Powerplay Proposal of a chart for the support to Open mode in Powerplay

[CMDR John Casey]

I know, it makes me laugh that the OP can scream and shout his open mode is best and people should play it, then gets upset when a some folks don't agree.

\sigh.
It's not me, it's Sandro. Do you know what a quote is, or do you think that *in this post* I'm saying "I know, it makes me laugh that the OP can scream and shout his open mode is best and people should play it, then gets upset when a some folks don't agree."?

My goodness

 

[Carradin]

One possible solution about the accusations groups throw one to each other would be to colour the undermining bars with the colours of the powers that did that undermining. It will help in many of these (I have to concede, fruitless and silly) conversation about who did what.

That seems an excellent idea to me. Always felt there was a lack of information. If they could do this, and maybe even add some news reports to stations in-system which go something along the lines of "In the last few days, many pilots have reported interdictions by ships known to be affiliated with <insert power here>. All pilots are advised to take extra precautions until the situation calms down", it would at least give powers the ability to tell who attacked them, and in which mode. So no more attacking each other anonymously.

 

[Jockey79]

The easy mode is a reference to Sando saying 'open players have a tougher time' further up in the thread, not an insult. It shows your mindset that you read it that way, nothing of mine.

Actually, "easy mode" has been a forum insult for a lot longer. Even the Mod team had to step in long before Sandro said anything. Go read the mode mega threads and you'll see the mod team had to tell people to stop it.
Just like "forum dad" and accusations of "hiding in solo" have always been insults here - both of which are also in this thread.

If my reason is invalidated by getting help from players, does that mean that there's no problem with griefing since they can get help from skillful players?

Explain what you think "griefing" is in Elite Dangerous. Because so many get piracy mixed up with "griefing" it's hard to tell what someone is actually talking about.

\sigh.
It's not me, it's Sandro. Do you know what a quote is, or do you think that *in this post* I'm saying "I know, it makes me laugh that the OP can scream and shout his open mode is best and people should play it, then gets upset when a some folks don't agree."?

My goodness

Yes I do know what a quote - here is one;

I completely agree with Sandro on this point, playing in Open makes the game the best it can be for all involved.

So my point stands, as IT IS YOU who said Open makes the game the best it can be, not Sandro.
Do you not read your own posts ? You've said everything myself and Robert have countered - need me to post your entire post colour coded for you?
So you know what YOU wrote ? and what belongs to Sandro.

 

[withnail]

The OP introduced the game modes into this topic at the start of the thread, indeed the whole premise of the OP is that Powerplay is "best" played in one of the three available modes.

Not everyone's going to agree with that opinion....

I think you've been derailing this thread all along. Whether you like it or not.

 

[CMDR John Casey]

So my point stands, as IT IS YOU who said Open makes the game the best it can be, not Sandro.

That's ridiculous. You're saying that because I backed and quoted exactly what Sandro said, it's something that I said but "not Sandro".

Robert Maynard didn't counter anything at all. He just reported, again, Sandro's words ("I just want to reiterate that was just me musing, we're not going to do that at the moment, there are no plans to do it"), which doesn't mean he didn't mean what he said before, just that they're not going to implement it.

So don't worry, as I said in my original post I respect people to play in the way they want. Even when they lack politeness and they're being deceitful.

 

[CMDR Adelind]

Actually, "easy mode" has been a forum insult for a lot longer. Even the Mod team had to step in long before Sandro said anything. Go read the mode mega threads and you'll see the mod team had to tell people to stop it.
Just like "forum dad" and accusations of "hiding in solo" have always been insults here - both of which are also in this thread.



Explain what you think "griefing" is in Elite Dangerous. Because so many get piracy mixed up with "griefing" it's hard to tell what someone is actually talking about.

Fair enough, but I'm not insulting, or particularly interested in other's conversations unless they apply to the topic.

I consider griefing to be repeatedly killing new or unskilled players for no discernible gameplay or RP reason. For the lulz. Forcing a log out or Freewinder. Forcing a rebuy or repledge.

So if there is a problem with it being too easy for some players to cost other players too much through griefing, is it fair for 5c to cost me personally over a billion in a couple months? The Empire as a whole must have near a trillion just to mititate that damage (edit: hang on, mixed up my numbers, early morning, a bit over a half billion at least)(uh, mixed up twice, over half a trillion). It can only be done in PG. Or several coordinated wings to 4-man the same CZ in different dimensions, while others have to wait for spawns and deal with skilled attackers?

 

[CMDR John Casey]

I think you've been derailing this thread all along. Whether you like it or not.

Frankly I feel like I tried to stand up and say something but two guys came and made me shut up and walk back into the ranks.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Frankly I feel like I tried to stand up and say something but two guys came and made me walk back into the ranks.

This is not the first time that a proposal has been made that around the opinion that Powerplay should be Open only or should receive a bonus for being played in Open.

The reason it keeps coming up is that Frontier have not changed an aspect of their game (that has been implemented in all three game modes) to suit a subset (players that choose to engage in PvP) of a subset (players that engage in Powerplay) of the player-base.

