Quantity or Quality - What I Think We Need

[Gwennie]

Without doubt Frontier and their employees do tremendous work on the animals in the game. Each is animated beautifully (excluding the climbing bugs but those are easily fixed thanks to a trick I saw Rudi Rennkamel do!) and has unique and interesting behavior...

But sometimes we’d really like a more focus on adding unique LOOKING animals to the game whose AI may otherwise be... Unremarkably different if different at all to current animals.

Primarily I’m motioning at subspecies such as giraffe subspecies and zebra, as well as adding the blue wildebeest and all the tons of antelope in Africa.

Where’s the Kudu? Or the Waterbuck and Reedbok, Dik-Diks, Steenbok, Saiga, etc etc? And DEER we need elk and red deer and Fallow and so on so fourth! If not for unique behavior, than to buff out the variety of creatures we have.

Of course there are also plenty of wild kinds of cattle we’re lacking, all the little cats, tons of dogs, bear species, and AMERICAN animals. We don’t have a ton of North American wildlife.

I’d love to see DLC that focus on genuses and families etc of animals rather than continents to add the buff in creatures we’re sorely missing, please! I know I wouldn’t mind waiting ages for it either. As long as I knew it would happen!

 

[RabidOkapi]

I think many need to realize how unrealistic such large demands are of so many species. It would be incredible to have hundreds of species and, but when all is said and done this game will likely Have the largest roster of animals in an unmodded zoo game ever.

Of course animals will be left out that people think are needed. I myself am still sore over the Capybara‘s exclusion. I also feel DLC’s may need one or two more animals To be fleshed out and am in favor of the larger packs as well, but realistic expectations need to be kept in many regards.

 

[Mjmannella]

Blue Fang Studios was able to manage adding 20 new animals in the span of 20 animals in the span of 11 months (ZT2 -> ES), 7 months (ES -> AA), and 5 months (AA -> MM). They also added 32 animals in the span one one year (MM -> EA). On top of that, each interval of animals added animals with completely new rigs and animation sets.

If we compare this to Frontier's scheduling (1 pack of 4 habitat animals every 4 months), they will have added 16 habitat animals by December of this year (13 months), with one known newly added rig and animation set (red kangaroo).

Graphics an the sort are irrelevant, today's technology makes it easier to make more detailed models than ever before. And if this limited animals meant that we were getting more intrinsic animals, then why are we getting Arctic wolves and dingos instead of muskoxen and common wombats? You cannot honestly argue that either of those canids took as much time to make as the giant anteater or red kangaroo (for example). Not only is Frontier under-preforming compared to a company from over a decade ago, they are also taking the easy route for the most part.

It's 100% reasonable to expect the devs to pull up their socks and add more than 1 animal per month.

 

[RabidOkapi]

While I already agreed that I think a few more animals per pack is perfectly reasonable as a request, people are asking for more color variants, more fur patterns and length variants, and more animals added to each DLC (Often in the form of the game missing dozens of animals or more). Some have even asked for new rigs for juvenile stages of animals...which would be awesome.
If we got a game where animals had 15 variants each varying by more than just color and individual personalities that included 300 or more species, I would be absolutely amazed. I just think balancing expectations is needed a bit. One or two animals more in a DLC is reasonable.

I would have to disagree that Frontier is underperforming from a company ten years ago, so agree to disagree. Though they may be taking the easy route with a few rigs in DLC’s.

 

[NZFanatic]

To be honest I only think we've seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of new content.

My hunch has always been that the scheduling of DLC lines up with that of PlanCo. The first three PlanCo updates were minor seasonal updates (Winter, Spring, Summer) that added limited new content (rides, scenery). The first three DLC of PlanZo are similar in that they add new animals and scenery, come with gameplay updates, and are limited in scope. If they continue down the PlanCo route, then the next pack ought to line up with the Spooky Pack, which might hint at something more expansive in the near future. Given that this is a zoo game, however, one of the biggest things we're missing so far is birds. While none of us can agree on the best way to implement birds, we can agree that any DLC that adds birds to the game would realistically need to contain more animals than the current DLC models allow (since 'birds' is a massively diverse group).

So I'm willing to bet that we'll see something like birds added in the near future, which will in turn add a whole new element of gameplay and come with a host of new species.

I also think we'll see small animal-only packs a la the ride-only packs for PlanCo and the dinosaur-only packs for JWE, covering areas that are already well fleshed out (such as Africa or Asia).

