Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is.

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D
If the motherboard has a chipset from one of the big companies (intel, amd, nvidia, via, etc), you don't generally need to worry about it - they usually work with the big distros to get their drivers into the latest kernel and with MS to get them into windows update.

With Linux I don't see any issues.
But if there'll be i.e. Win7 Motherboard drivers for the AMD Chipsets if that very company agreed with MicroSoft to limit CPU/Driver support of the entire platform to Win10? Dunno, I'm doubtful. Still hopeful by doubtful.

Either way, we'll soon find out.
 
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With Linux I don't see any issues.
But if there'll be i.e. Win7 Motherboard drivers for the AMD Chipsets if that very company agreed with MicroSoft to limit CPU/Driver support of the entire platform to Win10? Dunno, I'm doubtful. Still hopeful by doubtful.

Either way, we'll soon find out.

That's one part of this that I don't get - Microsoft doesn't update Win7 any more. How exactly are they going to prevent anyone from using that CPU? Also, there is no way for a CPU to know what OS it's running under - it just executes very basic instructions like read this byte from memory, add this integer to that one. Any kind of blocking would need to be the other way around, the OS detects the CPU and refuses to run (which does happen, windows 10 will not run on a 486 because it needs instructions that have been added on later CPUs).
 
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I do agree that this entire topic re "security" is about control.

But, consider what statement we are making to ourselves, the effective inner mind communication when we act from fear ?

When we act from fear, all control is lost.

This entire NSA and data collection thing and the fear it has caused has been fed to the masses like gmo corn to cows----i wonder why

Fear based actions.... Major negative impact physically and especially nonphysically. Fear is the great cattle proder.
 
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I'm going to be investing in a new gaming rig when the new RyZen CPU's come out. Those new AMD CPU's only support Win 10 and Linux by design. I can't stand Win10 and feel Microsoft is committing an atrocious invasion of privacy on anyone who buys or uses that OS. I also think this will only get worse over time. So I'm not playing that game and I'll be getting a Linux OS on the new machine.

The game I want to play is Elite: Dangerous and I'd like to see a Linux launcher and client developed for it. During the original kickstarter for E: D, the stretch goal for a Mac client (Based on BSD UNIX) was £150,000 over the main goal of 1.25 million Pounds. This sounds reasonable to me and as the PS4 runs Orbis OS (a derivative of FreeBSD Linux) then I'd say we're already very close to having a Linux client that can support VR and all future expansions on a real gaming rig.

I'll even go further and if Frontier commits to either a Kickstarter (or internally funded project) to develop a Linux game client, I'll publicly vow to spend £500 toward that goal. I'd encourage them to embrace the Vulkan API as the core of this project as well.

Until I can play E: D on Linux, I'll be keeping my old Win 7 machine for just that. I'm hoping it will not be long before I can drop Windows completely.

If there is anyone else out there who would like to support this as well, please speak up. Cheers.

It's not only Ryzen that's affected by this, all new Intel chips are also Windows 10+ only supported. It's been written into the Microsoft EULA, contracts etc as they want to bury everything from 7 to 8.1. It does not mean that the Ryzen chips won't run earlier OS's, just that features won't be supported & that those OS's might be more unstable than they used to be.
 
Ryzen and all new processors will run just fine on older windows - right down to Windows for workgroups - just extra stuff , TPM and the like won't be supported (no loss).
Also trivial to make Win 10 look and act like previous builds and strip out anything you don't want.
Haven't tried Elite on Linux, but have a dig around on the forums - usually some way to get anything windows based to run under wine.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3112...e-zen-chips-will-support-only-windows-10.html
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/02/windows_intel_kaby_lake_amd_zen/
https://www.techpowerup.com/225502/amd-zen-and-intel-kaby-lake-will-only-support-windows-10-and-nix
http://hothardware.com/news/microsoft-to-optimize-windows-10-for-kaby-lake-and-zen
http://www.techeye.net/chips/why-kaby-lake-and-zen-is-windows-10-only

What happens when you try to run Kaby Lake (Also, Win 10 exclusive) on Win 8.1.

https://youtu.be/3yXD8BpJMsI

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I do agree that this entire topic re "security" is about control.
This topic is supposed to be about a Linux client for Elite.
ShimEnki;5078773This entire NSA and data collection thing and the fear it has caused has been fed to the masses like gmo corn to cows----i wonder why[/QUOTE said:
Because it's true.
 
