutate into something like the favour system, rather than have both active at the same time (I think something along those lines has cropped up a couple of times)? Before you respond, have a think about what would be gained versus what would be lost: the system would be simpler, but less dynamic. In essence, it would likely be a little more like a XP bar/resource.

I would in fact welcome such a system. It would facilitate both sides, basically. If you do enough every week, you can afford to always have a particular rank active; if you do less, you enable it only some of the time, i.e. when you can make the most of it, for example in order to purchase power equipment, or cash in a large amount of exploration data with the rank bonus. In fact, this would finally make stuff like the exploration bonus viable. An explorer could first earn enough merits for rank 5, then go on their huge expedition, upon return spend these merits to get rank 5 for a week, and sell their data with the bonus. :)

Now, whilst I'm reflective mode :)

Clearly, everyone wants missions. Understood. So do we! It's a matter of timing.

Sandro, it would really help if we got at least a balancing pass over the 1.3 mission overhaul without going into deep changes, just a few examples what should be addressed, imho, from the top of my head. Basically, just stuff to tweak the numbers; read these all as "imho" please. :)

- Illegal missions (piracy, smuggling, assassinations vs clean targets) should spawn primarily from illegal factions (pirate gangs, mafia etc.), and only rarely from legal corporations or non-extremist political parties.

- Delivery missions, i.e. the type "We have 10 tons of vegetables here that need to reach Hutton Orbital within the next 5 hours.", do not really scale up for larger cargo amounts. I can just as well go around in an FDL, of all ships, with some 20 tons cargo space, and be no more effective than a Python with 200, the missions rarely spawn with amounts of cargo large enough to warrant the bigger cargo bay (and the corresponding payment). Also, generally the payment for these missions seems rather low, while smuggling pays decently, these legal missions could really get a boost by just letting them spawn into higher cargo numbers with higher payments. Like, you could smuggle 10 tons of illegal drugs for a payment of 200k, or you deliver 100 tons of legal medicines for a similar sum. At the moment it is more like smuggle 10 tons illlegal goods for 200k, or 10 tons of legal goods for 10k. :(

- Combat missions should spawn only within a system that the faction operates in. If the HIP 12345 Candy Corporation has a presence in HIP 12345 and HIP 67890, and they send you to fend off some pirates, the mission shouldn't send you to HIP 11111 where the company has no business whatsoever, but either of the two systems where it is actually present as a minor faction. This would have the effect that more often than not a combat mission takes place in the same system, so you can cash in any extra bounties from the targets right where you hand in the mission in the end; at the moment, it seems these combat missions can send you everywhere except the current system.

- Assassination missions also work great as bounty hunting missions, when they happen to spawn with the right parameters, which is very rare, sadly. If these would just spawn much more regularly with wanted criminals as their targets, and would tell you what faction they are from, that would be a huge boon to bounty hunting, not specifically with regards to the money you can earn (RES still are king probably), but the way the profession can operate, i.e. like an assassin, but on the side of the law.

- Similarly to smuggling missions, illegal assassinations, where the target is not a known wanted criminal, should primarily be issued by criminal factions and possibly extremist political factions, whereas regular corporations and moderate parties would usually give you legal assassinations, i.e. an actual bounty hunt, against a wanted gangster.
 
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I guess my only question is:
What is the intention of powerplay?

the role playing player groups are dropping out

the solo roleplayers are having a hard time dealing with the credit exploiters messing up expansion

Those of us who took pride in their home systems, like myself, got shrekt when the powers steamrolled the BGS

Mercenaries find the modules useless

People looking for immersion find the massive war and 2d characters unappealing

If you needed a 2d character to justify why you played elite then that's awful. Who was PP made for? Certainly not your backers, as the amount of users here on the forums from those days has gone down .

Good questions. I am a solo player and a fan of RPGs, it would be nice to know where the effort is going and their plans. Good that people are enjoying it and want more of the same but what about the others? If we had a clearer understanding of the aims and impacts of PP from a solo-players perspective then we may be more willing to support. I would like to know roughly FDs future roadmap, so far (in my opinion) we have had Wings - Multi-Player, Powerplay - not sure hence the good questions, CQC upcoming, which I presume is also Multi-player. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with work being done on multi-player as no doubt there are many fans but I have not seen any major updates directed at solo players as yet. I know many will disagree but for me PP seems like another method of grinding but with less rewards than say trade grinding. If the factions were more dynamic and personal to the solo player with more variation in missions and better rewards then maybe it could work.
 
With the fear of boring people (or annoying them) I'm going to risk saying what I've said before...

Most players care primarily about their own progression, and their own gaming experience (fun) before caring about which coloured Power's bubble obscure systems happen to belong to. With this in mind, IMHO that means the entire back bone of Powerplay is flawed. ie: Most people will work primarily towards their own agenda before their Power's. This is why we seen goals not just exceeded but rediculously exceed by ten or more fold. Worse still when faced with gameplay offering little more than rebadged simple grind-mini-game mechanics, it's not surprised players lose interest.


