Well typically when I find out I'm in already explored space for some jumps I do change course to get to unexplored areas. So seeing anyone is quite remote possibility regardless of mode.
PVP ACTIVITIES
- Thread starter XComanceX
- Start date
Are you talking to your alter ego?
while as an idea itself it has some interesting parts, it seems to me like its mainly about hauling and pve, brings a wholly new set of mechanics and assets that are mainly self serving in their purpose and distributes op equip. im not saying that its not worthy some futher exploring and crafting, but in this iteration it is very much unfeasable.
if you would perhaps like to develop this idea further i would like to read about it. and if you would like me to point out some of the flaws let me know.
I have 411 shield, just checked. I think it is perfectly enough. I don't think I met something more then 3G yet, and below 3G, it will have at least 50% of the hull on hard landing (if any, i still can fly and prevent it).
Conda is otherwise nice ship but isn't it pain to find landing spot for it? I mean nowadays there is a lot of credits in bioscanning and that means a lot of landings.
Not really, it lands better than Phantom or even Cobra sometimes. I have a carrier with me, changing ships periodically. I still feel Anaconda the best. And I gather ALL bios on the way - nothing missed.
For the hardest highland mushrooms I have fighter on board, if it takes more than 10 mins for the 1st sample of it - I launch fighter, scan samples, which puts a mark into EDMC/Canon. Then I land near, and drive SRV to the marks.
Yep the Annie is a huge lumbering beast and a pain to land sometimes, that's why i explore mainly in a Beluga.
Oh wait
O7
Out In the black always open only. Carrier nearby. Always in my dbx which for its size has a huge jump range. Easy to land for those awkward bios. Buggy on standby. But my G5 artemis suit with mods (jump,air,battery, nightvision) allows me to basically stay in the air whilst looking for the 2nd & 3rd scan in those difficult spots.
Open only because, well you never know!
I've scanned 10s of 1000s of systems all open only and to date ive never met a soul.
But it's just that feeling...what if?
Gaming is about thrills. It's about excitement.
I get none of that feeling in solo or pg. So I only play open.
In the 7 or so years I've played elite I've only been ganked once successfully (he got me). I've evaded 100s of attempts.
Try it!
Try open only...
It's the not knowing. Being carrier based you hand in regularly so it's no biggie to lose a couple of hours of data.
And chances are it'll never happen. Cos to date ive never lost data.
Thats a fact.
Open only because, well you never know!
I've scanned 10s of 1000s of systems all open only and to date ive never met a soul.
But it's just that feeling...what if?
Gaming is about thrills. It's about excitement.
I get none of that feeling in solo or pg. So I only play open.
In the 7 or so years I've played elite I've only been ganked once successfully (he got me). I've evaded 100s of attempts.
Try it!
Try open only...
It's the not knowing. Being carrier based you hand in regularly so it's no biggie to lose a couple of hours of data.
And chances are it'll never happen. Cos to date ive never lost data.
Thats a fact.
Exactly. I don't play games where I cannot do smoke break when I need. Playing in open basically chains you to controls. In other MMOs I was playing stealth class and hiding invisible behind rocks to go to smoke.
The awkward ones are always Fungoida.
Even then there's often a few on gentler slopes not far from flatter areas.
That said I prefer the view and manoeuvrability of the Phantom when searching mountains and canyons.
I too smoke. I like a cuppa Tea too and a few biscuits as well. So..
I land or come out of warp ( always play in VR) and simply log out.
I go smoke eat drink chat to the wife, then log back in and carry on. Out in the black your free to do anything you like. Trust me there's no chance of being attacked..leastways not in my experience thus far.
My missus was engineering her new mamba last night in deciat, in open. I noticed 2 players in supercruise one a hollow triangle
️ (his interdicter online) the other a hollow square. Nothing happened. She got her stuff done knowing it could've gone to the dogs if that cmdr had interdicted her. But like me she's not scared. In fact she's switched on...pips ready waiting for it to go south. But it didn't.
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In the Black it's not really important, what mode is.I too smoke. I like a cuppa Tea too and a few biscuits as well. So..
I land or come out of warp ( always play in VR) and simply log out.
I go smoke eat drink chat to the wife, then log back in and carry on. Out in the black your free to do anything you like. Trust me there's no chance of being attacked..leastways not in my experience thus far.
My missus was engineering her new mamba last night in deciat, in open. I noticed 2 players in supercruise one a triangle
Problems start in the Bubble.
Logout 2-3 times per hour is not an option
It keeps eyes in good condition, doing a breaks often.
