Props to Arthur and *Today's* Supercruise

[Dextio]

Ok, so...generally, I am very critical of the CM team. They are all great people; but it is also the community team, and I do tend to get frustrated when I see radio silence/corporate talk from them when people are posting legitimate concerns.

Generally, I tune out/ignore supercruise news, as I see it being more of a marketing/PR thing, but after reading that Arthur was being honest and saying straight up there weren't plans for ship interiors, I decided to tune in after the fact...because straight up honesty is a different approach for Frontier.

And I'm actually impressed...particularly with the dramatically different tone and honesty coming out of Arthur (who I tend to be most critical of).

In particular, I appreciated the straight up communication re:
1. Ship Interiors: It's not happening anytime soon
2. The Roadmap: This is why it was done this way; listing all fixes is too much; testing occurs until the very last moment and things can happen
3. Performance Issues: This is difficult (which is understandable, it is difficult)
4. Launch problems: We wouldn't have pushed the button had we known these problems would occur
5. Console Launch Estimate: Milestones shift, but I'll try to get an estimate
6. Lighting Issues: Game is too dark; people are looking at it
7. Increased CM activity will be in the forums (although Zac said this)

There's actually even more than this, surprisingly.

But yeah, overall: Props where props is due. It's not easy talking honestly and transparently when so many people are upset with you and the people you work for.

Respect. Well done.

More.

 

[Ydiss]

2. The Roadmap: This is why it was done this way; listing all fixes is too much; testing occurs until the very last moment and things can happen

I said exactly that several times but no one cares. At least you do, though.

I think people expected fdev to plan to work on fixing issues for several months or something, whilst abandoning both the console players and those who want the versions merged so there's no more mass segregation.

 

[Revan2610]

Yeah hats off to Arthur for sure - I don't watch the streams usually but he came across sincere and really wanting to make a difference - time will tell of course as it isn't the first time we have heard FDev say "Yeah we'll get better at comms" and then it falls off a cliff 6 weeks later.

That said, I appreciated the honesty and transparency which I don't think we have seen from FDev before, so nice one Arthur!

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

It's nice to see another new era of communications.

Here's hoping.

 

[Threeofseven]

Number 4. cannot be accurate. There is no way they didn’t know there were still major issues.

I’m not criticizing them, I’m still enjoying odyssey and prefer that it was released earlier even with all the problems it has because I know they will get them sorted out. However, there’s no way they didn’t know.

 

[Dextio]

Number 4. cannot be accurate. There is no way they didn’t know there were still major issues.

I’m not criticizing them, I’m still enjoying odyssey and prefer that it was released earlier even with all the problems it has because I know they will get them sorted out. However, there’s no way they didn’t know.

Hmm...I don't know. I would normally agree with you...but maybe I'm wrong? I don't know...I'm confused now.

But yeah, I guess I can see that they might have their environments off. Perhaps they have no environment that can adequately mirror prod (e.g. a "staging" environment), so they're running into these issues only in production.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

But yeah, I guess I can see that they might have their environments off. Perhaps they have no environment that can adequately mirror prod (e.g. a "staging" environment), so they're running into these issues only in prproduction.

We tested server load with two clients and it worked fine

 

[Dextio]

We tested server load with two clients and it worked fine

Yeah, I have no idea. I'd hope they'd have more ;-). But yeah, I guess I can see them not being able to see these issues...particularly if they don't have suitable test environments.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Yeah, I have no idea. I'd hope they'd have more ;-). But yeah, I guess I can see them not being able to see these issue...particularly if they don't have suitable test environments.

The sheer number of bugs they fixed in the first week shows they knew it wasn't polished when they released it. There's no way some of those weren't already in a branch when they cut the release version.

 

[Dextio]

The sheer number of bugs they fixed in the first week shows they knew it wasn't polished when they released it. There's no way some of those weren't already in a branch when they cut the release version.

