News Powerplay trigger

[palazo]

Zac, I wonder if any of you happened to read some Engineer Discussion, there are too many post players in trouble.

Many people waiting for an answer or at least sign that they are heard.

I would if frontier was aware of the problems of the current gameplay.

And if you can help to get a response to our complaints.

Please if you can or have one second read this post:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258294

 

[TychoDirge]

Thanks for your patience.

...

Preparation not added - This has been added to the live game this cycle

How have they been 'added to the live game'? Are the preps in as expansions? Or are you continuing with the hacky solution of just adding last week's prep score to this week's prep score? If you're doing the latter, that's not a working solution at all. All the effort of the prep fighting last night would be lost. Some factions had the CC for preps last week but do not have them this week, so they lose their preps regardless. This smacks of the Mahon snipe-fort debacle where the rules weren't clear and tons of players wasted a ton of cash to do what they thought was correct.

People are losing a crapload of credits because of these foul-ups.

Hopefully, the winners of the prep wars from last week have their expansions for this week.

 

[Martin Schou]

With the preparations, we have seen a lot of feedback regarding the effect that the changes to preparations would make to each power. After review the team believe that the powers in turmoil would still be in turmoil even with these changes and so the difference between having the preparations last week and moving it to this week should be moderate.

I don't know how to say this without sounding like a condescending jerk, but this only makes sense if you do not understand how PowerPlay actually works.

The fact that Patreus and Winters are in turmoil has absolute NO bearing on their ability to have an expansion. Case in point - a few weeks ago Mahon had TWENTY THREE systems in turmoil and FOUR active expansions.

Since both Patreus and Winters have put bad systems into turmoil (well, we don't really know with Patreus, but it's safe to assume), none of their opponents will want to push them into another week of turmoil, as that would make them a stronger power in the long term. This means that the expansions they were supposed to get would be the main focus of opposition, and not their control systems, and the fights would be moved there, and there's every chance they could win the expansions and come out of turmoil.

But now - the effort put into preparations by Patreus and Winters are all for naught. Even if NO ONE were to challenge them in their preparation systems, THEY CANNOT GET ANY SYSTEMS INTO EXPANSIONS FOR CYCLE 54! They are in turmoil - they literally CANNOT afford any preparation systems. Further more - cycle 52 Torval pulled off a fantastic feat. Four preparations, three positive, one with a default deficit of -0.1 CC, perfectly fitting into their budget. But in cycle 53 Torval cannot afford a single one of those preparation systems. And so on and so forth.

I cannot emphasize enough just how horribly out of touch with the rules and flow of PowerPlay the decision for the preparations is.

Let me see if I can't whip up an example of just how unbelievably out of touch this is ...

Ah, I got it. Suppose you're doing a Formula One race. Once you get to the end of the race, it's suddenly discovered that something went horribly wrong and now we have to put the field under safety car and reset the lap counter. However, now we're going to set the starting grid based on each car's placement in the first race. Sounds great. But - it's a Formula One race, and you're not allowed to refuel in Formula One, and the marshals are insistent that this is the fairest way of doing it to avoid favouring anyone.

And I'm not having a go at you personally, Zac. You're the head of community management - you undoubtedly have an enormous amount of things you need to be good at, so we can't and shouldn't expect you to know the knitty gritty details of PowerPlay for example. But if the people who came up with the rules, designed them and have undoubtedly spent oceans of time reading through forums and reddits dedicated to PowerPlay definitely SHOULD know better, or at the VERY LEAST know that they don't know enough about it to make good judgement calls, when quite literally EVERY SINGLE POWER is protesting this idea.

Insert your own large string of expletives here!

 

[GoStu]

I support the idea that PowerPlay needs to go on ice, and ideally be reverted to roughly the state of Cycle 52. The extra two hours were utterly catastrophic for some powers such as Winters. I can't overstate how badly this impacted us - the extra hours pretty much irreversibly screwed our entire Power. Winters have been fighting against Mahon since Cycle 44, in response to actions from Cycle 38 - this has been a 8-week long effort that has been coming down to the wire, as we fight off hostile incursions into our territory while also trying to undermine the Alliance giant, AND try to hold off Empire aggression on the other border in the meantime. The total surprise change to cycle tick time allowed another round of hostile expansions to succeed, and failed our attempt at putting the Alliance in turmoil - our standing CC balance has suffered heavily and the Alliance is not in danger of losing anything soon. From the statement by Frontier above, there'll be "no backsies" - we now just have to try and play through after the rules all changed unexpectedly.