Mac is roughly 10% of the market and it isn't enough for frontier to seriously support, lack of Horizons.

I very much doubt 1% of the market Linux make up is going to be enough for frontier dedicate developers to maintain that branch.

I don't see Frontier committing to DX12 or Vulkan until the market shakes itself out and both APIs are a lot further along.
 
Mac is roughly 10% of the market and it isn't enough for frontier to seriously support, lack of Horizons.

I very much doubt 1% of the market Linux make up is going to be enough for frontier dedicate developers to maintain that branch.

I don't see Frontier committing to DX12 or Vulkan until the market shakes itself out and both APIs are a lot further along.

The lack of Horizons on Macs is because Apple only ships an ancient version of OpenGL. Horizons uses a feature of newer versions of OpenGL that lets you use your graphics card as a massively parallel CPU, in order to calculate the shape of planet surfaces. Since Macs don't have that, you can't calculate planet surfaces fast enough and so no Horizons. Porting to Vulkan depends on how different it is in terms of concepts to OpenGL - if they have to completely redo how data flows inside the Cobra engine it's going to be a much bigger deal than if say 3d shapes are stored differently.
 
Mac is roughly 10% of the market and it isn't enough for frontier to seriously support, lack of Horizons.

I very much doubt 1% of the market Linux make up is going to be enough for frontier dedicate developers to maintain that branch.

I don't see Frontier committing to DX12 or Vulkan until the market shakes itself out and both APIs are a lot further along.

It's actually closer to 5% (1.11% for OSX 10.10 (minimum requirement for ED, 1.83 % for Mac OSX 10.11 & 2.31% for OSX 10.12) as of December 16. Your point does still stand however, though Linux itself makes up 2.2% of the PC user base, not a million miles away from OSX...

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0
 
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I've been a die-hard dedicated Linux user since the turn of the millenium; but, the reality is, some things just work on Windoze. Like my old dos pcb layout and schematic program, which runs on a dedicated windows XP machine. And Elite Dangerous, which runs on a dedicated Windows 7 gaming rig. Hardware is cheap enough, why must you have one and only one to rule them all? Just use the best tool for the job at hand. For example, my gaming rig, with its triple monitors, hotas, automotive seat, and dinky little half size hand held wireless keyboard/trackball mouse, would be totally inappropriate for doubling as a desktop pc/workstation.
 
I'm going to be investing in a new gaming rig when the new RyZen CPU's come out. Those new AMD CPU's only support Win 10 and Linux by design. I can't stand Win10 and feel Microsoft is committing an atrocious invasion of privacy on anyone who buys or uses that OS. I also think this will only get worse over time. So I'm not playing that game and I'll be getting a Linux OS on the new machine.

The game I want to play is Elite: Dangerous and I'd like to see a Linux launcher and client developed for it. During the original kickstarter for E: D, the stretch goal for a Mac client (Based on BSD UNIX) was £150,000 over the main goal of 1.25 million Pounds. This sounds reasonable to me and as the PS4 runs Orbis OS (a derivative of FreeBSD Linux) then I'd say we're already very close to having a Linux client that can support VR and all future expansions on a real gaming rig.

I'll even go further and if Frontier commits to either a Kickstarter (or internally funded project) to develop a Linux game client, I'll publicly vow to spend £500 toward that goal. I'd encourage them to embrace the Vulkan API as the core of this project as well.

Until I can play E: D on Linux, I'll be keeping my old Win 7 machine for just that. I'm hoping it will not be long before I can drop Windows completely.

If there is anyone else out there who would like to support this as well, please speak up. Cheers.

Lol analytics isn't privacy invasion. Do you use google? They collect far more information than Microsoft ever will. Why do you think google is so much better than bing? Because they invented a magic algorithm? No its because they log everything you search, what you click on with each search, what time it is, and where you live so they can provide better results to people searching the same thing in the same area at the same time.
 
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Windows Vista was terrible.

Windows 7 was awesome.

Windows 8 was... pointless.

Windows 9... who knows.