I found that I had scratch on eye in 43 having it for more than 20 years. 2nd eye is still ok, just because I do often breaks. My schoolmates lost the vision hard already.
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
This thread is supposed to be about potential PvP activities isn't it? Not the benefit of one mode over another, not exploration ships (not that jump range is actually a real concern as you can reach all reachable systems with 42Ly), and not smoking/drinking habits please.
More accurately, it's about the Elite Federation of Pilots dropping their standards for entry...
So ultimately, the name of the game means "They'll let anyone in these days..."
edit: Ninja'd a couple posts later.
This bit about the name of the game always cracks me up, but I fear it will always be a talking point. In a way it reminds me of the new fsd everyone is in a huff over. Doesn't always matter what the developer's intent for something is, players can and often will interpret their own uses for it. I acknowledge and understand why the game was named Elite: Dangerous. I also recognize that if you ask random folks why a multiplayer space sim is titled Elite: Dangerous, many of them are likely to respond with something along the lines of, "I dunno, because it's dangerous in space?" or "With all those space pirates around you had better be an elite pilot?". Regardless, 10 years in it's a silly thing to argue over imo as either way it doesn't change what the game is today or will be tomorrow.
Back on topic, I'd like to talk more about PvP. Please understand that while I'm not exactly new to the game, I am new to sinking my teeth into it. My inexperience with Elite will surely show as I talk about things but bear with me. Maybe grab a coffee or tea if you want to continue reading, I feel this may be a long-winded post. Brace yourself as I'm going to mention other games.
My perspective is that of an average, casual PvE focused gamer that enjoys PvP as end-game content. I remember when I first started playing and discovered there are Federation, Empire, and Alliance superpowers I had assumed they potentially facilitated PvP activity. All Fed and Empire players hostile to each other, with perhaps the Capitol ship battles I saw in a trailer or other events pointing players to specific star systems for pew pews. Alliance I guessed would be for the 'I'd rather not pew pew other players if it's all the same to you, thank you very much." majority while still getting whatever benefits there are for being affiliated with a superpower. Sadly I quickly discovered that was not the case and their purpose was primarily just lore and unlocking ships. Then I read about Powerplay and got excited thinking, "Ok great, this is the consensual PvP system." However, it has got to be one of the most poorly implemented systems in the game. (next to maybe bounty hunting or multi-crew) It doesn't even tell you on the surface that it is a PvP system or that other players can attack you with impunity if you pledge. You have to dig a little to find that out. What it does tell you though is that if you join, wait 4 weeks, then deliver some propaganda leaflets you get fancy modules. This turns the whole thing into a terribly boring PvE/time grind for the majority of players to simply get their shiny pixels and then ignore it completely. When you encounter a player of an opposing faction, it seems common that they do not truly consent to PvP, despite joining the game system that enables it.
For those like myself that wish to get into Powerplay past the module shopping, it comes off as being way too convoluted and "spreadsheet oriented" for my PvPea brain to grasp. (I'm an Age of Empires 2 guy not a Civilization 6 guy, if that makes any sense) That's not necessarily a bad thing, playing politics in some way is great for players that enjoy a deeper dive past the simple "red is dead" mentality many PvPers have. It can provide incentive and motivation to remain active. As a casual combat pilot though, after watching several lengthy Powerplay guide videos I am still left with the un-answered question of, "When/where exactly does the pew pew happen?" Drew Wagar recently did a stream where he jumps into Powerplay for the first time ever after watching the Frontier unlocked segment. He struggles to figure out how to engage in it and where those gosh darn vending machines are located. I feel his reaction is representative of the average player's response to Powerplay. I really hope 2.0 makes more sense because 1.0 is one of the most disappointing and underwhelming features with great potential I have ever encountered in an online game.
Speaking of disappointment, bounty hunting. Rainbro has an excellent post on page 1 of this thread mentioning the relationship between piracy, bounty hunting, and cargo hauling and how the game fails to properly support said relationship. I couldn't agree more. Aside from no incentive for traders to enlist protection and piracy not paying very well, there are quite a few issues with notoriety in this game. So much so that I would make the argument, as Rainbro alluded to, that ganking is currently the only method of PvP the game actually encourages. Let me repeat that for the folks in the back. Ganking is the only PvP the game encourages. Not bounty hunting, not consensual group PvP, just straight up old school mmo non-consensual seal clubbing gank squads. That is a monumental game design flaw. This is largely because players that choose to murder innocent players have practically zero consequences. Ships get bounties and not pilots, that's crazy. Notoriety sticks to the player but each count ticks away after a mere 2 hours and is wiped clean when killed, that's crazy. Bounties can simply be paid off on top of being dirt cheap, that's crazy. The amount paid to a bounty hunter is only a fraction of the total bounty, that's crazy. The "bounty board" feature at stations is a useless joke. It should show online players and current locations, not show players that aren't online and only their last reported location. That's just bonkers, why does the game protect criminals? To top that all off anyone with a fat bounty can simply block any would-be bounty hunter trying to take them out and jump away.
