PvP (Open) commanders not welcome on this forum?...

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Based on some of the posts I see here, one would think that even logging in to open results in an instant re-buy screen.

Depends where you are when you log in :)

There was a post in the Canonn thread the other day describing exactly that. If you pay attention it's fine sure, but you only know that because you do it.
 
Triple-dip ironic, considering that the the title was a declaration of perceived hostility on a forum, posted on said forum, that resulted in eleven pages of relatively congenial discourse.


I like to think it was my stabilizing influence that kept the discussion from getting too carried away. Hate to think what might have happened if I hadn't dropped by:)
 
Triple-dip ironic, considering that the the title was a declaration of perceived hostility on a forum, posted on said forum, that resulted in eleven pages of relatively congenial discourse.

Definite lack of moderator activity atm, clearly this is one of the less contentious issues despite the best efforts all round ;)
 
I think the behaviour of some of the groups that call themselves PvPers has poisend the atmosphere here in the forums.

I approve and welcome PvP, as long as it is what i call PvP (2 or more people willing to challenge each other) and not griefing (everything that is done against the will of one of the involved parties).

Fighting someone who is not prepared to fight has nothing to do with PvP, but with enforcing your way upon others (in RL such is called Terrorismn and/or Suppression). There are similar arguments from people that defend this aggressive behaviour in game and those who defend sexual assault and such in RL. And both groups often try to lay the blame on their victims.
 
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I think a main problem is indeed the personal view on what "griefing" exactly is...
Imho:
Pirates goin 4-1 on a trader (to get the cargo)? Seems legit!
Feds blowin up Imperial associates in there territory? Seems legit!
Sealclubbin people for no reason except to annoy them? Behold, lotta lack of something to compensate there!
 
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Sorry, I'm not in the habit of bookmarking posts in threads that run for thousands of pages.

Well neither am I, but you stand a better chance of finding it than I do.

I just wrote about a post I read a few days ago in the Canonn thread. I didn't bookmark it obviously, but I could probably recall enough of the content to find it if needed.
 
Diversity does exist here it's just that some people still have yet to roll for a basic G1 tolerance mod.

FD glitched it again... hah...

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A certain Christopher Hitchens quotation comes to mind:

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

Which is what I have done with your assumption. It is built on nothing but its own vaporous assertion. The burden of proof rests upon you to support it, not on me to develop an alternative.

If you have no alternative to support your own theory/statement, what else can stand but my hypothesis which has been considered with two branching conclusions?

Edit:

Actually, let's have some fun with this, I'm bored anyway atm:

Surely I'm not the only one laughing at the idea that the same crowd whose mantra is:

Stereotype, checked.

"If you go into open, you accept that unconsentual PvP is a thing!"

[Open mode contains possibility of PvP regardless of one's choice], true.


... is also saying:

Conjunction.

"The forums are too inhospitable! There's too much unconsentual disagreement! Avoid!"

[Forum is inhospitable for PvP players, there is too much disagreement regardless of one's choice, therefore avoid. ]

First of all, PvP players start with a handicap on this forum, I'm sure I don't have to go into the details of moderation issues.

There isn't as much disagreement as mud slinging, really, mostly one directional mud slinging not to mention.

No matter how good an argument is, there is clear dissent from a managerial perspective, so it's a permanent disadvantage.

Let's compare the two item now:

The former, everyone starts the same, everyone progresses the same.

The latter, everyone starts differently based on whether they are PvP or PvE, Pro-PvP is at a permanent disadvantage (If two posts are equally inappropriate, the PvP user's post will definitely be reported more. If there is name calling, there's a sure chance that the PvP user gets banned/infracted. This isn't some insult at some of the moderators, it's just how humans function. There is no denying that the vocal and more active moderators are Anti-PvP, or at least Pro-PvE).

So no, the two are not the same, and it's silly to compare them.


As a PvE guy, all I have to say is:

These are the (open) forums. Unconsentual rebuttal is a thing here. Git gud at verbal sparring against other players.

As a person who doesn't stick his head in the sand, I have to say, check your privilege as a pro-PvE user on this forum.

Also, I'm the living exception to your stereotype, ops?

No wonder you have ability to twist yourself into knots over the subtleties!

I don't know, I think it's better than falling on one's head and denying having a concussion. I had someone who did that in front me once, it was not a pretty sight.

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I'm not sure how you got there - this is a pretty diverse place, as long as you consider that there is a large bias towards people that have enough money, time, and inclination to play computer games. Computerless people without time nor inclination to play games may very well be woefully under-represented.

True, but that would be an adjustment in general scope.
 
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Depends where you are when you log in :)

There was a post in the Canonn thread the other day describing exactly that. If you pay attention it's fine sure, but you only know that because you do it.