Windows 10, though - only operating system I'll use from now on, and upgraded to it from Windows 7. I thought 7 was great for performance, then 10 came along. It had its bugs, but they were relatively painless ones. Besides, Windows 10 supports DirectX 12 - I think it is the only operating system that does.

Linux is amazing, but it requires constant programming, especially if things go wrong.
 
Lol analytics isn't privacy invasion. Do you use google? They collect far more information than Microsoft ever will. Why do you think google is so much better than bing? Because they invented a magic algorithm? No its because they log everything you search, what you click on with each search, what time it is, and where you live so they can provide better results to people searching the same thing in the same area at the same time.

Can provide some fascinating results too if you follow the rabbit hole on accident... or on purpose. [uhh]
 
They can't do horizons on Mac yet and you're already asking for a Linux version. Don't see that being worth their time as the amount who use Linux over Mac and Windows is a fraction that doesn't attract money. If they had a successful kickstarter sure whatever but I'd rather see them spend dev time on fixing things and adding content. Adding yet another console/OS to the list isn't going to do any good.

And also, you should stop being so paranoid. Unless you're spying on someone and you dont want the government to know o.0
 
The reason is precisely what I wrote : do your own research.

It's not directed at or against you.
Problem is... Already well over a decade ago, I told people (IT Sec) where to look and tried to give them a hint or two. Even when presenting them a complete timeline with dozens of documented facts, in the end I had to realize I made a simple mistake.
It turned out they never wanted to learn. They wanted to believe that everything was okay. I was simply wasting my time.

Essentially the reason I stopped spoon-feeding people the research or direct facts/links etc. was this :
http://scienceblogs.com/corpuscallo...4a4855d5454ecce8c67-an-inconvenient-truth.jpg

So seriously, if your research (i.e. taken from magazines or alike publications for a general audience) turned out nothing... I'd say you looked at the wrong places and need to dig a little bit deeper.
Which is....funny, because I have done my research extensively before I switched to windows 10, when it was on the way out eve, while it was in beta, heck I voiced concerns together with the group.
But here's the thing, my research did not give the same result as you, I told you this and you are just pushing it away to say that that I didn't do my research right.

And here's the thing, if you use a microsoft service, then yes, things will be logged and whatnot, and prism and whatnot comes in over, if you use services, which include cortana and whatnot, they need to store some information, and this information is easily delivered to others, however largely the app information is contextual, so yes they might learn that you do certain things, they might look in your outlook emails.
Yup, use a microsoft service, and you can get these issues, this is however absolutely and utterly nothing new, happens many other places, including Apple, google and whatnot, heck proven fact that Apple has been significantly more questionable, and still is with its storage on iOS, and macOS, yet the outcry was against microsoft and windows 10?

But here's the thing, as a product itself, as an OS, windows 10 itself does not log excessively anymore, the things it does gather have an actual reason to be gathered and do not really compromise any privacy. Which is what I've told you, yet you've just dismissed it.
The issue is with services, use cortana, use whatnot, use any of the amount of features that need to gather data to function and that data can be compromised.
Windows 10 itself though? no, not really, which is my point all along.

This is what I found after 15 Seconds of a "I don't yet know anything on the matter" Simulated Google Search :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)


Just one of hundreds of Data points. Entry points for research.
You seriously saying doing that exceeds anyone's capabilities or time? Really?

That's the issue nowadays. Spoonfeeding. People want it. But I don't do that - for exactly the reasons so nicely demonstrated in this thread. It's always the same.
(continuing from above but also replying to this)
Yup, and I've read plenty of articles posts, forums you name it on the subject.
The problem is with microsoft services, and not microsoft products.
Problem is many products are a service now a days, and many do not know the difference, and also overreact when more information has been gathered by other, with less of a fuss, heck remember the big Apple hacks? icloud and whatnot? or when it was revealed that Apple has deliberately build in back doors? where was the public outcry? the mass of global news pages with concerns like there was with windows 10?

I'm not saying they should have had equal coverage and since they didn't Windows 10 is automatically 'safe', no.
I'm saying to anyone that researches and makes their own decision, keep that in mind, and remember a lot of media coverage does not mean it is as big as it is made out to be, take note 7, it was basically made out to be a danger to people's lives, and while yes, flaws were found, and yes, it should be recalled for the safety of consumers, it most certainly wasn't a life threatening grenade like it was made out to be. Yet now all people seemingly remember is that it blew up and was very dangerous, not that Samsung did the correct thing and recall the device, offer refunds and everything, taking a massive hit, when an enormous amount of companies including Apple just directly blame consumers for such issues.