For comparison, in Ultima Online each count took 8 hours to decay. Once you got 5 counts you were labeled a murderer and flagged red to everyone everywhere. City guards would instantly reduce your hp to zero on sight and dying did not magically wipe your murder counts away. When you died as a red you could only be resurrected by another player or one specific shrine in the game. If you were red only one town in the game would allow access to services such as npc merchants or accessing your bank box. All of this and still there were more red murderers in the game than the blue anti-pk "bounty hunters" could keep up with, and so the advent of Trammel and safe zones came into being once players complained enough about being pk'd, ganked and griefed constantly. Chamberlain's Rest as the new player starting location not being permit locked is a bizarre change in Elite. New players in UO enjoyed a "young" player status that essentially made them permit locked to attacks from other players until they voluntarily renounced their status, achieved a certain level of skill points or certain amount of logged hours. I'd be very interested to hear Frontier's justification for the lackadaisical crime & punishment system in Elite given their penchant for lore and immersion. I cannot fathom any good reason aside from credit farming abuse, and between potentially 2 billion credits an hour at thargoid spires and afk npc farming with turrets, that appears to be a bit of a moot point.
Whew, ok now as for CQC. (I know this is getting long and I already touched on CQC in a previous post. I'm sorry I enjoy writing!) CQC is a hollow shell of the main game's combat features and it is hilarious that it was initially sold as a stand-alone arena deathmatch game. It provides only 4 ships, 4 maps, and 3 game modes. Arena shooters had better features back in the 90's. If it wasn't so limited I actually think it would have been very successful. The main game's engineering really pushes the combat balance to team play imo and makes me think of 8v8 matches in Guild Wars. Imagine if CQC had an 8v8 mode for squadrons with options for various ship size limitations (for example 1 large, 3 medium and 4 small ships) and players had access to all ships, modules, and infinite engineering to play with. Or at least their own ships. That would provide a lot of fun theory crafting and emphasis on team coordination. Instead we have 4v4's with very limited theory crafting and emphasis on solo performance. Quake had 8 player online matches back in 1996. 20 years later and this is what we got? It's no surprise it bombed, especially after broken promises and a cancelled $100,000 cash pool tournament.
That is the type of team-based PvP I'm interested in. As I've been typing this I've been listening to a stream mentioned in the hotel thread about Sandro's old potential changes to Powerplay. In it at one point he explains why Frontier decided not to have an ongoing Alliance vs Horde type PvP system. The reason given is because they want it to make sense to the story, it needs to be lore based. In my opinion, taking about 27 years of online gaming experience and understanding of game design into account, that is a poor decision. I get that they consider themselves dungeon masters of the galaxy (at times I greatly appreciate that) but this is a game, and games should be fun for those playing it. If miners get analyzers and hot spots showing where to maximize their gameplay, why can't the game show players seeking PvP where to go to maximize theirs? As I get back into the game the best bet I've found so far would be joining a new open-only rp mining guild as a hired gun or roam popular systems looking for seal clubbing gankers/rp pirates. If you made it this far and know where to point me for organized group PvP squadrons please advise. Also please point out if I'm wrong in my understanding of the game. Educate me, for I am capable of changing my opinion. If you read this whole thing, thanks a bunch. To the moderater; I'm so sorry, as you had no choice in the matter.
TL;DR - Epic space sim lacks epic space battles. PvP options limited & notoriety jacked. Game only promotes 1v1/4v1 ganking. Please fix.
o7
Back on topic, I'd like to talk more about PvP. Please understand that while I'm not exactly new to the game, I am new to sinking my teeth into it. My inexperience with Elite will surely show as I talk about things but bear with me. Maybe grab a coffee or tea if you want to continue reading, I feel this may be a long-winded post. Brace yourself as I'm going to mention other games.
