preview observations

[sharpize]

Game Version: Xbox One Game Preview
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Description:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I keep loosing connection which is really frustrating when the game is so darned hard to start with. I have literally spent days on this just learning and restarted my pilot several times and died just as many. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Speaking as a console user who once played this game on pc and earlier on the atari (I know), I feel this game may have to look at what it pushes at console users a little differently to pc gamers if it is to make a success of this futures market. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The first and most important part is early player accessibility. Its one thing to dump this beta on a bunch of nerds like myself but console gamers (who really need more games like this) will play this for a couple of hours - loose hope and throw away the controller. There is just no portal for newbies to the genre. The training scripts and videos don't show any button controls or usage and are boring. Keep them anyway - improve them if you will, but its in the game that it gets crazy. You start folks out at the hardest possible place when they are in their greatest need of a hook. The middle of nowhere, the weakest ship, no knowledge and no community.

Money is made slower than it is spent and there are nearly no missions. And missions, when they come are all but impossible to do - especially to the initiate. So you hunt someone down; you find said someone; they are in hyperspace as are you; you follow them; they jump. What do you do with this kind of dull and pointless gameplay. Its ok to be difficult this is just a franchise killer. Console players who are not anorak for this sort of thing will just exhile the game from their machines and tell their friends to avoid it like the plague and this will become the first an last Elite for xbox. You need loads of missions. You need many in the local/same system as well as some in neighbouring systems, easy to find and complete. Linkable clues should be present in the mission statements - things like coordinates that you can just select in the contracts panel that your 'auto-pilot?' will take you to or at least present as a target.

Trading with 4 space in the cargo hold is lame. This is not intrinsically a problem. What is, is the fact that someone new to the game will not know this and will therefore waste long periods of time trying to get to grips with trading before realising that you can't start the game off like that. Its just too laborious. Console gamers are for the large part, folks that have come home from work and just want to spend a couple of hours letting off steam. You will disenfranchise them. Either give them more trading missions or create a from/to trade predictor so they dont completely waste their time.

Lives, equipment and saves. One life? Really? At least give us saves. I've restarted this game so many times I'm starting to feel like playing it is actually a backwards process. If we can't get a foothold, how can we get anywhere? What about pilots - why are we only allowed 1? There is a balance to be struck, I just don't think this is it.

If the game depends on some sort of self generating missions then create just a 100 fixed starter missions to be randomly available for the purposes of introduction. Once a person reaches some point of experience let a calamitous event happen reducing them to some point closer to the one you currently have as a starting point but allow the player to retrieve things like their original ship but damaged with some parts destroyed, accounts scattered across 2 or 3 systems and let them build back up. And for goodness sakes, get saves in. You should always be able to backtrack at least a little.

On a slightly different note, on the xbox If you try to load up another app in the side panel such as youtube (which demands you to go to full screen temporarily), when I jump back into elite, it always disconnects me. Pc gamers can watch videos while they are travelling (because so much time is spent waiting to arrive places) and it would be inappropriate to exclude xbox users from doing the same thing when the xbox itself is quite capable of this.

Community sucks on this game as well btw. Its not some xbox gamers are used to. You may have to throw more people more closely together and have at least system wide community boards/channels up - names of players with a small activity and location updater - linkable to the navigation system.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How this would affect gameplay: It would enable users to access the more enjoyable depths this game has to offer.

I'm very excited about this game and I can't help feeling that a few tweeks (very hard for programmers I know) here and there and it could be the most sought after game on consoles. [/FONT]

 

[Scram77]

It sounds like you are looking for a completely different game to what Elite is.

"Money is made slower than it is spent and there are nearly no missions"

I don't see the game like that. Money is very easy to make in this game but it takes time to build up enough to buy the bigger, more expensive ships which should be the case. If everyone was able to just pick up the game and get the best ship within 5 hrs of playing it would ruin the experience for everyone involved.

Trading with 4 space in the cargo hold is lame. This is not intrinsically a problem. What is, is the fact that someone new to the game will not know this and will therefore waste long periods of time trying to get to grips with trading before realising that you can't start the game off like that. Its just too laborious

I see what you are trying to say; that console players have less patience, but that's really not the case. You're not going to get the COD crowd to put down the latest installment of their franchise and come and play this game in the spirit that it was intended; but that's not the intention of this game. People will come to play this game as it is because of what it is - not because it's been altered to cater for a different crowd looking for different things.

Lives, equipment and saves. One life? Really? At least give us saves. I've restarted this game so many times I'm starting to feel like playing it is actually a backwards process. If we can't get a foothold, how can we get anywhere? What about pilots - why are we only allowed 1? There is a balance to be struck, I just don't think this is it.