I'll have to do a bit of a search for that,I am curious regarding the circumstances - though I could guess. My guess is someone logged out at a hot spot site (Ruins? Space ship wreck?), then logged back in, in open, and was spotted by CMDR-GankerX, and insta-killed, because explorer build.

A move, and also avoidable. But I'm jumping to conclusions, so will do a search and see for myself.

My personal thing is, I played Elite (and Falcon, and Gunship, and F1GP, and a host of other "sim-ish" single player games on my Atari ST as a kid.

My primary wish? To be able to connect to my friends and play together (as friend or foe), or better yet, with as many people as possible. Bulletin boards were a thing back then, but playing games over a network was unheard of for me, short of a game called Midi Maze, which allowed you to hook up to as many as 15 other Atari ST's via the midi ports. Sadly, I didn't know anyone with an Atari ST who was willing to carry it to my place (or vice versa).

Anyway, fast forward to present times.

ED, DCS, all the driving games you can name. It's here! Me dreams are reality! I *can* play with anyone - in the whole entire WORLD!!! GIVE IT TO ME!

And yet, now that it's here, we have people unwilling to play due to fear of a ganking, people who go out of their way to gank - regardless of how small the chance is.

Now, I'm sure I'm not the only kid who had this dream, I'd argue that most of those in their mid 30's and on, who experienced these games in the 80's, and very early 90's felt the same, but for some reason, have lost their faith int he vision.

Quite often, it's the old timers I see standing for solo and private groups, and avoiding open.

For me, that is a betrayal of my childhood. My personal view for open is the same as for motorcycling. I ride a sports bike, take it to the track on occasion, and have spent many years riding various types of bike (a KTM690SMC being my next target bike - but I digress).

My attitude to motorcycling is the same as ED. I *must be prepared to crash. That does not mean I will, but I need to be prepared *if* it does happen. That means wearing the gear, keeping my bike in top shape, practicing my braking and and always being alert, trying to see what mistakes people are about to make (incredibly easy to spot with experience). Basically, my life is in my hands, and if a truck runs through a red light and kills me, and he broke the law, and it's not my fault, I'm still dead. No support tickets to God, it's over. So it's on me, and I pay attention all the time.

I carry this to ED, it's on me, yeah, there are gankers, pirates, suicide winders, suicide NPC's... It's on me to learn the game, and learn my way around it - and it is not that hard. In fact, it's a cake walk - I watched, with great amusement, the Git Gud Guide to trading int he T-7. I had figured this stuff out quite quickly, and was amazed that someone who could get as far as a T-7 would need such a guide - yet, there it was, it's a great watch, funny as hell, and makes a great tutorial on how to avoid being a victim i open.

I guess my point is, I'd like to see people puff up their chests, sacrifice a little cr/h - because truly, nothing is worse for you cr/h than a re-buy screen - and get into open and create the living bubble full of hollow rectangles that we should have.

Z...
 
I know we have heated debates, but recent events sadden me.

I recently visited a PvP discord. I learned that they were hosting a PvP event. I asked why they weren't posting it here on the official forum, and the reply was:

"Forums aren't the place for pvp. Posters only cry about it, mods don't like it. Everyone who would be interested is on reddit or on the discord servers we posted to."

The one I spoke with didn't care to elaborate, so I'll just leave the comment here. But I'm genuinely surprised that the official forum isn't considered the goto platform for all who play Elite: Dangerous.

Maybe I'm just unaware of the importance of reddit and discord. Or that this forum was considered toxic by PvPers. I asked if it would be frowned upon if I shared the event here, and got no reply. Consent through silence I guess. So here's a link. It sounds like fun:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5orehu/event_small_ship_pvp_event_this_saturday/

See you in the black commanders. :)

(talk about a divided community... :()

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. More anti-PvP sentiment, hatred, vitriol, and salty tears have been championed on this forum than all the rest of the Elite Dangerous related forums on the web combined, and that is a lot. Mods have even been known to find the most flimsy excuses to moderate and ban PvP related posts and posters, without actually having true justification. Many of us are amazed that Frontier puts up with this but they have tacitly endorsed it through their inaction to regulate it since the very beginning. The Official Frontier Forums has earned its sullied reputation multiple times over. Simply mention PvP or any notorious names or groups and you will receive a fair bit of unwarranted backlash here. The modus operandi of the typical PvP-hater on this forum is to call any PvPer they wish to disagree with a "griefer" or "ganker" and then spew ridiculous fallacious arguments about roleplay, manners, and decency as justifications for being vitriolic about how people choose to play videogames; i.e. shooting other players spaceships without prior consent. The generalizations are ridiculous and the comparisons hyperbolic. I have literally been compared to a "" multiple times on this very forum simply for doing what I enjoy: shooting and destroying other commanders as I find them, without discrimination (with the exception of sidewinder noobs because I don't really do that, and although it is frowned upon, it is legal and permitted). This place is pathetic.
 
