PvP and Open Play Should be Required to Unlock Engineers!

[VR andysonofbob]

For sure! Why not.

As long as there are alternative engineers, so you can arrive at the blueprint via different routes like is it in game atm.

The fact engineers are all over the place, why not add a couple more so combat focuses players can unlock them all via a more combat focused path.

I appreciate you are just begging the question but how would this be explained, lore-wise?

 

[Slamdance_Kozmopolis]

It's quite a good troll though, judging by the amount of discussion it has generated!

Yeah, unfortunately it's mostly about the wrong topic. This is about engineering not PvP.

I hate mining and trading as much as you and others hate PvP. Making players do any of that to unlock engineers when they don't want to is very poor game design. I'm just pointing that out a venting because FDev claimed they were going to fix this issue 6 months ago...

I'm still waiting.

 

[EdzUp]

Players need to be exposed to all facets of the game. That's what people tell me, when I complain about unlock requirements...

If I'm required to go exploring to unlock Professor Palin & required to go mining to unlock Selene Jean, despite the fact that I have no interest in these activities, why shouldn't solo traders be required to play in open for 20 hours and win 5 PvP matches to unlock Felicity Farseer?

Fair is fair and everyone needs to broaden their horizons, no?

No plain and simple

Reason is simply Xbox and PS4 (remember those) if you havent invested in the online part of the account you are stuck in Solo. Just because its atuck in horizons is no reason to deny them access to parts of the game that are IN horizons because the newb clubbing brigade doesnt have anything to shoot.

Maybe the newb clubbing and race to uber killing machines is more of a reason people avoid open, back before engineering when all ships were the same it was more of an art now its a race to x number of rolls and level y engineering upgrades and its no longer fun. If you want PvP setup a league and hash it out but dont force your limited gameplay on everyone else.

 

[Jack Winter]

Yeah, unfortunately it's mostly about the wrong topic. This is about engineering not PvP.

I hate mining and trading as much as you and others hate PvP. Making players do any of that to unlock engineers when they don't want to is very poor game design. I'm just point that out a venting because FDev claimed they were going to fix this issue 6 months ago...

I'm still waiting.

I can see the argument and might even agree in part, but don't see what it has to do with PvP vs single player..

You also make an assumption that I hate PvP, I can't remember ever making such a statement..

 

[Jack Winter]

Maybe the newb clubbing and race to uber killing machines is more of a reason people avoid open, back before engineering when all ships were the same it was more of an art now its a race to x number of rolls and level y engineering upgrades and its no longer fun. If you want PvP setup a league and hash it out but dont force your limited gameplay on everyone else.

The engineering has made the game very unbalanced too, there is little a trading ship can do against a competent commander with a maxed out combat ship. I'd imagine that this is quite realistic and it is how things would work in the real world, though I'm not sure that it has much place in an arcade style space game.

There is also the almost complete absence of any kind of system security (cops/navy) that probably would populate safe systems in the real world, making piracy a risky proposition. And I guess no one in their right mind would shoot defenceless ships just for lols.

 

[CMDR Ramsgate]

I think a PvP engineer is a great idea. It's only fair, to reward PvPers for playing the game their way.

In fact, I think the PvP engineer should grant access to all engineering blueprints. And the engineer should be conveniently located in a large station with access to all services and equipment, like a second Jameson's Memorial. That way, the PvPers don't even have to waste their precious time going down to a planet's surface. The key would be to find a suitable location for this special engineer. I think somewhere like Rackham's Peak would be ideal.

 

[Jack Winter]

The key would be to find a suitable location for this special engineer. I think somewhere like Rackham's Peak would be ideal.

How about in San Tu, in Rackham's peak it would just make it impossible for noobs that want to haul alcohol in open..

 

[Slamdance_Kozmopolis]

I can see the argument and might even agree in part, but don't see what it has to do with PvP vs single player..

You also make an assumption that I hate PvP, I can't remember ever making such a statement..

Well it actually doesn't have anything to do with PvP. I merely suggested requiring PvP because I know a lot of people really don't like it, in the exact same way I don't like mining and trading.

I knew many would consider this obnoxious and unfair in the exact same way I feel it's obnoxious and unfair to require me and many others to go mining to access an engineer.

The real solution to unlocks (IMO) is to require time & effort but allow players to determine how they spend that time & effort.

I was hoping FDev was about to do this after posting that "engineering/material gathering" thread. But it seems to have slid off the road map.

I just want to keep drawing attention to the issue until FDev actually addresses it or has the courtesy to let us know they aren't going to.

 

[Caydran]

I don't mind the the title "Elite" being given for Exploration or Trading in Solo, but to give the title "Elite" for Combat in Solo, makes this title meaningless.

The title "Elite" for Combat should only be awarded in Open for killing real commanders only.

NPC's or Thagroids should not count. If your "Elite" in Combat, your a true killer of real people.

 

[Jack Winter]

I assume that the intention is to guide/force players to discover different game loops. I know that this was the case for me, as there are several things I'd probably never tried otherwise.

They could just tie the engineer unlocks to your commander ranking, meaning all it would take is time..

