proposal for alternative SC mechanic

Ok....after getting into several SC discussions I though I'd throw an idea out.

So here is the problem as I see it:

1) space is big.
2) players want to "feel" like space is big. Currently this takes the form of the game deliberately wasting the player's time when traveling from point a to point b.
3) when players complain that SC takes too long, it's not that it just takes too long, but that there's nothing to do. You're literally not playing the game and letting the computer idle for an arbitrary amount of time while a countdown clock decides when it's been impressed upon you enough how big space really is.

Let me make a suggestion - give us something to do in SC rather than just wasting our time to the point where people watch Netflix while "playing" the game.

1) remove the arbitrary 2001C speed limit. It's cute, 2001 was a great movie, but Elite Dangerous is a great game and could be better.
2) increase the max acceleration rate in SC....nothing crazy maybe 4x of what it is now. It's just a guess and probably will need some fine-tuning.
3) this is the interesting part here - make us actually NAVIGATE in SC. There are gravity interactions between all the bodies, right? That's why they orbit each other. So...why not use those gravity interactions to create some kind of navigation mechanic where you have to fly through the various gravity interactions between bodies around you?
4) the faster you go, the more intense these gravity interactions become and the more skill is required to negotiate them and stay on course/not e-drop out of SC.

So there. This allows players to SC travel as fast as their skill will allow. It allows for in game growth as a player becomes more skilled at SC navigation and as SC-related modules are upgraded and engineered and are rewarded with faster SC travel as their skill/ship improves. It transforms SC travel from staring at pixel trails at best and watching Netflix at worst to actual gameplay!! It could allow further mechanics around avoiding/outmanuvering interdictors in SC.

It doesn't just create a short cut for space travel. It adds new engaging gameplay. It allows the covering of mind-numbing distances to far-away secondary systems while still requiring some skill as you surf the gravity waves. It could potentially add depth to pvp and pve interactions by allowing players to use the environment around them to avoid/ambush other ships in SC.

Make leaving/entering planetary orbit an EVENT to be interacted with rather than just a waiting game. Make the gravitational interactions between solar systems and various orbits gameplay, not a countdown clock until gameplay starts.

well....now's the part where 300 neckbeards tell me this idea is crap.
 
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It's crap. ;)

Seriously I don't mind it. As long as it isn't too punishing when you are not good, them I'm all up for that.

There maybe things to do when space legs is a thing, but that won't be for a while if it does come that is.
 
1) remove the arbitrary 2001C speed limit. It's cute, 2001 was a great movie, but Elite Dangerous is a great game and could be better.
2) increase the acceleration rate in SC....nothing crazy maybe 4x of what it is now. It's just a guess and probably will need some fine-tuning.
3) this is the interesting part here - make us actually NAVIGATE in SC. There are gravity interactions between all the bodies, right? That's why they orbit each other. So...why not use those gravity interactions to create some kind of navigation mechanic where you have to fly through the various gravity interactions between bodies around you?
4) the faster you go, the more intense these gravity interactions become and the more skill is required to negotiate them and stay on course/not e-drop out of SC.
I like the post because its a normal suggestion rather than the usual "Raarrgh, it sucks" type of post.

Also, not a neckbeard, i don't even have a beard, despite the modern trend amongst people to have beards. These things go in cycles though. Not sure about other countries, but here in Russia the kids are all going for 80s style fashion... the sort of thing that appears regularly on /r/BlunderYears. I've tried to tell my daughter many times that she will look back on photos of this time with regret, but for her its fashionable at the moment.

Ahem, anyway, i digress.

1) Agreed, unless there is some sort of technical reason, it could be done away with, although it will lessen the Hutton joke a little bit. Also, apparently at least one dev thought it was 2000, not 2001. Not sure if they were simply not in on the joke, or that they never meant it as a reference to 2001, someone just pulled 2000 out of thin air and the extra 1 is just a rounding error.

2) Hmm... i would like to see the game take travel distance more into account with rewards, but not like it was a year or so ago where staring at SC could net you bazillions. I also think 4x would probably be too much. Perhaps in line with your number 3, make the acceleration faster, but make bodies have a bigger impact on "slowdown", so it actually is faster to get off the system plane if your target is some distance out to avoid going near bodies.

