I wouldn't mind if honking rewards were set to 0. But travellers still will get honk rewards, so they're not losing out.
Proposal: alternative to outright removal of ADS instascan & system map minigame for explorers
- Thread starter StuartGT
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- exploration suggestion
I wouldn't mind if honking rewards were set to 0. But travellers still will get honk rewards, so they're not losing out.
I wanted to emphasise this.
Anyone who jumps in, refuels while scanning, then jumps out - and call this 'exploration' - is plain wrong. Right now, that IS how it works, and it is clear this was not the intended end result.
You gain little credits anyway for just scanning a system, and I think the concept of gaining the amount of information you currently do from this initial scan is just a bit too much. Yes, people complained previously when everything was dark outlines - but this WAS a justified complaint because of the lack of tools.
Now we're getting these tools, and therefore the gameplay NEEDS to be adjusted to make sure we can (and have) to use them. You can still get minimal info from an initial scan (my understanding from the live stream), which just scans the main star, and offers signal info on possible bodies in the system - and you'll likely be paid the same number of credits. However, to figure out exactly what planets are made of, you need to scan properly - which sounds like it;ll take a few seconds to recognise the general layout of the system, and then more time to pinpoint individual objects, yielding credits in the process. Then you fly to each planet and scan using probes for maximum info, and maximum credit reward.
I see nothing wrong with any of this for 'proper' explorers. OF course, you could just fly around and find things yourself if you wanted, noone's stopping you. But to find those nice vistas, you're going to have to actually work for it now, rather than just press a button and get everything insta-mapped.
It's great* not only how many people have decided their definition of what an explorer is is the only valid one, but also how many people seem genuinely pleased other people might potentially be upset at the upcoming changes to the point it wrecks the game they love for them.
*Pathetic.
*Pathetic.
Also it baffles me how they can go: well, I'm glad the honk and jump exploration is a thing of the past and think that's what we're objecting to. Honk and jump still is very much possible, perhaps even more so than before.
I sometimes wonder whether we're all talking about the same Q4 exploration update. But then again, I'm not a proper explorer, so what do I know?
i like to find ELWs. And not for the credits. The R2R should be nerfed by not giving credits for quick scans.
ELWs take on average 2 to 3 hours to find even when "honking" only AFG stars, which are the systems most likely to contain ELWs.
As the current ADS scan takes only a few seconds and each jump a minute, that requires about 150 systems to be scanned before finding an ELW.
I find that a reasonable rate of return on the time spent.
If the new mechanic takes 5 minutes then thats 6 times longer than currently, I dont think I would bother to look for ELWs. (Even if other interesting things are found along the way).
My suggestion would be that instead of a totally blanked out disc on the system map as suggested above, the disc could be coloured blue for "water and ELWs", white for ice, grey for rock etc.
That way a summary check could be achieved without giving any detail.
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We still need to see the details of course, but as I understand it, we will be able to recognise (at least potential) ELW/WW/AW from the honk. In that regard, and if that's true, the new mechanic won't take longer than it does now. Instead of checking the sys map, you check your electromagnetic signatures, and move on if no candidates are available.
Plus, when finding an ELW (or candidate) you don't have to fly towards it to scan it, you can do this straight away.
Looking forward to the beta test....
Indeed. Good thing they plan to have it early, so they can let the players voice their opinion and have time to do changes before release.
I have a feeling there will be lots more hefty arguing over the coming ADS changes..
[video=youtube_share;emKIIv2_cNI]https://youtu.be/emKIIv2_cNI[/video]
A wise person once said, "it's not the destination, it's the journey." The ADS honk is all destination and no journey. The process of "investigation" is boiled down to a simple button press, and POOF the mystery is murdered in its sleep. The rest of the "investigation" is all just looking for a scenic place to bore your friends with vacation photos.
My only concern are systems in the bubble - however, we have nav beacons, so people will have to use them.
Overall, just scanning planets from afar will be much faster than travelling to them all the time.
I think we should try it out in beta before being too fast to judge.
The community has a habit of sticking their opinions in early and then frontier listens too eagerly.
It happened to the payouts in multicrew for God's sake - no incentive so no one does it - ruined by community feedback.
No instant scans, in my opinion. Let them impliment it how they imagined it. They will up the pay anyway.
Yes, it may finally put an end to those sole pilots that do nothing but scan earthlikes then ignore everything else - exploring should be all about properly cataloguing.
Overall, just scanning planets from afar will be much faster than travelling to them all the time.
I think we should try it out in beta before being too fast to judge.
The community has a habit of sticking their opinions in early and then frontier listens too eagerly.
It happened to the payouts in multicrew for God's sake - no incentive so no one does it - ruined by community feedback.