Though I suspect that if it takes about 500-1000 hours to unlock a certain engineer, then another part of the community would come out wailing that it sucks and that it's unfair that people that have a lot of hours to play should get ahead of others having limited time... As always impossible to please anyone..

 

[EdzUp]

The engineering has made the game very unbalanced too, there is little a trading ship can do against a competent commander with a maxed out combat ship. I'd imagine that this is quite realistic and it is how things would work in the real world, though I'm not sure that it has much place in an arcade style space game.

There is also the almost complete absence of any kind of system security (cops/navy) that probably would populate safe systems in the real world, making piracy a risky proposition. And I guess no one in their right mind would shoot defenceless ships just for lols.

I do agree but PvP only to unlock engineering would not make the game any better or make it more fun

 

[CMDR Ramsgate]

How about in San Tu, in Rackham's peak it would just make it impossible for noobs that want to haul alcohol in open..

I just meant somewhere similar to Rackham's Peak. 5000 light years out of the bubble and only accessible by FC.

 

[Aeorath]

Players need to be exposed to all facets of the game. That's what people tell me, when I complain about unlock requirements...

If I'm required to go exploring to unlock Professor Palin & required to go mining to unlock Selene Jean, despite the fact that I have no interest in these activities, why shouldn't solo traders be required to play in open for 20 hours and win 5 PvP matches to unlock Felicity Farseer?

Fair is fair and everyone needs to broaden their horizons, no?

 

[Jack Winter]

I just meant somewhere similar to Rackham's Peak. 5000 light years out of the bubble and only accessible by FC.

Lol, maybe you have a thought there. San Tu is in the bubble which is why I don't understand why PvP players don't hang out there. Sorry that sounds a bit unfair! I'd imagine that true PvPers frequent the system, while it's the seal clubbers that seek out weaker targets.

 

[Brrokk]

I don't mind the the title "Elite" being given for Exploration or Trading in Solo, but to give the title "Elite" for Combat in Solo, makes this title meaningless.

The title "Elite" for Combat should only be awarded in Open for killing real commanders only.

NPC's or Thagroids should not count. If your "Elite" in Combat, your a true killer of real people.

So most holders of the combat Elite title will be people with a second account and two PCs.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I don't mind the the title "Elite" being given for Exploration or Trading in Solo, but to give the title "Elite" for Combat in Solo, makes this title meaningless.

The title "Elite" for Combat should only be awarded in Open for killing real commanders only.

NPC's or Thagroids should not count. If your "Elite" in Combat, your a true killer of real people.

Not in this game, or the predecessors in the series....

The Elite rank has always been a test of endurance rather than skill - in this version of the game as in the previous ones.

If it was a PvP game, then I'd agree - but it's not (as PvP is an optional extra and not required by any in-game feature).

Even if only PvP kills were to count towards Combat Elite rank then it still would not be a measure of skill - as ganking in Deciat, and other locations, attests.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Simple, they derive pleasure from others' grief.

The Germans have a word for that: Schadenfreude

 

[zombieapocalypse]

So most holders of the combat Elite title will be people with a second account and two PCs.

Or a friend who is willing to let you repeatedly blow them up.

FDev would also need to implement a workable solution for combat logging if the rank were to be based solely on PvP kills.

 

[Chaparral]

Again, that's not it at all. I just want to make sure everyone is forced to do an activity they don't like for several hours before they can access engineers. Just like me when I'm forced to mine 500 tons of ore for armor upgrades or trade with 50 markets to get shield upgrades.

Exposing solo traders to the possibility of PvP combat for a scant 20hrs is ONLY FAIR.
I just want everything to be fair. Really.

Is that so wrong?

I guess you missed the whole lore piece with Selene Jean being a miner, and Lei Cheung being from a trader clan. These are engineering mods to protect commanders from pirates.

Having sweaty pvprs gearing up with trader mods and engineered prismatics (when they have no real allegiance to the Disney Princess other than to get her sexy green shields) so that they are invulnerable when crushing traders (not honest piracy mate) when they have no desire to scoop loot - seems a tad bit out of game lore / context.

This game is full of unpleasant redundant activities as gates. How many times have you relogged at HGSS's, Guardian sites, Dav's Hope, etc.? Too many I'd bet. I know I have. There is always meta optimization for these things. Traders aren't idiots. They'll play in Open while they're doing their 5K Palin jaunt, or completing their ExoBio climb. You'll never see them during that 20 hour mandatory Open window.

But seeing as you are all about fairness, I'd be down to do 20 hours of Open (heck I've done thousands) as an engineer gate. Just don't cry when you're blocked.

​

 

[Slamdance_Kozmopolis]

I don't mind the the title "Elite" being given for Exploration or Trading in Solo, but to give the title "Elite" for Combat in Solo, makes this title meaningless.

The title "Elite" for Combat should only be awarded in Open for killing real commanders only.

NPC's or Thagroids should not count. If your "Elite" in Combat, your a true killer of real people.

It actually takes a bit of T&E to get combat elite. I achieved elite in exploration & trading literally without trying...