3) I think you are thinking of things backwards here? If we were doing slingshots then yes, that would make sense, although it would be a pain if the planet we needed was currently on the other side of the system. Its simply about avoidance, see my point 2. Get off the galactic plane and be happy.

4) I can see this just being a giant pain in the rear end, that would end up with dozens of forum threads with people complaining about it, and i personally don't think it would be a good idea.

As usual, i think there might be some comments along the lines of "give us something to do in SC", but the issue is, people don't want to do things in SC. They just want to get from A to B as quick as possible. There are signal sources to investigate, but the only time you investigate them is when you need or want to investigate them, not when travelling. Ultimately, people just want to get from A to B as quick as possible, which might sound like the simple solution is to make A to B travel instant, or damn near to it, but then, what does the dev do? Nerf A to B missions into the ground? What do they do about (NPC) piracy? And of course, it would ultimately annoy a lot of players that this giant space game would be reduced into a much smaller space game. Argue as you like as to whether this would be good or not.
 
2) Hmm... i would like to see the game take travel distance more into account with rewards, but not like it was a year or so ago where staring at SC could net you bazillions. I also think 4x would probably be too much. Perhaps in line with your number 3, make the acceleration faster, but make bodies have a bigger impact on "slowdown", so it actually is faster to get off the system plane if your target is some distance out to avoid going near bodies.
Im not talking about acceleration/deceleration. Im talking about the interaction of gravity waves (which every body has) to create variability in space that affects FSD propulsion...and like rough roads the faster you go the more it affects you. gives you an option - go slow and have an easy flight or go faster and have to interact more. It also rewards experienced players with faster travel but instills that "space is big" feeling on noobs so you really appreciate not having to do it as it gets tedious.
3) I think you are thinking of things backwards here? If we were doing slingshots then yes, that would make sense, although it would be a pain if the planet we needed was currently on the other side of the system. Its simply about avoidance, see my point 2. Get off the galactic plane and be happy.
gravity exists in a sphere, not just the orbital plane. again I'm not talking about today's acceleration/overshoot mechanics. I'm talking about the frameshift bubble being affected by gravity and gravity interference between bodies. it would affect control of your ship and could send you veeering off course, make it hard to steer, or destabilise the frameshift bubble complete and drop you into normal space.
..and yes you wouldn't just point and your destination pixel and zone out. maybe you have to fly in from the "top" of the orbital plane for a smoother ride.
maybe ship size affects how hard they are to control in SC as well...based on speed.

4) I can see this just being a giant pain in the rear end, that would end up with dozens of forum threads with people complaining about it, and i personally don't think it would be a good idea.
it very well could be if FDev "FDevs" it but it could also create new engaging space ship flying gameplay while allowing players to shorten their SC time.
As usual, i think there might be some comments along the lines of "give us something to do in SC", but the issue is, people don't want to do things in SC. They just want to get from A to B as quick as possible. There are signal sources to investigate, but the only time you investigate them is when you need or want to investigate them, not when travelling. Ultimately, people just want to get from A to B as quick as possible, which might sound like the simple solution is to make A to B travel instant, or damn near to it, but then, what does the dev do? Nerf A to B missions into the ground? What do they do about (NPC) piracy? And of course, it would ultimately annoy a lot of players that this giant space game would be reduced into a much smaller space game. Argue as you like as to whether this would be good or not.
I don't disagree. I tbink either we need SOMETHING to do in SC or just take it out completely.
 
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1) remove the arbitrary 2001C speed limit. It's cute, 2001 was a great movie, but Elite Dangerous is a great game and could be better.
2) increase the max acceleration rate in SC....nothing crazy maybe 4x of what it is now. It's just a guess and probably will need some fine-tuning.
3) this is the interesting part here - make us actually NAVIGATE in SC. There are gravity interactions between all the bodies, right? That's why they orbit each other. So...why not use those gravity interactions to create some kind of navigation mechanic where you have to fly through the various gravity interactions between bodies around you?
4) the faster you go, the more intense these gravity interactions become and the more skill is required to negotiate them and stay on course/not e-drop out of SC.
You may have read a lot of threads but you have understood very little I suspect.