Powerplay's been the thing keeping me going in Elite: Dangerous for the last few months. It was the best way that a strong community could work together and dynamically influence the state of the galaxy. It added much-appreciated context to everything else I do, and how I choose to interact with the background sim, why I make money, what ships I buy/build and where I place them in the galaxy... if Powerplay goes the way of the dinosaur, I'm probably out of here for a good long time. Maybe even permanently.

To all the "It's just a game!" crowd: It's not a game, not to Frontier at the very least. This is their business, and poor handling of their response now is going to take a lot of enthusiasm out of some of their most dedicated players.

 

[dciskey]

Thanks for your patience. The dev team have spent many hours investigating the issues with the PP tick. The team have reviewed what the errors in the data would mean and the state of play were the bugs not to take place. Based on that we have the following issues and actions that we are taking to address them.

Patreus HQ in turmoil - This is an issue that will receive a fix. More news will follow once we have more details
Preparation not added - This has been added to the live game this cycle
Triggers being extremely high - This is a display issue. The actual values are correct but they are displaying incorrectly. This display issue should be fixed in the next point release coming very soon

With the preparations, we have seen a lot of feedback regarding the effect that the changes to preparations would make to each power. After review the team believe that the powers in turmoil would still be in turmoil even with these changes and so the difference between having the preparations last week and moving it to this week should be moderate.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your patience while we investigate the issues.

So, to be clear, preps from last cycle are not moving to expansion this cycle, they're staying as preps? This is a huge issue for Winters, as we should have HIP 47328 as an expansion this cycle, but if it is still in the prep phase we can do nothing to prevent other powers from prepping it, as we're in turmoil.

 

[Starwolfe]

Thanks for your patience. The dev team have spent many hours investigating the issues with the PP tick. The team have reviewed what the errors in the data would mean and the state of play were the bugs not to take place. Based on that we have the following issues and actions that we are taking to address them.

Patreus HQ in turmoil - This is an issue that will receive a fix. More news will follow once we have more details
Preparation not added - This has been added to the live game this cycle
Triggers being extremely high - This is a display issue. The actual values are correct but they are displaying incorrectly. This display issue should be fixed in the next point release coming very soon

With the preparations, we have seen a lot of feedback regarding the effect that the changes to preparations would make to each power. After review the team believe that the powers in turmoil would still be in turmoil even with these changes and so the difference between having the preparations last week and moving it to this week should be moderate.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your patience while we investigate the issues.

It is most definetly NOT "moderate" there pal.

Turmoil affects the expansions going through and the preperations in order in different ways. So when a power is in turmoil with an expansion, so long as they fortify they can expand sucessfully - that is the whole damn reason for the undermine damage needing to count last cycle - it cancelled out the expansion of the Alliance into Hudson and Winters space. Because of the 2 hours, the excess fortification and avoiding that, you screwed over the Fed powers in favor of a "bug" here.

So sorry, no - this does not cut it.


EDIT: and it is even worse. with curretn CC levels, instead of paying for Ch'iang Fei and Ross 33, Hudson can only get Ch'iang Fei. With Winters in turmoil they cannot grab that other expansion, etc... so no.

This is most definitely NOT okay.

 

[yul7896]

How about Winters expansion into HIP 47328? Will this be adjusted?

 

[Misaniovent]

Thanks for your patience. The dev team have spent many hours investigating the issues with the PP tick. The team have reviewed what the errors in the data would mean and the state of play were the bugs not to take place. Based on that we have the following issues and actions that we are taking to address them.

Patreus HQ in turmoil - This is an issue that will receive a fix. More news will follow once we have more details
Preparation not added - This has been added to the live game this cycle
Triggers being extremely high - This is a display issue. The actual values are correct but they are displaying incorrectly. This display issue should be fixed in the next point release coming very soon

With the preparations, we have seen a lot of feedback regarding the effect that the changes to preparations would make to each power. After review the team believe that the powers in turmoil would still be in turmoil even with these changes and so the difference between having the preparations last week and moving it to this week should be moderate.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your patience while we investigate the issues.

Without laying it on: this doesn't help Patreus at all and, in fact, hurts us badly. We also do not know whether or not the correct systems will be placed in turmoil. As we do not know when the next point release will be (very soon is a pretty broad term in development, if I understand correctly), it may still represent a serious (though not as significant) issue. There is no way for players in-game who do not follow this forum and power subreddits to know that this is a bug.

