I see.That actually makes sense. How ever we put it there will be people exploiting game mechanics to theire advantage.
Powerplay Powerplay Solo/Private Exploit Problem
- Thread starter EndangeredProdigy
- Start date
I see.That actually makes sense. How ever we put it there will be people exploiting game mechanics to theire advantage.
Well, things to look at first are folks sitting on merits until last minute to prevent counter work.
The solution to this is easy, make unclaimed merits wipe on logout.
Have the map update PP activities, say a 3 (6?) hour heat map cycle. So folks know the active PP areas for attacking / defending.
Remove module tourism and give people a reason to stick with a power, not just hop about for "special items".
Make players worth the same merits as NPCs (but on a 30 minute cool down once claimed to reduce cheating).
All of this is off the top of my head, while semi drunk - I'm sure regular PP players can do better.
And none of it goes near the mode system, the block feature or requires out of game network trickery.
This is one of the rare moments I really agree! Good and important points you make there. The crux is, "give people a reason to stick with a power". This could be as simpel as giving people actual ranks they can keep as long as they stay with the power granting similar bonuses as we already have (bounty bonus, trading benefits, ...) or giving bonus to all pledges of a power for succesful expansions and full fortifications as incentive to keep the power active and moving.
Well, an idea I've had bouncing about my head for a bit is;
Remove the special modules completely.
Replace them with a special "buff" that does what that module did - that only applies while you're connected to that power.
And have it build up to full strength over the 4 weeks.
So to try and explain it, I'll use Prismatic shields.
So I sign up to Blue, fine and dandy.
First full week of working for Blue, my shields get a 25% "Prismatic" boost for my loyalty
Second full week, 50% boost, third 75%, fourth week onward 100% "prismatic" boost.
Still toying with the idea that to maintain the boost you need a minimum participation with collecting merits etc...
And if you fall short of your participation you get knocked back a week. To encourage people doing stuff.
Also, if people defect (I'd keep that mechanic, I like that), you get knocked back 2 weeks.
Hope this made sense.
I don't like the idea. A module is a module, and to be honest I think that the solution to module shoppers (if we can call that a problem at all) is to give people other ways to obtain Power modules, for a much greater price and maybe under particular situations. But FDev has always been adamant about that.
It isn't that easy to camp out at nav beacons and find expansion target ships (anymore?) as they don't often spawn. And some powers don't have military strike zone options and have to do all the undermining by searching targets in sc and using fsd-interdiction which takes a lot of time.
I am not sure if this will be particularly well received idea or if its been suggested before, however I feel it would stop alot of issues I have read on this thread.
Make PowerPlay only available via OPEN. Any Fortifications, Aid or Propaganda currently in your ships hold will be removed on changing game modes. And PowerPlay Contacts only accessible via OPEN.
Allowing players to hide in Private or Solo for Undermining & Fortifications diminishes they spirit of what PowerPlay fundamentally is, and thus breaks the system.
BGS however can be completed in all 3 game modes.
I adamantly feel this is the only option to get PowerPlay on an equal footing. From then we can start discussing how best to improve the system overall. But until PowerPlay is limited to OPEN only, it is at its very core ... A broken system.
Would love to hear thoughts.
Make PowerPlay only available via OPEN. Any Fortifications, Aid or Propaganda currently in your ships hold will be removed on changing game modes. And PowerPlay Contacts only accessible via OPEN.
Allowing players to hide in Private or Solo for Undermining & Fortifications diminishes they spirit of what PowerPlay fundamentally is, and thus breaks the system.
BGS however can be completed in all 3 game modes.
I adamantly feel this is the only option to get PowerPlay on an equal footing. From then we can start discussing how best to improve the system overall. But until PowerPlay is limited to OPEN only, it is at its very core ... A broken system.
Would love to hear thoughts.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed it won't likely be well received - the BGS, PowerPlay, CGs, Factions, etc. have been implemented for all players, not just those who prefer direct PvP (an entirely optional play-style in this game as has been obvious from the published design information for over five years now).
If PowerPlay required players to be available for direct PvP then Frontier would have implemented it, over two and a half years ago, in Open only. They didn't, so it doesn't - no matter how much a subset of the player-base might like it to.
But isn't the Feature of PowerPlay at its core it to engage with other PC's from within your faction and PCs of other factions. Surely by allowing it in PRIVATE & SOLO is diminishing the core of PowerPlay. Regardless on how it was initially introduced many years ago, surely the design of the feature is diminished to to allowing it across all game modes.