If you die in this game you don't just end there. You get to buy back your ship at a reduced rate through "insurance", so not sure what you are getting at about wanting lives. If players in this game dies without any consequence then you would just get idiots shooting anyone and anything and not caring how they were ruining the game for everyone else as it wouldn't be effecting their game at all. The current system is great as it gives players the ability to act responsibly, however if they don't then there would be consequences.

Community sucks on this game as well btw

I can't disagree with you more on this point. Out of all the xbox games I've played this has one of the best communites out there. There is no ing about lag, or noobs etc, and everyone is looking to help in one way or another. This may change over time when more people get to play it, but for the time being it's great.

Not looking to argue, but just had to comment on your points.

 

[sharpize]

humn... of course you like the game but it isn't going to make it on consoles in its current form. I've went from COD to this but I have also played this game since 30 years ago. Its not enough to just update the graphics especially if you are trying to appeal to another market. I want this game to do well so it is going to have to listen to ideas like these.

The community you refer to is just irrelevant. The communities are on forums and unless xbox users want to use another device they will never even know this. Its very inconvenient and completely impractical to associate 'a community' with 'the community'.

My other points remain as is. Your points are a defensive argument with their own merit but do little to assuage the points in their context. I understand the reasons for the game being the way it is, but it isn't going to sell. I love this game but I can only inform my friends to steer clear of it because I know what they like/tolerate even! and this isn't it. You are right in your first comment ... 'It sounds like you are looking for a completely different game to what Elite is.' . I want a space exploration game with trading a fighting in it. I also want to have fun and relax. This is also the case for pretty much every other console user out there. Especially those with jobs - the paying customers.

 

[MDH PYRO]

Agree that tutorials need some work....You can save at any time...press start save and exit.....when you log back in you will be in the system you was in the last time you logged out.....Game is new to console so some things are broken. You say trading is lame with 4 space cargo?......like every other online game..you have to work your way up to the better items...if they give you the best stuff so you can carry more right away the game would have no longevity. Trust me this game will sell........

 

[EffectOne]

I think the gameplay mechanics you perceive to be problems are problems because you are not the target audience of this game. Elite is the Dark Souls equivalent of the space genre.

It is hard. It is punishing. It has a steep(ish) learning curve. It takes patience. It is also extremely rewarding if you approach the game with that in mind.

One thing I do think it could do with is an expanded tutorial system. That said, I am probably 8-10 hours in and I have not found any aspect of the game's interface to be beyond my capability to work out, to date.

 

[Janx]

I think the parts that need to improve are the tutorials and the web content from Frontier.

I spent 2 days looking for info on the actual Factions (what is Hudson like, compared to princess duval) or finding EDDB.io so I could look up systems, stations and their tradeables.

That kind of thing could have been on the Frontier/ED web site, but it wasn't. And it wasn't in a consolidated place as a Sticky for "go here, get info"

But that's all external to the game itself.

Yes, the game is hard. As a working adult, it will be hard to put in more than a few hours a week into it. As long as I don't lose my place, it'll be OK. It's like reading a book. You open it up to the bookmark and pick up where you left off.

Now that I have EDDB, doing trades is a lot easier, because I can see what's wanted and what's where and make a plan.

 

[Lock]

My 2 cents:

The game is ok, elite was that way, Frontier was that way and Elite Dangerous has to be made that way. You can't transform it in a Xwing game. Is it boring? Yes, there are parts of the game that annoys me (take the long procedure to select a system, docking, etc.) but they're part of it. It's more like a space simulation that a game.

I agree, however, that tutorials are terrible. I knew Elite when I've launched ED for the first time and I wasted my 1h trial only to understand how to do things. Then I've spent the following week searching on Google for anything: what does what, how to do what, what are the best items for that ship, trading bases, how to exit supercruise facing the space station, what is supercruise, etc...
This shouldn't happen, in a console game but on PC too. We're not in '80, I want to buy a game and learn about it without leaving it and go to ask elsewhere.
I still don't know a lot of things about ED and it's not a good feeling.

I think a nice story won't spoil the game. Something like extended missions: You start one and then follow it, it will take here, do that, jump there and so on. At this stage it's just all around random. You check bulletin board and most of the times there are useless missions (I mean, I still see ones that give you 2k credits. Really?).

It has potential but Frontier needs to work a lot around it. At the moment it's just a nerd game and not all '80 nerds have now the patience to spend their limited time learning everything again.

