Powerplay Proposal of a chart for the support to Open mode in Powerplay
- Thread starter CMDR John Casey
- Start date
While I understand that some folks only join Power Play for the rewards (so Sandros failed idea would have been fine for them), some join for the purpose of advancing the power and not personal gain.
So what they contribute towards that power being messed with - purely on the basis that someone else used another mode - is sickening.
So the argument that open play has more risk as an excuse for more reward is a flawed argument - thank you for highlighting it.
And it has been debated, to length.
4 mega threads on it - and yet some of us are still waiting to see why open "deserves" more rewards.
Don't help when some open players moan open is void of all human players... then moan open needs better rewards because of "risk".... what risk?
it's empty of others players apparently, so where is this extra risk coming from?
Actually, my personal biggest concern is the unfair treatment of other players - seeing one group of players get more, just because of their choice mode - reeks of "class distinction" - something I dislike about British culture.
And as the game is British made, there is a lot of British culture within it - including the "class divide". Which is even more prevalent from those saying the open mode class, "deserve" more - despite paying the same for the game as everyone else did.
One mans hero, is another mans villain.
Or to put it another way, one mans buff - is another mans nerf.
Let's say, for example Sandros forgotten idea was brought in.....
I'd leave Cubeo in open mode and drop 100 leaflets elsewhere, I'd give 100 leaflets of contributions - that's fine, that is what I signed up to do.
Yet in Solo mode; I leave Cubeo and drop 100 leaflets elsewhere, I'd give 50 leaflets of contributions - so I get half, for the same work !!??
In both trips - I see no one, I meet no one, I get shot at zero times.......
How is this fair to the solo player?
They do the same work, meet the same people (zero) and have the same risk (none).
Yet the solo player contributes less of a reward, doing exactly the same as an Open player did.
You honestly think that's right? That this is fair?
Same work, less contributions?
Just to complicate things by the way, I have just double checked this, but it seems Powerplay is completely shared across Mac, PC, and XBox One. So if someone does something on XBox, the results can be witnessed on PC. And XBox players are few and far between on the forums and discord even for powerplay.
Don't get me wrong - there are plenty of players doing PP on XBox, they just don't generally interact with other PP'ers, and are only in the faction/power for the weapons and rank, nothing else. Once they have them, they quit if they can. XBox is almost pure PvP in open, so the PvE players like myself are nearly always in PG (MobiusX EU) or solo.
Don't get me wrong - there are plenty of players doing PP on XBox, they just don't generally interact with other PP'ers, and are only in the faction/power for the weapons and rank, nothing else. Once they have them, they quit if they can. XBox is almost pure PvP in open, so the PvE players like myself are nearly always in PG (MobiusX EU) or solo.
Alternatively some of us realise that we're already playing the game with a significant disadvantage and don't feel a need for that to be made even bigger. But hey - don't let anything as subtle and nuanced as strategic analysis get in the way of your heroic brave face.
I did not have the impression this is a discussion thread. This is about certeain groups and individuals expressing theire intention to play power-play in open exclusively. There can not be anything wrong with this. It's not as anyone can be forced to play the game a certain way - and this is not the intention of anyone as far as I read it here.
As much as Mobius has his group and has his rule of "no pvp" inside his group, there a certain powerplay groups that would like to see theire members play in open. If someone doesn't want to play in open he does not have to join this group. If someone wants a lot of pvp-combat he better not join Mobius. Easy thing. I don't think that those individuals who signed theire opinion here would go so far to forbid theire members solo- or pg-play. The wording was that open-play was encouraged in theire groups. Same goes for me. I signed that: I, personally will play in open whenever I participate in powerplay actions - and as part of my small group-responsibilty for powerplay-organisation, I will exactly do this: encourage old and new members who are interested in powerplay to paly it in open. And I add my simpel reasoning to it: becouse I don't play powerplay for winning it (if such a thing is even possible) but to have fun in an open environement where commanders of different powers can challange each other in open pvp as possible gameplay feature to enjoy and to have some "meaning and context" added to those combat focused player encounters we are enjoying from time to time.
Thank you for respecting this opinion.
As much as Mobius has his group and has his rule of "no pvp" inside his group, there a certain powerplay groups that would like to see theire members play in open. If someone doesn't want to play in open he does not have to join this group. If someone wants a lot of pvp-combat he better not join Mobius. Easy thing. I don't think that those individuals who signed theire opinion here would go so far to forbid theire members solo- or pg-play. The wording was that open-play was encouraged in theire groups. Same goes for me. I signed that: I, personally will play in open whenever I participate in powerplay actions - and as part of my small group-responsibilty for powerplay-organisation, I will exactly do this: encourage old and new members who are interested in powerplay to paly it in open. And I add my simpel reasoning to it: becouse I don't play powerplay for winning it (if such a thing is even possible) but to have fun in an open environement where commanders of different powers can challange each other in open pvp as possible gameplay feature to enjoy and to have some "meaning and context" added to those combat focused player encounters we are enjoying from time to time.