And no this isn't a jab at Apple but fact, take the antenna problems there were? you are holding it wrong? Apple batteries burning (over several generations of products) 'you are charging it wrong', when its over several generations, that they can't increase the safety so that, if anything the charger dies, not the phone? that seems....very concerning, yet little outcry?

People should do their own research and come to their own conclusions, rather then believing directly what is media shouted, and yes, as already agreed windows 10 had some issues, but it doesn't have those anymore after launch and is no more or less a privacy concern as an OS as any other OS, and like most other OS, even linux (unless you very heavily modify it) if you use a service of some kind, privacy issues can occur.
But the platform itself which is on the user's own private drives? unlikely and would be a very very very poor business decision to do so.
Why services as in those that make use of storing data on servers? because services are hosted or handled on microsoft's own servers, and thus laws and everything else comes into play in an entirely different way then when it is a product. But people also need to learn to be away when a product is a service, and yes, there's been much talk about windows 10 being a service, a mixed drive/cloud solution, but that isn't the case currently, if it becomes, then the same issues as now mentioned will arise.

And no, this isn't me protecting Microsoft or being a fan or such, I'm not, this is reading through the actual facts, and seeing that they were blown way out of proportions compared to what else is going on, is what is going on bad for privacy in the long run? yeah definitely, but right now it doesn't really matter if its windows 7/8/10 you are using in terms of 'invading' privacy they are near equal.

Fact is, if you want 100% privacy you can't even be online, can't use any of the major popular products, since they also log, as mentioned above many have a reason for it, but they do log. So yeah..Privacy should be protected above all, and the largest amount of information gathered doesn't really touch your privacy. Heck using VPN's and whatnot is more likely to get you looked at then if not. Just say, if you want to be concerned gather information on what is collected rather then how, and judge from that.

That said, if anyone can point to actual repeatable proof, not what some site says or whatnot, but proof where you can go in and check yourself if it is truth or not, but actual objective confirmable proof of them storing/gathering things they shouldn't, that aren't done for a practical purpose (such having to manipulated calendar data, to make cortana and other programs able to manipulated it), I'll gladly admit that I was not aware of that.

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They can't do horizons on Mac yet and you're already asking for a Linux version. Don't see that being worth their time as the amount who use Linux over Mac and Windows is a fraction that doesn't attract money. If they had a successful kickstarter sure whatever but I'd rather see them spend dev time on fixing things and adding content. Adding yet another console/OS to the list isn't going to do any good.

And also, you should stop being so paranoid. Unless you're spying on someone and you dont want the government to know o.0

There's been plenty of talk to go Vulkan, once its matured a bit, so I see that happening, for performance and other reasons, there's very little reason to chose windows only dx12, when Vulkan allows cross platform (even consoles last I checked) support easily. And provides exactly the same features as DX12, so yeah, when they adding vulkan support, then delivering a cross platform version with solid performance everywhere becomes something that won't take as much dev time.
 
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Good post, support really just means if new product won't work on something that isn't aware of how to use, all they are saying is really "Hey if you are using an older product of ours we aren't going to go back and add support for newer features/product that come out, if you want to use them use our latest" which seems fairly normal.
 
as a win 10 insider.
yes it has some rubbish included in its programming, but in my opinion. it is the best most stable OS there has been to date. i like it totally.

Yeah as a software architect who does his share of financial market crypto (no, I don't re-invent the wheel...), and as a gamer, I think Win10 is better than anything before it.

But, I am all for Linux, and a Linux port.

OP should not have mixed healthy Linux evangelism (and support) with Windows 10 bashing and tinfoil hat wearing. If the thread is spinning out of control toward the closest sun, then OP can only blame themselves.
 
I haven't read all the replies in this thread so sorry if I'm repeating someone else.

WINDOWS 7 WILL WORK FINE ON RYZEN.
ANY x86-64 OPERATING SYSTEM WILL WORK FINE ON RYZEN; THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF x86 IN THE FIRST PLACE :)
 
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