 

[[VR] Garfs]

I guess this is more an issue with player base than the game itself

I played the original elite on the bbc micro when i was a kid and LOVED it - used to have "computers" for gaming from spectrum to commodore through to amiga etc etc and when gaming consoles emerged i was instantly hooked - had virtualy every console known to man

But one thing i missed more than anything from the old computer days were the simulations, the flight sims etc with keyboard overloays and instruction manuals the size of encycolpedias

I'm not saying this games needs a huge manual - what i mean is i like learning about huge indepth games - the sense of achievement just so much more

Anyway when i heard of ED on the pc i started to keep an eye on it - but when i heard it was coming to xbox end of year i started to watch every youtube vid or twich stream i could

So when i got the early release i kinda knew what to do and how to do it all ready

Guess what i'm trying to say is everything you need is there if you look around for it - but as the OP has said most console gamers dont want this - they want instant gratification - which i fear may not be good news for this game

But for me - its the game ive been waiting for since i started playing consoles

 

[SoapMonkey]

Its very inconvenient and completely impractical to associate 'a community' with 'the community'.

I want a space exploration game with trading a fighting in it. I also want to have fun and relax. This is also the case for pretty much every other console user out there. Especially those with jobs - the paying customers.

Wow. You can't criticize the guy for something and then do THE EXACT SAME THING ONE PARAGRAPH LATER.

 

[cptfreewil]

I want this game to do well so it is going to have to listen to ideas like these.

Presumptuous and completely unfounded. Arrogant? Yea. A little. You obviously have no idea how a simulator works and all your ideas simply encourage players to come to a game that dedicated players want to enjoy. I don't want the people playing that need the 'improvements' you suggest. You all can keep playing CoD forever. Have it. I don't want it or your type in my verse. You people ruined Battlefield for me. Stay away from Elite.

 

[TriumphANT]

Whilst I agree that the tutorials are out-of-date, and that new players may be a little lost, your other points really don't come across very well. Consoles are crying out for deep, involving games that you don't just click a button to do everything, and take hours to work up the skills to play properly. This is a simulator, not an arcade game, and as such it takes a bit more time to understanding the depth of every action. I won't pick holes in your points, but the "day 1 Sidewinder" thing is quickly overcome, especially in the beta. For example, I immediately sold my Sidey and bought an Adder with 16T of cargo space, and some other small upgrades. My first rares/exploration run made me just a shade over 300,000Cr, which I spent on upgrades to the FSD and Fuel Scoop. I'm not just about up to being able to buy a basic Cobra. 36-40T of cargo is enough for 1,000,000Cr per hour profit. It's not a hard game, but it's tough to start off. Some love given to the tutorials is almost essential, but the manual is pretty decent, and there's a lot that can be worked out by yourself. Old school gaming for the current gen consoles? I love it.

 

[Jaguarp4w]

I think you have some valid points. I used to be a PC gamer but due to lack of time ( grown up, wife + 2 kids ) I moved to console to play simpler games with lots of action. I Was excited about Elite for some time but after playing it I feel a bit frustrated. The only way to progress in the game is to ask for help in the forums or go on google and browse for the answers. To me that is a major flaw. There are a lot of good people on these forums who always help out so I found that really helpfull. I just think as a game developer you should let the player understand all the mechanics of the game and Elite doesn't come anywhere close to that. I really hope that things improve. I'll put some more hours in but if things don't start falling in place I'll have to move on. If only I had more time.

 

[[VR] Garfs]

Old school gaming for the current gen consoles? I love it.

exactly this!

 

[Kelvinmorcillo]

Note: This game is a work in progress. It may or may not change over time and may not release as a final product. Please purchase only if you are comfortable with the current state of the unfinished game.

I think this is enough.

 

[Jaguarp4w]

A work in progress should have gamers thinking, wow this is brilliant. Not is going on lol. I think everyone who has paid for the preview wants the game to do well, I just hope it does. Great concept and who doesn't love sci-fi.

 

[Cmdr-Wotherspoon]

You make some excellent points, and I hope that FD reads early XB One feedback and takes note. I believe the CQC feature is a nod to the different needs of console players, but it probably isn't enough to make the game successful.

I happen to like the game as it is (although I hope it will be fleshed out over time). The "dump the player in a space station and let them work out for themselves what to do" approach appealed to me. I spent several days trying to work out what to do, and making a terrible hash of everything, but I eventually got the hang of it, and very slowly learned what I needed to do to. And more importantly what I enjoyed doing, as there is no "point" to Eliteangerous. You just live in the Elite universe, and do whatever you want. I have not participated in PowerPlay at all, but the nice thing is I don't have to.

But I'm not a gamer (except for this one), and I suspect that FD may need to consider compromising a little more towards the needs of gamers.

It is really interesting hearing your views, because you're coming new to the game, and you can see the forest that more experienced plays can't see because of all the trees getting in the way. I agree that it has huge potential, and like you I hope it delivers on that potential in due course!

 

[mavrac]

Though I will not say your opinion is not important, it is.

As "scream77" has said, the game that you're attempting to change this too is not elite. You're right many console gamers will pass it by. Leaving the game to a higher quality of gamer, IMHO. Many ppl that like ruining gaming experiences will not do this on elite ( though there may be some cases )just for the fact that it would require many hours to do, and then when they die, it takes many hours to get to where they were.