Yeah, I can certainly see them knowing about the Alpha bugs, in the very least. Which is actually a lot. But I can see the networking/server load issues going by the wayside. Perhaps they thought performance issues would be resolved after Alpha (maybe a tweak or two), but surprise, it wasn't.

 

[Threeofseven]

Hmm...I don't know. I would normally agree with you...but maybe I'm wrong? I don't know...I'm confused now.

But yeah, I guess I can see that they might have their environments off. Perhaps they have no environment that can adequately mirror prod (e.g. a "staging" environment), so they're running into these issues only in production.

There are just too many issues that were reported in Alpha that were not fixed. Also a million little things like Federal starport menus showing imperial logos, the starfield having no color and stellar lighting effects have been switched off etc.

 

[Dextio]

There are just too many issues that were reported in Alpha that were not fixed. Also a million little things like Federal starport menus showing imperial logos, the starfield having no color and stellar lighting effects have been switched off etc.

Yeah, they certainly knew that the Alpha bugs existed; or were at minimum, at risk of not being fixed. I just...don't know the extent of what they knew. Regardless, they took a risk, they failed, and at least some of them (from what I can see, Arthur and maybe Zac) are trying to communicate/do better. We'll see if they continue to do so.

 

[WILLIAM BILL ADAMA]

But yeah, overall: Props where props is due. It's not easy talking honestly and transparently when so many people are upset with you and the people you work for.

No, if customers don't shout out, companies don't listen. Truthly-upset customers silently leave without yelling and reporting so many "ISSUES".

And if he thought Odyssey had no launch-problems, that is clear evidence there is no internal beta-test before launching. I saw so many big and small bugs at mostly-every conners of game and reported issuess again and again from moment of launching. I think he is one of poor liar. Poor? Becaue he has job of CM in Frontier at Odyssey release, but still liar.

 

[fourrunes]

Most we already know. 4 is false.

 

[Dextio]

Most we already know. 4 is false.

I know we know it, but hearing them admit it is at least a good step.

Regarding #4, I absolutely think they knew some of the issues existed, but maybe not some others. Maybe they thought those existing issues were small enough/quick fixes s.t. release shouldn't be delayed. They were obviously wrong, but...I guess I can see taking a risk and failing utterly. I wasn't in their shoes (thank god), but speaking as someone who has brought down an international business for a couple of hours due to a faulty deployment...I guess I get it (at least 1 time).

 

[JSteel]

Agree with the OP.

Hearing the Community Managers speak so frankly and acknowledge the issues, goes a long way.

Earned my respect, and I'm looking forward to the journey as this gets solved.

 

[Dextio]

Interesting, so I gave it another listen. And, at least from what I can tell(?), they merged their Alpha code directly into their production branch. This...correct me if I'm wrong...sounds extremely messy, as there might be merge conflicts/other issues...which you do not want to deal with in production. It'd have been way better to settle all of that in a lower environment (staging or lower) and promote it to another tested prod environment, s.t. when it came time, it'd just be switching to that merged/tested environment. I see...that's why they weren't concerned with alpha...those issues might have been sorted/verified, but they have a completely mucked up merge/deployment process. Ugh. That sucks...you guys....oh man...get some devops mojo going :-/


Edit: this is independent of the improved comms, but certainly makes point #4 more believable

bliki: Blue Green Deployment

Blue-green deployment allows you to upgrade production software without downtime. You deploy the new version into a copy of the production environment and change routing to switch.

martinfowler.com

 

[Pigletslastand]

It was a good showing today and an Improvement for definite but as someone said..it's all just words until the actions back it up. I am not convinced about them not knowing because they still went from Alpha to release in two weeks without a Beta but I will happily say all is forgiven if they turn this baby back around. Good show by Arf today. We'll see how it pans out.

 

[Valorin]

Watched the stream yesterday with half an eye and half an ear, and suddenly Arthur starts throwing facts at me and didn't stop. Oo
Amazing!

 

[Mr T]

I agree, it was great to see Arthur again, as he seems to have been missing from the spotlight for a while (or is that just me?), and what he had to say was very well said.