 

[Lord of the Isles]

I don't know how to say this without sounding like a condescending jerk, but this only makes sense if you do not understand how PowerPlay actually works.

That's the most depressing thing (and we really have a lot of candidates this week). Not just that the decisions seem not to make sense but that the language Zac has used to describe what will happen is itself unclear; as though it has been written by someone not familiar with the jargon of PowerPlay.

But I don't suppose it matters. The most generous interpretation I can put on it is that for some technical reason it isn't possible to manually readjust the PowerPlay state back to the end of Cycle 52. Given the highly distributed nature of Elite's multiple databases I suppose that could be the case, even though to us it seems like the least bad option at this point. When it comes to announcing stuff to users I can understand that a company doesn't always want to give details.

For me, well, now that Bounty Farming may no longer be a cost-effective profession, I will stick around for my 50 million CR a cycle, at least for a few weeks until I hit the target balance that I've set myself. Then I may very well be out of the PP door, and will probably keep walking through the bigger door beyond it. We'll see.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Without laying it on: this doesn't help Patreus at all and, in fact, hurts us badly. We also do not know whether or not the correct systems will be placed in turmoil. As we do not know when the next point release will be (very soon is a pretty broad term in development, if I understand correctly), it may still represent a serious (though not as significant) issue. There is no way for players in-game who do not follow this forum and power subreddits to know that this is a bug.

Point release is planned tomorrow/Monday.

 

[Dralamir]

This is rare, but what Vectron said.

"... should be moderate."

If this is final, it simply is not good enough for me. Power Play is broken, unreliable and apparently uncontrollable as well. It's been a fun year supporting Winters, but I don't think I have the will to continue with PP any longer.

 

[Kled7]

This is my opinion on why people get to frustrated with what many see as a lack of attention to power play.

Like others have posted in this thread "this is just a game", but power play is more of a "hobby", a bit more then a game, and bit less then a job, but something you do because you love and care for it.

For instance building models is a hobby. If your model fell off the table, you would be a little angry . If you got a model from a store and pieces where missing, you would be ticked off.

What happened this week is like buying a model, getting it home, opening the box, and finding out that the pieces are missing. You take it back to the store only to be told "No Returns, and besides, the change is only 'moderate'"

A lot of people enjoy this hobby, please, lets just take a break from it and fix it rather then continuing to build a model with missing pieces.

 

[Martin Schou]

Because of the 2 hours, the excess fortification and avoiding that

No. We didn't avoid turmoil because of the fortifications we did after 7 AM. What the fortifications we completed after 7 AM did was bring our surplus up from 253 CC (after winning all four expansions) to 479 CC (after winning all four expansions). This is the exact reason why I didn't want ANY merits generated after 7 AM to count. So why did we do it? Because judging by how PowerPlay bugs tend to be treated, there was every chance that the cycle would continue for several days, and there's absolutely no way that people wouldn't go back to undermining once they noticed that the cycle didn't end, and given FDev's behaviour with regards to game breaking bugs it seemed extremely likely that any merits handed in after 7 AM would count. As such, if we didn't continue fortifying there was a very real risk that we'd be put into turmoil by these late late cycle underminers.

 

[tornad0s]

ZAC, Hello.

Is it problem to recalculate expansions/preparartions/triggers without any bugs and put them in the game? Do you need whole week to recalculate numbers?

Are you sure next wednesday you will not have new bug, like that?

 

[TychoDirge]

If the situation is serious enough to warrant Mahon players advocating for Winters preps to move to expansion, we've crossed into new, dark and twisted territory in PowerPlay. But that's where we are.

Patreus and Winters should get their expansions. Their players did exactly what they needed to do to get them. Denying them their expansions is straight up unfair and unsportsmanlike.

And regarding the overtime Mahon fortifications, I can state for the record, as the Asp driver that finished off Leesti at 3:50 AM, that we made a communal decisions to NOT underestimate how badly FDev could **** the cycle up once we understood that the tick didn't happen when it should have. First cycle after 2.1 and the cycle doesn't tick? It was obvious that there was a Power Play disaster brewing. Unfortunately we were correct beyond our wildest expectations.