With this in mind, IMHO:-
  • The entire premise of players deciding/voting for their Power's moves/goals is flawed. Powers should decide their own goals/agendas, and then this results in the appropriate missions/tasks in systems for player to participate in, and ultimately help their Power succeed/fail in that goal.
  • Missions/tasks should be offered by Powers via the bulletin board, or something very similar. As said these should be missions/tasks applicable to what the Power is trying to achieve in that system/region.
  • As many others have suggested, why not utilise something closer/more integrated to local factions. ie: If a Power controls a system, it is there as a Faction to "work" for. If a system is exploited by a Power, it is there as a Faction to "work" for. eg: Doing tasks/missions with a goal to taking over that system.
  • As you help your Power by completing tasks/missions successfully you rank up. Maybe by ranking up you get paid slightly more for future tasks/missions? Or some other mechanic to reward loyalty?
  • Keep all the existing mechanics whereby systems economics/policies are affected by the Power controlling/exploiting them. This works nicely!
  • Most importantly... Improve the missions/tasks to offer deeper and more varied gameplay. Surely we want Powers to ask you to escort VIPs, or protect a convoy for X minutes while under attack, go to an abandoned station/platform and collect special containers from inside it, or get your Wing to help escort convoys flying between two nav becons, or to go and attack another Powers convoys (PvP will ensue!). etc... ie: Surely we can introduce far far more interesting stuff to do that take X to Y or go to X and blow up Y? There's no need to turn Powerplay into an occupation, it can surely just add more variety/depth?


In short, Powerplay (unfortunately) needs a huge rework IMHO. It needs to be altered from an unnecessarily overly complex and cumbersome bolt on to ED, to a far simpler more natural addition to ED. Does Frontier agree with this? Or do they instead want to persevere trying to "nudge" the existing Powerplay along making it somehow finally work. Because IMHO it never will work (well) while it continues to rely on players taking part in cumbersome unfriendly (unwanted) mechanics (akin to a strict time consuming occupation), rather than simply allowing them to enjoy an increasingly fun and deeper game, and participating in Powerplay while they do it.

Time will tell...
 
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Here's the reasons I'm personally not interested in powerplay.

Merit decay is demotivating. I personally think you should just remove it and change the rewards to ranks to be prestige based (like the Faction ranks) or something that you don't need to grind to upkeep. Higher ranks getting access to more interesting missions is another idea.

Loosing any merit tokens you haven't turned in each week is demotivating. Really don't understand this one, just let players keep them.

The tasks the powers ask us to undertake are limited (there's only a couple of things to do really) and ultimately more of the same we've been doing for months pre powerplay. Need powerplay specific missions that are interesting.

There's no in game method for players to organize well to support their power thus people are playing selfishly.

The affect on the game world of a power taking over a system is minimal, if very little changes in a system when a power takes over then I'm not really motivated to expand the power. A taken over system should evolve over time to reflect the power taking over, maybe include things like PP specific CGs that build power specific stations/ships etc...
 
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  • As many others have suggested, why not utilise something closer/more integrated to local factions. ie: If a Power controls a system, it is there as a Faction to "work" for. If a system is exploited by a Power, it is there as a Faction to "work" for. eg: Doing tasks/missions with a goal to taking over that system.
  • As you help your Power by completing tasks/missions successfully you rank up. Maybe by ranking up you get paid slightly more for future tasks/missions? Or some other mechanic to reward loyalty?

  • .
To take an example by using Li Yong-Rui:
.
1.His company takes over MAJORITY SHARES of companies in select systems until he has majority power in the entire system.
2.He now OWNS minor factions through shell companies and "control" a system
3.ANY mission involving TRADE to another system not owned by Li Yong-Rui is now a preparation or takeover mission for Li Yong-Rui since he OWNS the minor faction giving the mission inside the controlled system
.
We now get a power that works through intermediaries and shell companies to stage takeovers of a system by using the very factions WITHIN the system he controls.
.
So we can now pick any trade related bulletin board mission and do the EXACT same thing except we skip the dog-food-timer-dispenser and actually PLAY the game to earn merits and participate.
.
Such a system would be:
1.Immersive
2.Make Sense
3.Fitting with the powerplay mindset of said faction
 
What needs to be addressed immediately is the fact systems can be over fortified by grinders. A fortification cap has to be put in place so that you can not fortifie over 100 percent or you do not get any merits after the trigger has been reached.
 
What needs to be addressed immediately is the fact systems can be over fortified by grinders. A fortification cap has to be put in place so that you can not fortifie over 100 percent or you do not get any merits after the trigger has been reached.

But that's just sweeping the entire problem under the carpet.

All that would happen is the players would do system X, hit a limit, and move to system Y and so on. They are simply going to the nearest most convenient system to do what they want. Most do not really care about the entire back bone board game Powerplay current want (needs) them to care about.