However my idea is not to effect CGs, BGS and other elements of the game, all those quite rightly should be available on all game modes. However, I am talking PowerPlay only. As I feel it is the only system that can be completed in OPEN to allow an element of Fair play and a level playing field across all players across the board. I have always understood that PowerPlay is a PvP minded feature due to the inherent design of the feature.
Regardless on how it was initially implemented 2 1/2 years ago, Looking at the system/feature now leaves some glaring holes and allows for Exploitation in Solo & Private (The whole debate of this thread is based upon). Change is never popular, but I honestly, vehemently & passionately think that having PowerPlay only available in OPEN will solve a myriad of issues with the feature.
I mean what is the point in fortifying a system in OPEN, only to have your ships destroyed by an enemy faction, when said faction is currently ready in a Private group to drop Forts/Aid/Prop 30mins before tick. Or even vice versa. There is little consistency in the Feature which will only work if everyone is on a level field with regards to PowerPlay.
Thanklks for taking the time to reply though. I don't use forums that much and i'm always grateful someone takes the time to reply.
Regards, Jack Wilmslow
It's also across all platforms.
XB1 and PS4 players cannot see or interact with PC & Mac players.
And the game is heavily instanced. It will naturally only put around 15 - 20 max in the same instance, to get higher you have to use tweaks and tricks.
So even if it was open only, you're still limited to how many folks you can see / interact with.
And people can put you on block if they don't want to interact with you.
The mode system, is just a drop in the ocean of how the game decides who can play with who.
Frontier disagrees.
Power Play is a consensual PvP system. Forcing it into Open mode takes that away.
Hence why it was designed to be used in all modes, so people who do not want consensual PvP can still play Power Play.
And as it is a PvE Token pushing exercise, with PvP generating no merits - it makes no difference where people play it.
My rough edit of the video
Everyone is on a level playing field, we can all use Open, Private, Solo to push those PvE tokens about.
You cannot get more "level" than a field that lets everyone do the same thing.
See you've identified an issue in your post and completely ignored it - People sitting on things until right before tick over.
This has nothing to do with the mode system and everything to do with how the PP system doesn't inform you that someone is working against you until it's too late to counter it.
There's info on the block function with dev input here :
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ners-advice-on-dealing-with-griefing-(part-2)
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
PowerPlay permits players to engage with all other players, regardless of game mode or platform, in indirect PvP with the option of direct PvP for those on the same platform, in Open, playing at the same time, with sufficiently good P2P connections to instance together.
Diminished for those who want to force all other participants to engage in PowerPlay the way they want them to? Indeed. However that's not a reason in and of itself to remove PowerPlay, as a game feature, from those players who choose not to play in Open.
Again, *if* PowerPlay had been intended by Frontier to require PvP then it would have been implemented in Open only. However, just like the BGS, CGs, Factions, etc., it was implemented for all players, in all game modes.
That some assume that PowerPlay is *only* for direct PvP is their assumption. Frontier seem to view it as a game feature that offers opportunities for consensual PvP (but don't force players to engage in direct PvP to participate in PowerPlay).
Changing the game from one that has no features that require the player to engage in direct PvP to a game that does is a fundamental change.
The most that Frontier has ever even mused about regarding PowerPlay and the modes was a brief period when Sandro mentioned that he was in favour of an Open play bonus to PowerPlay (to the Power only, not the player) - that was in March'16. When asked, in December'16, whether it was going to happen he said no and that there were no plans to do so.
Everyone is on a level playing field with respect to PowerPlay - there are no options available to only a subset of players. That some choose to engage in PowerPlay in Open only is, of course their choice - they cannot, however, force others to play the same way.
The storing merits in preparation for a snipe is certainly an issue - however it could doubtless be dealt with without restricting PowerPlay to a subset of players (i.e. those who prefer direct PvP and play in Open).
NP.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Same old "game that does not contain features that require any player to engage in direct PvP"....
Same old complaint.
If this game required PvP I'd do the same with it I've done with every game I've ever installed then discovered it required PvP.
Uninstall.
PowerPlay permits players to engage with all other players, regardless of game mode or platform, in indirect PvP with the option of direct PvP for those on the same platform, in Open, playing at the same time, with sufficiently good P2P connections to instance together.
Diminished for those who want to force all other participants to engage in PowerPlay the way they want them to? Indeed. However that's not a reason in and of itself to remove PowerPlay, as a game feature, from those players who choose not to play in Open.