My perspective is that of an average, casual PvE focused gamer that enjoys PvP as end-game content. I remember when I first started playing and discovered there are Federation, Empire, and Alliance superpowers I had assumed they potentially facilitated PvP activity. All Fed and Empire players hostile to each other, with perhaps the Capitol ship battles I saw in a trailer or other events pointing players to specific star systems for pew pews. Alliance I guessed would be for the 'I'd rather not pew pew other players if it's all the same to you, thank you very much." majority while still getting whatever benefits there are for being affiliated with a superpower. Sadly I quickly discovered that was not the case and their purpose was primarily just lore and unlocking ships. Then I read about Powerplay and got excited thinking, "Ok great, this is the consensual PvP system." However, it has got to be one of the most poorly implemented systems in the game. (next to maybe bounty hunting or multi-crew) It doesn't even tell you on the surface that it is a PvP system or that other players can attack you with impunity if you pledge. You have to dig a little to find that out. What it does tell you though is that if you join, wait 4 weeks, then deliver some propaganda leaflets you get fancy modules. This turns the whole thing into a terribly boring PvE/time grind for the majority of players to simply get their shiny pixels and then ignore it completely. When you encounter a player of an opposing faction, it seems common that they do not truly consent to PvP, despite joining the game system that enables it.
For those like myself that wish to get into Powerplay past the module shopping, it comes off as being way too convoluted and "spreadsheet oriented" for my PvPea brain to grasp. (I'm an Age of Empires 2 guy not a Civilization 6 guy, if that makes any sense) That's not necessarily a bad thing, playing politics in some way is great for players that enjoy a deeper dive past the simple "red is dead" mentality many PvPers have. It can provide incentive and motivation to remain active. As a casual combat pilot though, after watching several lengthy Powerplay guide videos I am still left with the un-answered question of, "When/where exactly does the pew pew happen?" Drew Wagar recently did a stream where he jumps into Powerplay for the first time ever after watching the Frontier unlocked segment. He struggles to figure out how to engage in it and where those gosh darn vending machines are located. I feel his reaction is representative of the average player's response to Powerplay. I really hope 2.0 makes more sense because 1.0 is one of the most disappointing and underwhelming features with great potential I have ever encountered in an online game.
Speaking of disappointment, bounty hunting. Rainbro has an excellent post on page 1 of this thread mentioning the relationship between piracy, bounty hunting, and cargo hauling and how the game fails to properly support said relationship. I couldn't agree more. Aside from no incentive for traders to enlist protection and piracy not paying very well, there are quite a few issues with notoriety in this game. So much so that I would make the argument, as Rainbro alluded to, that ganking is currently the only method of PvP the game actually encourages. Let me repeat that for the folks in the back. Ganking is the only PvP the game encourages. Not bounty hunting, not consensual group PvP, just straight up old school mmo non-consensual seal clubbing gank squads. That is a monumental game design flaw. This is largely because players that choose to murder innocent players have practically zero consequences. Ships get bounties and not pilots, that's crazy. Notoriety sticks to the player but each count ticks away after a mere 2 hours and is wiped clean when killed, that's crazy. Bounties can simply be paid off on top of being dirt cheap, that's crazy. The amount paid to a bounty hunter is only a fraction of the total bounty, that's crazy. The "bounty board" feature at stations is a useless joke. It should show online players and current locations, not show players that aren't online and only their last reported location. That's just bonkers, why does the game protect criminals? To top that all off anyone with a fat bounty can simply block any would-be bounty hunter trying to take them out and jump away.
For comparison, in Ultima Online each count took 8 hours to decay. Once you got 5 counts you were labeled a murderer and flagged red to everyone everywhere. City guards would instantly reduce your hp to zero on sight and dying did not magically wipe your murder counts away. When you died as a red you could only be resurrected by another player or one specific shrine in the game. If you were red only one town in the game would allow access to services such as npc merchants or accessing your bank box. All of this and still there were more red murderers in the game than the blue anti-pk "bounty hunters" could keep up with, and so the advent of Trammel and safe zones came into being once players complained enough about being pk'd, ganked and griefed constantly. Chamberlain's Rest as the new player starting location not being permit locked is a bizarre change in Elite. New players in UO enjoyed a "young" player status that essentially made them permit locked to attacks from other players until they voluntarily renounced their status, achieved a certain level of skill points or certain amount of logged hours. I'd be very interested to hear Frontier's justification for the lackadaisical crime & punishment system in Elite given their penchant for lore and immersion. I cannot fathom any good reason aside from credit farming abuse, and between potentially 2 billion credits an hour at thargoid spires and afk npc farming with turrets, that appears to be a bit of a moot point.