Thank you for respecting this opinion.
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Thanks Arkadi, finally someone who understands the spirit of my proposal. It's not a matter of giving more weight to a mode than another. It is not a matter of strategies to "win" Powerplay. It's rather a matter of preserving some enjoyable features of the game and not let them die.
My concerns are two: the first, to preserve PvP interactions that create stories, and therefore content. They can exist only if all involved people play in open. If everybody stays in solo or private they just can't happen. And if some groups have a policy to stay in solo or private, while others don't, they are denying the possibility to some of the open-fostering groups to have the same interactions. For instance, Hudson will never be able to award a medal to someone for thwarting an undermining attempt by Grom, while our open um policy makes our wing content for the others. Why should we create content for the others if this is not reciprocal?
Second, I defend Powerplay as the place to do PvP "with a purpose". FD didn't give us a PvP mode, or worse they created a PvP mode, Arena, where PvP has no meaning at all. Powerplay would be an ideal place for PvP because it would happen with a purpose: denying expansions, stopping undermining, attacking supply lines, etc.
Instead of CGs, where PvP happens mostly because "it's a place full of people", Powerplay would be a place where PvP has a meaning.
We can make Powerplay the place to be for PvP, but not if the groups don't agree. Given the answers I see here and the Grom policies about private groups, I can see that this idea is going to die, and with it all the possible stories we could have written together. The only things that will remain are spreadsheets and a coloured map.
The thought police unfortunately doesn't help by destroying preemptively any discussion just because it starts with "I support open". Yes, "I support open and I'd like it to be a better place". Is there anything wrong in this? I don't think so.
Sigh. Yet another "I'm better than thou" thread. Some people never give up starting them.
I'll be playing in Solo, as that's how I've played the game since the Beta. I don't care what you think, and I don't care what mode you play. I just voice my opinion here hoping that Frontier will stick to their stated policy that all game modes are equal.
PP is a PvE race: which side is better at moving some tokens around, wins. I like to compare it with athletics: Tackling is not allowed during the 100 meter sprint at the Olympics, is it? And still it is the highest regarded race of the Olympic Games.
Let me lob a hand-grenade back: If you want an equal playing field, let's start with reducing merits earned in wings. The merits per hour reported by wings are impossible to achieve in Solo. It's just not possible to intercept ships that often - they don't spawn fast enough.
I'll be playing in Solo, as that's how I've played the game since the Beta. I don't care what you think, and I don't care what mode you play. I just voice my opinion here hoping that Frontier will stick to their stated policy that all game modes are equal.
PP is a PvE race: which side is better at moving some tokens around, wins. I like to compare it with athletics: Tackling is not allowed during the 100 meter sprint at the Olympics, is it? And still it is the highest regarded race of the Olympic Games.
Let me lob a hand-grenade back: If you want an equal playing field, let's start with reducing merits earned in wings. The merits per hour reported by wings are impossible to achieve in Solo. It's just not possible to intercept ships that often - they don't spawn fast enough.
Sigh. Another post of the series "I don't read what you wrote, but since you like Open, you are wrong".
Since people here seem to stop at the first lines of my post, let's put this clear: this is not a proposal to force people in open, this is a proposal to make the groups who steer the powers to foster participation in open. You don't like open? Very well, play Powerplay in the mode you want but don't engage with such groups.
I don't know how to put this clearer.
I don't know how to put this clearer.
That is up to the groups and people who play it. And you're absoloutely right, it wouldn't force people to play in Open. I guess most people who don't already play in open, who are not in PP for selfish reasons, would simply drop it. If your contributions are not going to be treated equally, then you're probably not going to bother playing right?
So Cmdrs like myself who would like to play in open more but cannot due to poor internet connections would be punished further relative to those with good connections? Not only are we deprived of open, our contributions would be lesser.
Also add in every other aspect of the interminable open/solo debate:
Instancing
Time Zones
Limited amount of time required in supercruise to fortify.
The vast spread of systems and low chances of operating in the same systems.
Also add in every other aspect of the interminable open/solo debate:
Instancing
Time Zones
Limited amount of time required in supercruise to fortify.
The vast spread of systems and low chances of operating in the same systems.
OPs post was about a possible agreement between the major powerplay groups (on Reddit, Inara, Discord) to encourage open play within theire ranks. There was absolutly no intention to fundamentally change the mechanics of powerplay. The intention of OP was to reach a diplomatic agreement.
That's all about it. Nothing more, nothing less.
All the posts writing about Sandros "handgrande" idea from a year ago have been discussed in other threads already. Chances that FDev will make any changes to powerplay any time soon are nearly non-existent. So this is the reason why this thread was started, I believe I can speak in the name of OP, to try to find a gentlemans agreement between the major player-groups in powerplay. But it seems even this is not a thing to be easyly agreed upon and people tend to derail and misinterprete OPs intentions...