1) will have no effect, there is no in-system trip where you can actually get to 2001c, so increasing it will make no difference

2) Obviously you thought of 1 in relation to 2, however the acceleration rate in SC is already enormous, you can go from 30kps to well over 1900c in 20 seconds, so that's not the limiting factor in SC travel.

3) You can already do that, I do it all the time, avoiding gravity wells and using them for braking and navigating around moons makes a huge difference to the amount of time it takes to travel around a system, just because you don't understand or bother to use the current mechanics doesn't mean they don't exist.

4) Gravity is gravity, the simulated gravity in ED is consistent and close enough to how it works in the real universe that it doesn't need changing to make it more gamey, save that for where it really makes a difference. Gravity doesn't increase as you travel faster, that even sounds silly. People already complain about the "slowdown" message when they hit a gravity well, I rarely see those at all, but your proposal would create a mountain of salt on the forums.
 

dxm55

Banned
Walking around your ship will be a one week novelty which will eventually wear off.

I'll take shorter SC times (ie less gravitational effects on), so I can achieve more within the limited gaming time typical non-neckbeard, non-forum-dad, working adults with RLs have.
 
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1) Agreed, unless there is some sort of technical reason, it could be done away with, although it will lessen the Hutton joke a little bit. Also, apparently at least one dev thought it was 2000, not 2001. Not sure if they were simply not in on the joke, or that they never meant it as a reference to 2001, someone just pulled 2000 out of thin air and the extra 1 is just a rounding error.
After doing an analysis of this personally, the 2001c limit is probably very close to the actual technical limit (in m/s terms) before mathematical errors start to become a concern. It is unlikely that any significant gains could be made by increasing this.

3) You can already do that, I do it all the time, avoiding gravity wells and using them for braking and navigating around moons makes a huge difference to the amount of time it takes to travel around a system, just because you don't understand or bother to use the current mechanics doesn't mean they don't exist.

4) Gravity is gravity, the simulated gravity in ED is consistent and close enough to how it works in the real universe that it doesn't need changing to make it more gamey, save that for where it really makes a difference. Gravity doesn't increase as you travel faster, that even sounds silly. People already complain about the "slowdown" message when they hit a gravity well, I rarely see those at all, but your proposal would create a mountain of salt on the forums.
Any FTL mechanic is not likely to adhere to Newtonian/Gravitational principles due to the fact that any such mechanic would require the manipulation of space-time in a ship local way. The current implementation limits the notional "safe"/"nominal" speed based on proximity to major gravitational fields which results in both speed caps and a form of enforced deceleration. From a lay-persons perspective, this may seem to be for Newtonian/Gravitational based reasons but if you look close enough at the mechanics it clearly is not. The only time that Newtonian/Gravitational principles really come into play is in normal flight, when in super-cruise we are talking about real world theoretical physics principles that allow for the manipulation of local space-time and side step the limitations of pure Newtonian type motion.

What the OP is referring to is clearly not "gravity increasing as you travel faster" but just the interactions between the ship drive and normal space. This is already implemented in a way but the OP seems to not fully understand either the mechanics they are actually proposing nor what is currently implemented.

As it currently stands, a degree of navigation in super cruise is already required in order to ensure optimal transit times and greater ship integrity damage is incurred if your super-cruise piloting breaches certain acceleration/deceleration limits. The current approach is both credible from a science perspective and fair/reasonable from a gameplay perspective - what the OP is proposing on the other hand is not IMO.
 
As it currently stands, a degree of navigation in super cruise is already required in order to ensure optimal transit times and greater ship integrity damage is incurred if your super-cruise piloting breaches certain acceleration/deceleration limits. The current approach is both credible from a science perspective and fair/reasonable from a gameplay perspective - what the OP is proposing on the other hand is not IMO.
Very well put, I agree entirely.