Whew, ok now as for CQC. (I know this is getting long and I already touched on CQC in a previous post. I'm sorry I enjoy writing!) CQC is a hollow shell of the main game's combat features and it is hilarious that it was initially sold as a stand-alone arena deathmatch game. It provides only 4 ships, 4 maps, and 3 game modes. Arena shooters had better features back in the 90's. If it wasn't so limited I actually think it would have been very successful. The main game's engineering really pushes the combat balance to team play imo and makes me think of 8v8 matches in Guild Wars. Imagine if CQC had an 8v8 mode for squadrons with options for various ship size limitations (for example 1 large, 3 medium and 4 small ships) and players had access to all ships, modules, and infinite engineering to play with. Or at least their own ships. That would provide a lot of fun theory crafting and emphasis on team coordination. Instead we have 4v4's with very limited theory crafting and emphasis on solo performance. Quake had 8 player online matches back in 1996. 20 years later and this is what we got? It's no surprise it bombed, especially after broken promises and a cancelled $100,000 cash pool tournament.
That is the type of team-based PvP I'm interested in. As I've been typing this I've been listening to a stream mentioned in the hotel thread about Sandro's old potential changes to Powerplay. In it at one point he explains why Frontier decided not to have an ongoing Alliance vs Horde type PvP system. The reason given is because they want it to make sense to the story, it needs to be lore based. In my opinion, taking about 27 years of online gaming experience and understanding of game design into account, that is a poor decision. I get that they consider themselves dungeon masters of the galaxy (at times I greatly appreciate that) but this is a game, and games should be fun for those playing it. If miners get analyzers and hot spots showing where to maximize their gameplay, why can't the game show players seeking PvP where to go to maximize theirs? As I get back into the game the best bet I've found so far would be joining a new open-only rp mining guild as a hired gun or roam popular systems looking for seal clubbing gankers/rp pirates. If you made it this far and know where to point me for organized group PvP squadrons please advise. Also please point out if I'm wrong in my understanding of the game. Educate me, for I am capable of changing my opinion. If you read this whole thing, thanks a bunch. To the moderater; I'm so sorry, as you had no choice in the matter.
TL;DR - Epic space sim lacks epic space battles. PvP options limited & notoriety jacked. Game only promotes 1v1/4v1 ganking. Please fix.
o7
The PvP Hub still exists, but if you join the discord you just can't close the discord tab until you get tags, otherwise it boots you. Not sure why it is that way, but the hub is still there. Lots of people still PvP, I just don't think it's as big as it used to be. As I mentioned a few pages ago, organized PvP used to be big in Elite, back in the hay day of Elite's PvP scene. CGs being more frequent helped since you could just go to the CG and get fights, too.
As far as your reading of the game basically only encouraging ganking - I've been playing this game a long time as well, and I got exposed to PvP early on.
The ganking in Elite will likely be there because #1 ganking will likely be in games where it's possible, but also because #2 the PvP system is not robust enough. One need only look at Chamberlain's Rest right now to see this at play. A whole lot of people flipped the system to Archon Delaine and this has resulted in new players being pummeled with impunity. How is this good for the game? It's obviously not.
Making PvP a priority as a gameplay loop would not completely remove ganking, but I do think it would make some inroads and provide a way to prevent people from getting into ganking and possibly even bring some people out of ganking.
edited some things to clarify my stance in a more charitable way.
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Unfortunately they placed that system very close to ours
Do i really have to point it out again?
Elite Dangerous is not a PVP game.
It's a PVE game that allows PVP
However, the game does not acknowledge PVP at all as a game objective and there is no missions that require PVP or demand PVP.
Anyone can make-believe a pvp scenario around anything in the game.
For example, you can pretend that you are defending your system (which is not yours, by the way), and it's fine, but that's just you and you cannot demand anyone else to share the same fantasy with you and ask them to attack your system only in Open and only during the 1-2 hours you may play every day or every week.
And yes, while the game is advertised as MMO -- it's more about the shared galaxy and the indirect interactions between people playing and affecting the galaxy, no matter the mode they play in (Solo, PG, Open)
That's the MMO components - hundreds of thousands of players affecting the shared galaxy we all play in, no matter if intentional or not
And no, Open does not mean PVP - open means the chance to meet random commanders, which could result in some forms of direct multiplayer interactions, with the added beauty implied by the block function that can be used to remove the direct interactions, that you deem unpleasant, from your gameplay.
So, yea - whoever dreams about the Battle of Endor in Elite Dangerous - this is not the PVP game you are looking for.
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