Here's what a fort run at 3:30 AM is like:

1. Pick up 14 merits at Leesti when we need 24. Deliver them to Gateway
2. Realize you're 10 short, fly back to Leesti
3. Forget to hit 'confirm' when picking up forts and then launch without refueling.
4. Realize you don't have enough gas to make it back to Gateway - land at Leesti again.
5. Accidentally hit 'Launch' instead of 'Starport Services' immediately upon landing. Leave station and land at Leesti again.
6. Pick of forts and set off for Gateway
7. One jump out of Leesti, second guess yourself about hitting 'confirm' when picking up forts because you messed that up already.
8. Check inventory. Forgot to hit confirm. Fly back to Leesti.
9. Pick of forts. Hit confirm. Check inventory. Forts are there.
10. Fly back to Gateway and finish fortifying Leesti.
11. Hear my wife yell, "Why are you up!?!?! It's 4:00 in the morning! Have you even walked the dogs yet?"

 

[jprelph]

Thanks for your patience. The dev team have spent many hours investigating the issues with the PP tick. The team have reviewed what the errors in the data would mean and the state of play were the bugs not to take place. Based on that we have the following issues and actions that we are taking to address them.

Patreus HQ in turmoil - This is an issue that will receive a fix. More news will follow once we have more details
Preparation not added - This has been added to the live game this cycle
Triggers being extremely high - This is a display issue. The actual values are correct but they are displaying incorrectly. This display issue should be fixed in the next point release coming very soon

With the preparations, we have seen a lot of feedback regarding the effect that the changes to preparations would make to each power. After review the team believe that the powers in turmoil would still be in turmoil even with these changes and so the difference between having the preparations last week and moving it to this week should be moderate.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your patience while we investigate the issues.

Hi Zac,

I just want to reiterate this and have confirmation that this is understood - this solution massively effects Winters negatively. Even though we would have been in turmoil, if the cycle tick had worked we would still be able to expand to HIP 47328. We won the prep to that system and turmoil does not stop a system going into expansion. As it is we cannot expand that system this week because we now no longer have the CC - this means that ALD - who we beat in prep for the system last week - can prep that system unopposed.

Can you please confirm that the devs are aware that they are disadvantaging Winters (at least) with this "solution"?

 

[Martin Schou]

That's the most depressing thing (and we really have a lot of candidates this week). Not just that the decisions seem not to make sense but that the language Zac has used to describe what will happen is itself unclear; as though it has been written by someone not familiar with the jargon of PowerPlay.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to shoot the messenger, and that's what Zac is, but the point still stands - the decision to move the preparation merits from cycle 52 to cycle 53 shows an amazing lack of understanding of PowerPlay by whatever group made it. Zac may or may not have that lack of understanding, but this is irrelevant - he's the messenger, not the one in charge.

 

[AreZee]

Thanks for your patience. The dev team have spent many hours investigating the issues with the PP tick. The team have reviewed what the errors in the data would mean and the state of play were the bugs not to take place. Based on that we have the following issues and actions that we are taking to address them.

Patreus HQ in turmoil - This is an issue that will receive a fix. More news will follow once we have more details
Preparation not added - This has been added to the live game this cycle
Triggers being extremely high - This is a display issue. The actual values are correct but they are displaying incorrectly. This display issue should be fixed in the next point release coming very soon

With the preparations, we have seen a lot of feedback regarding the effect that the changes to preparations would make to each power. After review the team believe that the powers in turmoil would still be in turmoil even with these changes and so the difference between having the preparations last week and moving it to this week should be moderate.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your patience while we investigate the issues.

this is not acceptable at all, I'm really sorry but I have to disagree about the "fix". As many already stated we don't need another plaster on the big wounds powerplay has been struggling with for months now. We reached a point where all the first aid applied to powerplay is not an option anymore. We need a surgery! Take your time, freeze powerplay and revamp it or this becomes the biggest meltdown in history of Elite... I speak as member of Torval and our effort last cycle has no meaning now. Many of our players dealt with all the bugs with the release of 2.1 and we still managed to get good preps. We don't have the CC this cycle and all the point in preps have no effect for us this cycle. This is a slap in the face!

 

[Corrigendum]

Triggers being extremely high - This is a display issue. The actual values are correct but they are displaying incorrectly. This display issue should be fixed in the next point release coming very soon

[video=youtube_share;oDIrOE_fnl8]http://youtu.be/oDIrOE_fnl8[/video]

 

[Martin Schou]

As many already stated we don't need another plaster on the big wounds powerplay has been struggling with for months now.

The proposed fix isn't a plaster - they've tried to add an orthopaedic cast but accidentally used thermite with inlaid magnesium strips, then they accidentally exposed it to a naked flame - and now they're claiming that it's just a minor inconvenience.