Again, *if* PowerPlay had been intended by Frontier to require PvP then it would have been implemented in Open only. However, just like the BGS, CGs, Factions, etc., it was implemented for all players, in all game modes.
That some assume that PowerPlay is *only* for direct PvP is their assumption. Frontier seem to view it as a game feature that offers opportunities for consensual PvP (but don't force players to engage in direct PvP to participate in PowerPlay).
Changing the game from one that has no features that require the player to engage in direct PvP to a game that does is a fundamental change.
The most that Frontier has ever even mused about regarding PowerPlay and the modes was a brief period when Sandro mentioned that he was in favour of an Open play bonus to PowerPlay (to the Power only, not the player) - that was in March'16. When asked, in December'16, whether it was going to happen he said no and that there were no plans to do so.
Everyone is on a level playing field with respect to PowerPlay - there are no options available to only a subset of players. That some choose to engage in PowerPlay in Open only is, of course their choice - they cannot, however, force others to play the same way.
The storing merits in preparation for a snipe is certainly an issue - however it could doubtless be dealt with without restricting PowerPlay to a subset of players (i.e. those who prefer direct PvP and play in Open).
NP.
PowerPlay does not force people to do PvP for those who participate in open at all, so it is wrong to view it as a "direct PvP" activity in its current form. It is, however, a competitive team activity, in that teams of people (including both random players and organised communities) compete to have their Power influence certain regions of space. In its current form that it what PowerPlay is. Just because it was implemented for all modes to have an equal effect on the PowerPlay, that does not necessarily mean the rewards for using different modes should be equal. If all modes were equal, there would be just one instead of the three we have and the mode players use is always their choice. The problem is that currently some players are using the benefits of solo/private group to avoid the risk of open for the same reward.
So PowerPlay is a competitive team game, but without being able to use PvP to block enemy actions, and Sandro has said PowerPlay is meant to offer consenual PvP. That's a bit like a goal keeper not actually being allowed to stand in a goal to block the ball, and hoping the rest of team can out-score the opponent elsewhere. The goalkeeper unltimately becomes redundant, even tho is promoted as being a star of the team and that doesn't make any sense. In its current state if everyone played only in solo/private group to maximise rewards and minimise risks, there would be no consenual PvP at all. Taken together with Sandro's description of PowerPlay, that says to me that something is fundamentally wrong. Instancing/cross platform will always be an issue, and FDev can only do so much there. Encouraging PowerPlay in open is something they can do by balancing risk/reward.
It follows then, that there should be some incentive to play in open. Whilst I agree that all modes should have equal access to the game content, they should not have an equal effect on the game. People can then choose to participate in open for a PowerPlay bonus at inceased risk of PvP, or in solo/private group if they are more comfortable with the risk/reward of these modes. Everybody is catered for. Just because a feature was introduced how it was, it should still be reviewed and altered as new features are added to the game and issues (such as this) become apparent. The bonus itself could be something like merits having a bonus effect on fortification/undermining etc, and is a separate topic for discussion. Changing this aspect of the game and encouraging people to use open to benefit their Power does not force people to do PvP. People, including myself, do PowerPlay activities in open without PvP. The risk of PvP is certainly increased but is not a requirement, nor would it become one. The argument that a bonus to PowerPlay effects in open would force people to do PvP is, therefore, irrelevant.
If snipes are an issue, this suggested change will not alter snipes. Any sensible sniper will run at the first sign of an enemy if they do not want to risk losing merits. This suggestion is aimed at addressing the imbalance where organised PowerPlay communities can conduct some or all of their activities in solo/private group and gain an advantage to the detriment of PowerPlay as a whole. If some game mode gives an advantage over another as it currently does, it is clearly not a level playing field. So remove that advantage and balance risk/rewards to make it as level as possible whilst offering players a choice. Why limit this to PowerPlay activities? Why indeed.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That Frontier chose to not to reduce the effects of players in Solo / Private Groups, in comparison to players in Open, might be quite telling - especially given Frontier's repeated statements regarding their position that all game modes are equal and valid choices.
They know that some players disagree with their decisions.
One Dev has acknowledged that Frontier are well aware that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP.
Sandro mused about an Open play bonus for PowerPlay (for the Power, not the player, and only for PowerPlay, not for anything else) in March'16 - then confirmed in December'16 that nothing was planned in that regard.
We'll see what, if anything, Frontier chooses to do in relation to PowerPlay - in due time.
I really don't wonder why that is the case.
If Frontier does not create content for PvP gameplay this is really no surprise.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
They chose to create a game that does not require players to engage in PvP.