 

[Snaplord]

This is not the first time that a proposal has been made that around the opinion that Powerplay should be Open only or should receive a bonus for being played in Open.

The reason it keeps coming up is that Frontier have not changed an aspect of their game (that has been implemented in all three game modes) to suit a subset (players that are PvP-tolerant) of a subset (players that engage in Powerplay) of the player-base.

Except this thread didn't ask for that. The OP suggested an agreement amongst the PP commands to promote open play. That's all. Stop derailing this thread with your intolerance of open play.

 

[CMDR Adelind]

This is not the first time that a proposal has been made that around the opinion that Powerplay should be Open only or should receive a bonus for being played in Open.

The reason it keeps coming up is that Frontier have not changed an aspect of their game (that has been implemented in all three game modes) to suit a subset (players that choose to engage in PvP) of a subset (players that engage in Powerplay) of the player-base.

Whether it's the first time isn't really important, considering the deluge of new recruits lately, he's trying to foster a spirit in the organised PP communities with a proposal for a mutual agreement.

 

[CMDR John Casey]

Except this thread didn't ask for that. The OP suggested an agreement amongst the PP commands to promote open play. That's all. Stop derailing this thread with your intolerance of open play.

Thanks for your support. But I think that it's too late. It already became "one of that open vs. solo threads" again. Or "who said what and why".

 

[Robert Maynard]

Except this thread didn't ask for that. The OP suggested an agreement amongst the PP commands to promote open play. That's all. Stop derailing this thread with your intolerance of open play.

I am not intolerant of Open play. It's there for everyone who chooses to play in it.

I am intolerant of proposed changes that seek to gate content arbitrarily to one of the three game modes, attempt to coerce players into playing in a particular way or propose a blanket bonus for playing in one mode (with added risk as the justification but no quantum in relation to that added risk).

 

[CMDR Adelind]

I am not intolerant of Open play. It's there for everyone who chooses to play in it.

I am intolerant of proposed changes that seek to gate content arbitrarily to one of the three game modes, attempt to coerce players into playing in a particular way or propose a blanket bonus for playing in one mode (with added risk as the justification but no quantum in relation to that added risk).

You also misunderstand. The player collecting merits in Open does not get the bonus, the community does, including the solo and PG players.

Edit: It can be measured by the difference in average merits per hour, weighted for rank etc.

 

[SHEPR0N]

Thanks for your support. But I think that it's too late. It already became "one of that open vs. solo threads" again. Or "who said what and why".

For some reason threads on the Frontier Forums about this have a nasty tendency to end that way. Even Sandro's thread with a bunch of PP related proposals and just including his "grenade" as a bonus topic went down that road

 

[Robert Maynard]

It already became "one of that open vs. solo threads" again.

Arguably it was that from the start:

But I couldn't accept that a player group involved in Powerplay may adopt a solo-only or PG-only policy for all of their activities and members. I think that it is opposed to the spirit of Powerplay and, as Sandro said, it is not making the best it can be for all involved.

 

[Snaplord]

You know a forum is bad when a moderator intentionally and continually derails a thread.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You also misunderstand. The player collecting merits in Open does not get the bonus, the community does, including the solo and PG players.

I'm aware of how Sandro mused about applying such a bonus. However the devil's in the detail - if the bonus applied regardless of whether a player was actually opposed then, in my opinion, it would be ill applied as the player would not have actually experienced any additional risk.

Depending on the magnitude of the bonus (to the Power) and the opportunities for opposing players from particular Powers, such a bonus may well favour particular Powers whose player supporters prefer Open play (rather than balance the losses incurred in Open, which would seem to be Sandro's original intent).

 

[Robert Maynard]

You know a forum is bad when a moderator intentionally and continually derails a thread.

Moderators don't Moderate threads that they participate in - and when participating enjoy the same privilege of expressing opinions just the same as any other forum user.

 

[CMDR John Casey]

Arguably it was that from the start:

As others tried to explain in my place, this is not what my post was about, that's about my motivations.
In any case, given that we are where we are, what exactly are you criticising of what I said by saying:

But I couldn't accept that a player group involved in Powerplay may adopt a solo-only or PG-only policy

I'm curious.

 

[CMDR Adelind]

I'm aware of how Sandro mused about applying such a bonus. However the devil's in the detail - if the bonus applied regardless of whether a player was actually opposed then, in my opinion, it would be ill applied as the player would not have actually experienced any additional risk.

Depending on the magnitude of the bonus (to the Power) and the opportunities for opposing players from particular Powers, such a bonus may well favour particular Powers whose player supporters prefer Open play (rather than balance the losses incurred in Open, which would seem to be Sandro's original intent).

Maybe. The details are for the devs to work out, that's what we pay 'em for. Maybe different open bonuses for different powers, I don't really care. But sinking billions into defending against people who explain to you that they are specifically exploiting the advantages that a PG gives them to destroy part of the game is quite disheartening, so I think I know precisely how the Hudson folk feel watching their work unravel, because the merits one can get in a PG outweight that in open. I know, because I've used them for exactly that reason, and it was poo-ey (censor). One particular day we were able to increase our merit count by 4-fold because of PGs, because it gave us quadruple the opportunities to get merits.