The whole thing needs reworking - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169489&p=2601944&viewfull=1#post2601944
 
Freedom Fighters:

To lock in a player to one system at a time by making it mission based. Players accept a mission from a minor power that has a global timer (say a weeks cycle) to help defend/undermine a system from exploitation from a major power. To give incentives for the players to do so, use the CG mechanics of tiered payouts for contribution. Once the cycle is over, a player can earn his rewards and move on, or stick around and accept another mission for the next cycle (if needed). To make the game play diverse once the player has pledged to the minor power for the cycle add specific missions for the player to do as well as the combat stuff to earn both minor faction reputation and cash/contribution to the weekly mission CG.

e.g

Smuggle dropped PP items to contacts in other systems to help undermine those systems (cash reward/minor faction merit boost)
Smuggle dropped PP items to opposing major factions HQs to spread opposing propaganda (possibility of turmoil increase/cash reward/minor faction merit boost)
Market crash. Smuggle trade items to contacts to undercut the market. Different form of undermining. (cash reward/minor faction merit boost)
Obtain shipping data. Explore Major faction controlled systems and scan planets/ships to get an updated system picture (cash reward/Minor faction merit boost)

Those are just a few ideas off the top of my head that could make a Freedom Fighter (or Merc) want to actively defend a system from a major power.
 
But that's just sweeping the entire problem under the carpet.

All that would happen is the players would do system X, hit a limit, and move to system Y and so on. They are simply going to the nearest most convenient system to do what they want. Most do not really care about the entire back bone board game Powerplay current want (needs) them to care about.

The whole thing needs reworking - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169489&p=2601944&viewfull=1#post2601944

I half agree with you. Setting a hard limit would not 'solve' the 'problem'. One has to ask if that is a real problem in the first place: after all, just because something is over-fortified for the benefit of a few people, doesn't mean it is wrong. It is just inefficient. Prepping really bad systems is much more annoying, but again, is it right to absolutely forbid that? I think not. Tools should be in place to help steer folks away from it, encourage them elsewhere, but hard stop them, no.

As for saying most people this, most people that... that is conjecture. It may or may not be true. What I can say is, from my experience in the group I play with, we have had a few instances of obvious merit grinding, possible fifth columning, and two clear instances of concerted efforts at expanding for reasons other than strictly 'best for the group', although not badly damaging. What remains, thereafter, are probably about 200 or so Cmdrs who are all following the same rough plan, and making it happen. There may be many others who follow but don't post.

Sure, personal interest comes into it, to varying degrees for Cmdrs. That is surely the same in any political group in life. You are hardly likely to join up as an activist for a political party if it doesn't represent your own interests (and not just principles) to at least some degree.
 
Let's say that favour, flag and freedom fighter would definitely remove three of the many reasons I don't PP for.
Just one doubt I have: as long as now there are at least 30 pages filled up with comments for the DEVs to read; wouldn't it be easier and more immediate for them to know what do we think about their ideas using the poll option?
 
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Rewarding for the top 5% etc would be very damaging unless there is a change to how merits are earned. It would just promote over fortification. Why would you not deliver fortifications to the nearest control system to your HQ rather than long journeys to the edge of your space? In role play terms surely the faction high ups would take more notice of someone taking long flights to resupply a distant war zone than one jump up the road. Maybe increase the number of merits to hit a rank but give out more for harder tasks.
 
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I half agree with you. Setting a hard limit would not 'solve' the 'problem'. One has to ask if that is a real problem in the first place: after all, just because something is over-fortified for the benefit of a few people, doesn't mean it is wrong. It is just inefficient. Prepping really bad systems is much more annoying, but again, is it right to absolutely forbid that? I think not. Tools should be in place to help steer folks away from it, encourage them elsewhere, but hard stop them, no.

As for saying most people this, most people that... that is conjecture. It may or may not be true. What I can say is, from my experience in the group I play with, we have had a few instances of obvious merit grinding, possible fifth columning, and two clear instances of concerted efforts at expanding for reasons other than strictly 'best for the group', although not badly damaging. What remains, thereafter, are probably about 200 or so Cmdrs who are all following the same rough plan, and making it happen. There may be many others who follow but don't post.

Sure, personal interest comes into it, to varying degrees for Cmdrs. That is surely the same in any political group in life. You are hardly likely to join up as an activist for a political party if it doesn't represent your own interests (and not just principles) to at least some degree.

As far as personal interest in the politics, it's currently pointless as all the Powers play exactly the same way. None of the Powers themselves represent their own interests properly. That's where you get comments about "2d characters", because mechanically the biggest difference is what coloured blob on the Galmap belongs to your doods.

It's fair for Powerplay the Board Game, but very jarring for Elite The Spaceship Game. You can play one if you ignore the other, but as soon as you attempt to mesh the two into a single experience it's disconcerting at best (Powers not acting anything like their fluff personas), and broken at worst (pacifists and businessmen authorizing galaxywide killsquads in contravention of existing political landscape and laws).
 
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