I believe most of us here know that Elite Dangerous does not feature a full-fledged server-farm backed multiplayer environment. But open-play works well enough for most to have a lot of player encouters in populated areas. Powerplay is a good back-bone for generating hotspots where commanders can meet in open instances and paly the game with each other (and also conflicting each other). This is enough of a reason for some commanders to actually play in open...
That's all about it. Nothing more, nothing less.
All the posts writing about Sandros "handgrande" idea from a year ago have been discussed in other threads already. Chances that FDev will make any changes to powerplay any time soon are nearly non-existent. So this is the reason why this thread was started, I believe I can speak in the name of OP, to try to find a gentlemans agreement between the major player-groups in powerplay. But it seems even this is not a thing to be easyly agreed upon and people tend to derail and misinterprete OPs intentions...
I believe most of us here know that Elite Dangerous does not feature a full-fledged server-farm backed multiplayer environment. But open-play works well enough for most to have a lot of player encouters in populated areas. Powerplay is a good back-bone for generating hotspots where commanders can meet in open instances and paly the game with each other (and also conflicting each other). This is enough of a reason for some commanders to actually play in open...
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After coffee this morning I see you are correct, I must apologise for rehashing old arguments.
That said these 4 points from the open/solo debate would seem to minimize the chances of success of any such agreement.
Instancing
Time Zones
Limited amount of time required in supercruise to fortify.
The vast spread of systems and low chances of operating in the same systems.
Right on. Coffee time : )
Still I disagree. I added a paragraph to my post above.
From my experience powerplay generates hotspots, where many commanders operat in the same system. Those hotspots usually are Powerplay HQs, expansions and the most valuable systems that see regular undermining and fortification.
I see pilots in open quite often in such places. I even met EG pilots in open at theire expansion and had a nice chat (although it's said most EG pilot only operate in private groups)...
So I don't see where networking, timezones or such is a reason not to play in open. Chances to meet other commanders are by far not so rare if you are looking for the most frequented systems and the hotspots of powerplay actions.
Of course it is not as save to fortify or undermine in open as it would be to do it in a private group or solo. No one can force anyone to a playstyle - everyone knows that. But we can try to encourage those people we play with to try it and give open play a chance.
edit: and of course chances to meet players in open are higher if you play in Asian/American/Eurpopean prime-time on weekends in the evening / night-hours and you are better off with a working internet connection. This is the same for all online games.
Still I disagree. I added a paragraph to my post above.
From my experience powerplay generates hotspots, where many commanders operat in the same system. Those hotspots usually are Powerplay HQs, expansions and the most valuable systems that see regular undermining and fortification.
I see pilots in open quite often in such places. I even met EG pilots in open at theire expansion and had a nice chat (although it's said most EG pilot only operate in private groups)...
So I don't see where networking, timezones or such is a reason not to play in open. Chances to meet other commanders are by far not so rare if you are looking for the most frequented systems and the hotspots of powerplay actions.
Of course it is not as save to fortify or undermine in open as it would be to do it in a private group or solo. No one can force anyone to a playstyle - everyone knows that. But we can try to encourage those people we play with to try it and give open play a chance.
edit: and of course chances to meet players in open are higher if you play in Asian/American/Eurpopean prime-time on weekends in the evening / night-hours and you are better off with a working internet connection. This is the same for all online games.
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Disadvantage?? the only disadvantage one has in powerplay is lack of courage to fight for your ideals
Perhaps hiding behind mama's skirt is more appealing to the likes of Alliance players
but hey dont change your ways if skirts are your thing lol
Of course not. Because there's absolutely no disadvantage to having a merit bottleneck if PowerPlay is forced into open. It's not like risking a rebuy and 8 million credits worth of fast tracked merits is a disadvantage when other powers only risk their rebuy at their bottlenecks. It's not like wasting 8 million credits worth of fast tracked fortification merits is a disadvantage, when other powers only risk wasting 10,000 credits.
Are you sure you want to get into a discussion on the advantages and disadvantages faced by the mechanics available to each power and how they will be affected if PowerPlay was forced into open exclusively without changing those mechanics?
My comments were Banter trying to play on that lion instinct and pride... but alas the clever mouse replies
Theres no swaying Alliance to play in the Jungle
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It's not a matter of it being fun or not, it's a matter of the game being fair to all participants. In the current set of mechanics you'd end up with some powers being impossible to properly blockade, up to the point that you cannot properly blockade any Federation power (they are both outbound fortifiers), whereas other powers can be effectively blockaded.
Sure, the 3 on 1 war between Delaine and the Empire was fun, but wouldn't it have been even more fun, if you could effectively blockade your opponents' head quarters and do as much damage to them as they can do to you?
Me, I am a huge proponent of fairness - that's why open only is moronic with the current mechanics.