No instant scans, in my opinion. Let them impliment it how they imagined it. They will up the pay anyway.
Yes, it may finally put an end to those sole pilots that do nothing but scan earthlikes then ignore everything else - exploring should be all about properly cataloguing.
I'd take the op's system - but actually with less data - all planets blacked out - no rings shown - but the number of bodies, distances I think works - I just want a bare bones overview if I'm passing through ie if it has 1 or 32 bodies - 1 or more stars - rough layout of the system that sort of thing. When it comes to actual exploring then I'm fine with spending time on probes etc.
I'd actually be inclined to do away the need to scan nav beacons as well - if it's an inhabited system why can't my on board computer pick up the data automatically the same as it apparently gets info on station etc ?
So inhabited system - info avaliable automatically, no exploring required - though more detailed planetary surveys could be worthwile for looking for specific minerals say.
Uninhabited system - Main star plus "black" place markers for number and rough size\layout of a system - all other info has to be gained if required via probes, scouting etc.
Oh and no money at all if no "scouting" of some sort done in a system - or very minimal for the star type alone - only be paid for the actual amount and quality of info you bring back.
edit - especially if an inhabited system - so you never "knew" about it - tough - someone someplace else did.
I'd actually be inclined to do away the need to scan nav beacons as well - if it's an inhabited system why can't my on board computer pick up the data automatically the same as it apparently gets info on station etc ?
So inhabited system - info avaliable automatically, no exploring required - though more detailed planetary surveys could be worthwile for looking for specific minerals say.
Uninhabited system - Main star plus "black" place markers for number and rough size\layout of a system - all other info has to be gained if required via probes, scouting etc.
Oh and no money at all if no "scouting" of some sort done in a system - or very minimal for the star type alone - only be paid for the actual amount and quality of info you bring back.
edit - especially if an inhabited system - so you never "knew" about it - tough - someone someplace else did.
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Did you knick that from my original rant about the black spheres in 2016? Because it's the same screenshot that I took back then.
Anyway - biding time now, hardly bothering with the forums from now on. I'm waiting to see what Frontier vomits up in the Q4 beta onwards before having any more thoughts on this ADS minigame stuff. Curious to see if it's as awful as it looks right now.
As for the black spheres thing - always thought it wasn't a bug as was claimed in 2016, because it looked too neatly drawn to be a bug - also it was a mysteriously well programmed bug in that planets mysteriously got drawn in after being surface scanned.
And always thought they'd think up a way to get that bit of code back in. If I were the paranoid type, I'd be thinking "that's the way they wanted the system map to be like all along, and the recent ADS reveal is a way of playing the likes of me and others - who think the new ADS mechanic is - like a piano. That we'd come to accept the black spheres system map as a compromise, however grudgingly."
Luckily I'm just cynical.
Well, once one learns the new mechanic and can recognise those high paying objects just by their signature, then it should be quite quick, true. So no reason to keep the current instascan then as it will be easy to recognise their signatures AND there'll be no need to actually fly to the object to scan it, saving time overall over the current system. Solved.
As for 'cherrypicking' becoming more prevalent, maybe it will, but those that want that type of 'exploration' will at least have to exercise a little bit of knowledge instead of just looking at a system map gained at the press of a button. AND they'll have to choose whether to spend more time in the system and some skill to actually map those objects if they want the mapped by tag as well.
I nicked it from Google's image search, then replicated it from imgur to a new imgur mirror - cheers for not deleting your original otherwise I wouldn't have found a suitable image
Ok, thanks for your cynical input
I think you could very well be right - luckily it would do for me, but yeah that does seem to have been a very "odd" bug that functioned so well.
If it were some other developer i would say wait for beta, if it doesn't work in beta some work and re do it during the beta. But frontier has shown that they don't do huge change to mechanics during beta period. This exploration system should be tested in beta if it doesn't work throw away hole thing or alter it before the final release. But frontier doesn't do that so we will be stuck with it for months at best and at worst 4 years like we have been with the honk. We can't test if it works or not we will get it what ever it works or not.
This causes that players need to moan and complain in advance.
This causes that players need to moan and complain in advance.
Note the post from Michael Brookes back then - that black spheres code was actually a real bit of code and that's what FDEV intended the ADS scan to be like originally - the black sphere code was left in, deactivated, and due to a bug was reactivated back then.
I'll also note that some of the objections to changing how the ADS works back then in 2016 by a few posters, are still valid now. It seems Frontier's designers haven't properly read previous threads on this or didn't know those threads existed - or perhaps agreed with some of the worst ideas and look what they've done for Q4 :/
But, cherry picking is not the reason people are arguing to keep some of the information of the system map. Since there's no reason to remove that information, might as well keep it, right?
No argument about that.