I am not sure exactly what the OP had in mind with this;

the faster you go, the more intense these gravity interactions become and the more skill is required to negotiate them and stay on course/not e-drop out of SC.
Apart from the fact it looks like another attempt to insert a mini-game in traveling as a method of decreasing the time spent traveling, something most players are against due to the fact that having to play a mini-game to get places would quickly become tiresome to everyone.

Due to the way SC works of necessity such a mechanic would require a change in the way gravity works in the game, the fact is we already have quite intense gravity interactions that affect SC as you so rightly point out, but these operate in a diametrically opposite way to what the OP is suggesting. I am for minor tweaks to SC if they are reasonable, don't break the current physics model used in the game and most of all don't involve some sort of mini-game!

Manouvering around the moons of a gas giant already requires a skill set that many players here just don't seem to know even exists and with auto-SC it's likely even fewer of them will master in the future since that seems to consist almost entirely of pointing your ship at something and activating auto-SC, I would find it hard to even imagine a less engaging mechanic. Oh well!
 
I am not sure exactly what the OP had in mind with this;…
I get the impression they expect the overall effect of FSD braking to trigger an FSD failure if certain limits are exceeded rather than simply slowing the ship down.

Apart from the fact it looks like another attempt to insert a mini-game in traveling as a method of decreasing the time spent traveling, something most players are against due to the fact that having to play a mini-game to get places would quickly become tiresome to everyone.
In general, agreed - it seems to me that they want super cruise to be turned into something akin to "riding the rapids" which is both nonsensical from a science perspective and heading too far towards making ED mini-game centric.

Due to the way SC works of necessity such a mechanic would require a change in the way gravity works in the game, the fact is we already have quite intense gravity interactions that affect SC as you so rightly point out, but these operate in a diametrically opposite way to what the OP is suggesting. I am for minor tweaks to SC if they are reasonable, don't break the current physics model used in the game and most of all don't involve some sort of mini-game!
In a way yes, but in a way no - the situation with super cruise and gravity wells is less about gravity and more about overall mass which is not the same thing. I believe you are right in that a complete rewrite of the SC mechanics would be required and IMO there is no justification to do so.

Manouvering around the moons of a gas giant already requires a skill set that many players here just don't seem to know even exists and with auto-SC it's likely even fewer of them will master in the future since that seems to consist almost entirely of pointing your ship at something and activating auto-SC, I would find it hard to even imagine a less engaging mechanic. Oh well!
In general, agreed - I think the fundamental issue is that many do not properly understand the mechanics we currently do have. That might be addressable though with the addition of suitable tutorials and/or codex entries.
 
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4) the faster you go, the more intense these gravity interactions become and the more skill is required to negotiate them and stay on course/not e-drop out of SC.


well....now's the part where 300 neckbeards tell me this idea is crap.

I'll take shorter SC times (ie less gravitational effects on), so I can achieve more within the limited gaming time typical non-neckbeard, non-forum-dad, working adults with RLs have.

So more intense these gravity interactions vs less gravitational effects on

Which of you is the neckbeard and which is the typical non-neckbeard, non-forum-dad, working adults with RL
 
.....sigh....arguing the made-up sci fi physics of FTL rather than looking at it as a video game mechanic. ok.

what Im proposing is a mechanic to allow players to shorten their SC time in exchange for more game interaction rather than just asking that a huge waste of time be eliminated from the game outright which is not likely to happen. How it's justified through physics, lore, or copius amounts of handwavium is completely irrelevant.

I don't really care how this particular video game developer explains FTL travel. Im saying make it fun and engaging and shorter or just stop wasting my time and remove it.
 

dxm55

Banned
Yep. This is a game to me. I rather spend time doing the juicy, meaty stuff.
Shoot, fight, mine, load/unload cargo, earn credits.

Anything but commute. I already do that to and from work everyday.
 
More could indeed be done to make supercruise more exciting. But, as you probably already know as the only non-neckbeard on this forum, all of those things will just make SC slower for those who don't have the skillz.

I also wonder why you think travelling is a waste of time in a game about space travel.

:D S
 
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