The question of quantity has been raised since the Arctic Pack. Unlike many I've been managing my expectations and making guesses based on clues, and so far the DLC has lined up exactly how I thought it would (except I expected Australia and South America to be switched around in release date).

So we are still missing Europe and North America in terms of animals, but not in terms of theming (the New World theme, while modernesque and flashy, is supposed to be 'North American', and the Classic theme, while Victorian, is supposed to be European). It isn't unrealistic then to perhaps expect we might see Europe and North America come as animal-only packs. I'm also hoping we'll see South America and Australia expanded upon in smaller packs as well (but who knows? It's all just guesses).

 

[Jeminyne]

As I was discussing with NZFanatic before, I have a feeling the low quantity of animals will change, after Frontier finishes with construction packs. Or at least, they might take our suggestions for more animals as a reason to start animal-based DLC packs that leave out anything else.

I'd appreciate the variety:

Finish up the last few continents in the same way we've been doing things-- A continent is highlighted, with four habitat animals, the construction pieces, a scenario here and there-- then switch to something else. A few biome-based packs with NO construction pieces, but seven habitat animals and three exhibit animals? Then maybe a big bird pack and/or marine pack? Then a free update with some extra building pieces, scenarios, and finishing touches? There's room for variety like that. Planet Coaster DLCs changed things up after a while, if I've been told correctly.

 

[ElectricMonk]

.... Graphics an the sort are irrelevant, today's technology makes it easier to make more detailed models than ever before....

This just doesn't make sense. First, the behaviour and coding are far, far, far more complex, which takes time. Second, today's technology means that all graphics / design (art in general) etc. has to be done at a much higher level of resolution, complexity and realism. Neither of these are things that 'today's technology' makes easier... quite the reverse.

 

[Mjmannella]

This just doesn't make sense. First, the behaviour and coding are far, far, far more complex, which takes time. Second, today's technology means that all graphics / design (art in general) etc. has to be done at a much higher level of resolution, complexity and realism. Neither of these are things that 'today's technology' makes easier... quite the reverse.

PZ's animal behaviours aren't really any more complex than ZT2's. Hell, PZ doesn't even have eggs, pack hunting, diving, or animations for attacking guests.

Also, 1080p is pretty much the bar for modern games, and modern programs make it a lot easier to reach that bar than it was 15 years ago. You'd be hard pressed to find a studio-made game that isn't in HD this day and age.

 

[Sheep]

PZ's animal behaviours aren't really any more complex than ZT2's. Hell, PZ doesn't even have eggs, pack hunting, diving, or animations for attacking guests.

Also, 1080p is pretty much the bar for modern games, and modern programs make it a lot easier to reach that bar than it was 15 years ago. You'd be hard pressed to find a studio-made game that isn't in HD this day and age.

Hi! I just wanted to respond to this one. I've done some 3d work before, and while I do not know how Frontier operates, I think a lot of people might not know how time consuming it actually can be? I think it's pretty fair to say that the level of detail in graphics matter quite a bit when it comes to the time it takes to finish an asset. Yes, tools get better with time and can allow for faster workflows, but not to the extent that an animal from Planet Zoo will take less time to finish than one from Zoo Tycoon 2.

In today's times new techniques are being used in addition to the old ones. Zoo Tycoon 2 animals were made using mainly one texture map; the color. Now, not only do you need that color to be at a much higher resolution (which means more details to fill in), but you also have to create maps for shiny areas, certain shadows, surface detail, and more, depending on the game. And it can be a process!
The actual sculpting of the animal takes much more time, as they have to be more detailed now than ever.
Then there is the fur shader, which can be a proccess to tweak.

And that is just part of the visuals for creating an animal! Then the same techniques apply to all the assets we have. Animation and coding are their own chapters. I know nothing about those so I will leave them be...

 

[Barje]

Both, now we have quality in 75% and no quantity (what i say no-quality are following Gray Wolf subspecies, and himalayan Brown bear)

 

[paul78]

To answer the original question in itself... I will take quality over quantity any day. It’s not even debatable to me even if it means less animals in the end. Zt2 was a amazing game and the vanilla version was able to fit a ton of animals due to their cartoonish style and textures. Don’t get me wrong the game out of the box is great but a big thanks to the many modders in the zt2 community many of them now playing planet zoo who brought the realism of the objects and animals to another level. When finished it was like playing a totally different game. So to answer the original question quality always.