I wonder if you were the kind of child that was given your first car or actually worked hard to purchase your first car. Elite creates a since of ownership, and you feel like you have accomplished a feat of a grand scale unlike beating a halo game in a handful of hours. How can you feel accomplished when you were tugged around by bread crumbs, and given the best ship from the start.

As a community this is also recognized. Hey check out CMDR "fill blank" He is in the Python that thing cost 54 or what ever million creds, and he is dangerous ranked, man he put some real time into this game. That's the kind of personal and community accomplishments you will experience.

This game was never designed to cater to the Halo and COD fans. Though I am sure many will, and do find this game to be just as incredible as I do. Yes the devs would love to sell 10 mil copies but if it was the only thing they cared about This game would be exactly as you described and would be more like Destiny and less like the space game ive been waiting my life to play.

Yes starting out is tough, and you complain about starting over many times. You want saves to go back to, but that defeats the purpose of the game. Ok lets create saves to go back to. I am in a pimped out Python and decided id go to a system that is commonly populated by new players. I just started killing and killing yay right? NO. So eventually ill die, but who cares right? ill just load up my save and do it again, and ruin the experience of even more new players to the point that they will not want to play again.

I again appreciate your opinion on Elite. I hope that you can find the greatness that is this game ( even in its current state, which though troubled at times, has not made me want to stop playing) that many other players on pc/mac/x1 have grown to love. The reality here may be from your post, is that this is not the game for you, and may never be. Its cool it happens, I wont play COD even if it was the only game, same goes with sports games. We all have our likes and dislikes. But under no circumstances should ED cater to all gamers and make this game Elite Destiny or Elite Duty. This game weeds out the ppl that need that easy fulfillment. It thanks those that actually like challenge, and find this game to be exactly the kind of game they have been waiting for. In time this game will add many new features, like planet landings, FPS exploration in ships, stations and many planets, rumors of owning your own space station type base in an asteroid belt. and many many more to come.

I wish you luck on your hunt for that perfect game for you.

You should look into star citizen it may be more your game

Examples that this type of game is popular with devs is ( No Mans Sky ) which is very popular so far with gamers already

 

[kin Grunt]

I believe the original Elite which, I first played on the C64 attracted and held a certain type of gamer and certainly was not pick up, play and get instant gratification which I think so many of the younger generations of gamers are used to today. The learning curve was very steep back then as it is now and was not for the feint hearted. I remember trying to dock a ship Into a wire framed station for hours and remained dogged to raise the capital to buy a docking computer. Elite back then utterly fuelled my imagination as it was mostly a monochrome game and as stated wireframe. It's most important element was your own imagination and that is still required today as you choose the path you wish to play and then given a universe to play in. Why should it not be challenging? Do we not try, try, try again anymore?

Elite, I believe appeals to those that loved, Lego, meccano, action man, cardboard boxes and blankets that you turned into space ships in your living room as a kid and will equally appeal to today's Gta and mine craft generation. Let's not forget that there are now multiple generations of gamers! I'm 49 and have played since the 70s, my father is 71 and plays fifa and battlefield on the playstation 3, he's not gone quite next gen yet lol. My 19 year old son is just utterly knocked out by the gameplay and in awe of the depth of it... I believe us blokes never grow up.

Why is there such a tendency to want to pigeon hole? Console or PC, Xbox or playstation? I've had and played on nearly every system and only just recently sold my C64 (I got more money than I paid for it back in the eighties). If you are a true gamer then you don't get drawn into the debate about what is better, it's about the game surely not the box it runs on. The original Elite wouldn't have won awards for graphics yet it's graphics that get compared and seem so important to millions today yet, gameplay in so many of today's releases get so annoyingly over looked and do not hold you as a player or allow you any imagination for very long.

Releasing this game as a preview and giving people the chance to play with a staggering 100k start is inspired in my opinion. It gives the plug and play generations of gamers a chance to have a softer start in the Elite universe which inturn encourages and kickstarts the imagination rather than spoon feed it as so many apps and software does today. Add to that youtube tutorials, forums, multiplayer for help and advice which will spread the best form of advertising, word of mouth and Elite will surely be huge again.

As gaming goes I'm proud to have picked this up in the early eighties, when there was little to no hype for games and you really did take your chances buying those cassettes or 3" floppy disc games. I still remain staggered by how Frontier got a universe into 64mb back then and less in some cases. I had no expectation or hesitation in downloading the preview some 30 odd years later, so happy I did.

For once, this is a game that really does not need totally reinventing! It just needed to add colour and your mates. Let the masses discover it and learn to use their own imaginations like so many of us had to way back then.