I'll have to do a bit of a search for that,I am curious regarding the circumstances - though I could guess. My guess is someone logged out at a hot spot site (Ruins? Space ship wreck?), then logged back in, in open, and was spotted by CMDR-GankerX, and insta-killed, because explorer build.

A move, and also avoidable. But I'm jumping to conclusions, so will do a search and see for myself.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/300054-Alien-archeology-and-other-mysteries-Thread-9-The-Canonn?p=4999656&highlight=logged+open#post4999656

This isn't the one I had in mind, turns out it's happened quite a few times though. Yes, as you described I think, switching modes to reset the instance & accidentally logged into open. When there are stories like this it's not a surprise that many don't want to log into open 'just in case'. It's virtually baseless of course, but understandable. I believe there are some guards at the site though, which is good. I imagine the puzzle may only work properly in Open, FDev have form :)

I snipped the rest of your post for brevity but yes, clearly we take a similar approach, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
 
I have literally been compared to a "" multiple times on this very forum simply for doing what I enjoy: shooting and destroying other commanders as I find them, without discrimination (with the exception of sidewinder noobs because I don't really do that, and although it is frowned upon, it is legal and permitted).

Okay I've asked this before of others & had no response:

If you want to play with other people, really you need to do it in a way that makes them want to play with you, your way (ie fight back I guess?). They are providing entertainment for you but what entertainment do you provide for them? Are you a begging, comedy pirate? A hardcore, organised PvPer looking for a challenging fight with other, known PvPers?

Why would someone want to play with you?

And have you used the report button on the post that compared you to a ? That seems like the kind of thing that would be frowned upon.
 
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Well neither am I, but you stand a better chance of finding it than I do.

I just wrote about a post I read a few days ago in the Canonn thread. I didn't bookmark it obviously, but I could probably recall enough of the content to find it if needed.

No one stands a chance of doing anything but losing their faith in humanity in those threads.

I just checked, can't even get google to dredge up the trash from the bottom of that pit, and if you've ever tried to use the forum search you've probably also given up and gone to google yourself after seeing how bad it is.

The first 20,000 posts on that topic doesn't even cover the first six months after release. No one has enough time to sift through that.
 
No one stands a chance of doing anything but losing their faith in humanity in those threads.

I just checked, can't even get google to dredge up the trash from the bottom of that pit, and if you've ever tried to use the forum search you've probably also given up and gone to google yourself after seeing how bad it is.

The first 20,000 posts on that topic doesn't even cover the first six months after release. No one has enough time to sift through that.

Well it was good of you to try at least :) I didn't find the exact post I remembered either, fortunately there were several similar examples in my case.

What do you think about Verax's situation with being compared to a ? Do you think that's endemic of the PvE community, or one or two particularly obnoxious exceptions?
 
FD glitched it again... hah...

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If you have no alternative to support your own theory/statement, what else can stand but my hypothesis which has been considered with two branching conclusions?

Edit:

Actually, let's have some fun with this, I'm bored anyway atm:



Stereotype, checked.



[Open mode contains possibility of PvP regardless of one's choice], true.




Conjunction.



[Forum is inhospitable for PvP players, there is too much disagreement regardless of one's choice, therefore avoid. ]

First of all, PvP players start with a handicap on this forum, I'm sure I don't have to go into the details of moderation issues.

There isn't as much disagreement as mud slinging, really, mostly one directional mud slinging not to mention.

No matter how good an argument is, there is clear dissent from a managerial perspective, so it's a permanent disadvantage.

Let's compare the two item now:

The former, everyone starts the same, everyone progresses the same.

The latter, everyone starts differently based on whether they are PvP or PvE, Pro-PvP is at a permanent disadvantage (If two posts are equally inappropriate, the PvP user's post will definitely be reported more. If there is name calling, there's a sure chance that the PvP user gets banned/infracted. This isn't some insult at some of the moderators, it's just how humans function. There is no denying that the vocal and more active moderators are Anti-PvP, or at least Pro-PvE).

So no, the two are not the same, and it's silly to compare them.




As a person who doesn't stick his head in the sand, I have to say, check your privilege as a pro-PvE user on this forum.

Also, I'm the living exception to your stereotype, ops?



I don't know, I think it's better than falling on one's head and denying having a concussion. I had someone who did that in front me once, it was not a pretty sight.

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True, but that would be an adjustment in general scope.

As the mods have pointed out, the reason for the seeming disparity in fair treatment is likely because PVP posters tend to fight their own forum battles when things get rough, whereas the other side tends to run and hide under the skirts of the local authority, often abusing the reporting system. The mods have suggested that we should take official responses rather than defending ourselves directly. I can confirm that the system works both ways.
 
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