Question for frontier.....WHYYYY?!

So you want to bring all of that up without realizing that if you try to build a ship for everything at once you build a ship that is very bad at everything at once. You must build the ship for a given task at the time. Your not going to really have a fuel scoop a refinery and a detailed surface scanner on a ship that is going into a high intensity conflict zone.
Lol. Very bad hey? Please, tell me more about your shortfalls in this game.

I do take fuel scoop and DSS into high intensity regularly. It's fine. I'm not sure what you're doing wrong. In fact, most of my ships go into high CZs with =~ 4k EHP across shield and hull, not, what, 16k? That extra 12k is completely wasted.

If you must have a ship like that in order to go into High CZ, that says more about your ability than the fitting requirements.
 
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I remember ages ago looking at shield booster resistance upgrades and thinking "Well, that seems pretty minor", thinking the resistance was applied to the shield booster's HP contribution, not the whole damn ship.

i.e Assume all resists are base 0%... base thermal EHP of 1000 and base shield booster.. err.. boost... of 200 HP, and G5 thermal engineering affording +40% thermal resist, that it would become:
Thermal EHP with unengineered booster = 1000 + 200 = 1200
Thermal EHP with one G5 thermal engineered booster = 1000 base + 280 (i.e 200 + 200*.4) = 1280

not
Thermal EHP with one G5 thermal engineered booster = (1000 + 200) + (1000+200)*0.4 = 1680
Yeah, though to be clear, I was meaning minor regarding its effectiveness in dealing with the power scaling from power creep issues.
Kind of like fighting fire with fire, I suppose, but that's the game meta in general since the Engineers.
Gotta get some of those sort of players motivated to keep working toward their ideal kits, while not having those who get there one-shot shooting everything.
 
Lol. Very bad hey? Please, tell me more about your shortfalls in this game.

I do take fuel scoop and DSS into high intensity regularly. It's fine. I'm not sure what you're doing wrong. In fact, most of my ships go into high CZs with =~ 4k EHP across shield and hull, not, what, 16k? That extra 12k is completely wasted.

If you must have a ship like that in order to go into High CZ, that says more about your ability than the fitting requirements.
That ship isn’t needes for high CZs. But its pretty dang handy at running the occasional commander off from high CZs.

Quite frankly beyond it being your preference and of course you are free to have it… nobody really cares if you approve of the build or not. Not being flippant either. Just seems people have a hard time accepting others preferred play might not align to theirs.

People told me my pre-carrier explorer/miner ships were nuts but its what I liked doing and the way I liked doing it so I didn’t care. I kinda dig the big lumbering ships and the fighting in them. I like the fact it can do PvE work and go to a CG and make some ruckus. Don’t like it? Don’t build it. It’s certainly not invincible.

Depending on my mood it might have collectors, cargo, and a scoop so it can run a mission or two as well. It interdicts just fine. I sure dont tend to do any planetside work in it though.
 
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That ship isn’t needes for high CZs. But its pretty dang handy at running the occasional commander off from high CZs.

Quite frankly beyond it being your preference and of course you are free to have it… nobody really cares if you approve of the build or not.

People told me my pre-carrier explorer/miner ships were nuts but its what I liked doing and the way I liked doing it so I didn’t care. I kinda dig the big lumbering ships and the fighting in them. I like the fact it can do PvE work and go to a CG and make some ruckus. Don’t like it? Don’t build it. It’s certainly not invincible.
Whether I approve of it or not certainly is irrelevant to the objective existence of a ship build.

But isn't the implied point of this thread that it's seen as some OP megaship that shouldn't exist? That's an opinion, and I'm challenging that opinion by suggesting this is a pretty niche-case build and is, ultimately, pretty useless. I don't think it's fair in that case to suggest that opinion matters, but mine doesn't.

I mean, if someone wants to use a (imo) useless build like this... go for it? But it's hardly game-breaking. I don't like it, and so I don't build it. But I'm not the one suggesting it shouldn't be possible here.

EDIT: Incidentally, it's a bit contrary of the OP to post this thread questioning why this is a thing, then claim "You need it for high CZs"... I guess that's why?
 
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I seem to remember a major tech company doing a study about how orange is the best (most readable?) color on black. I could be misremembering, but I've always wondered if that's why Fdev went with such a meh color for basically every system.

I think that's correct.

I read, somewhere that orange is also the optimal colour for car instrument illumination because of something to do with how our eyes need to adjust slightly to view things in darkness.
Apparently it's all to do with how the colour spectrum works, with red being the easiest colour to focus on, green being okayish and blue requiring our eyes to adjust the most... which is a bit awkward, considering how trendy blue instrument illumination currently is. :confused:
 
Lol. Very bad hey? Please, tell me more about your shortfalls in this game.

I do take fuel scoop and DSS into high intensity regularly. It's fine. I'm not sure what you're doing wrong. In fact, most of my ships go into high CZs with =~ 4k EHP across shield and hull, not, what, 16k? That extra 12k is completely wasted.

If you must have a ship like that in order to go into High CZ, that says more about your ability than the fitting requirements.
just because you dont have the desire to have your ship to perform the best it can at a given task doesnt mean i shouldnt want it to.
 
just because you dont have the desire to have your ship to perform the best it can at a given task doesnt mean i shouldnt want it to.
Define "best", since I'm not quite sure what you've posted here is anything close to that... again, the problems with FT-warrioring.

If i can go into a high-cz and comfortably (i.e am not required to disengage, flee or take other evasive action because of risk of destruction) and fight with max ~2k EHP shields and have them never get broken, why would i bother throwing an extra 14k on top of that? It's pointless overtanking when you could even go as far as to fit nothing extra, and improve overall manouvering, speed and heat.

Likewise, if i can fight in a high CZ and never have my shields drop, why bother having any hull tank at all? Fit those internals with whatever cargo racks, limpets and other utility fits you like.

Now, there is a good reason to do some overtanking; when you screw up, or if you're just a bad pilot. No shame in either... i can only take on a cyclops in ax combat. But emphasis here is that it's player fault that leads to that. More EHP != Overall better ship, if you're walking away from a typical fight with 80% shields left. It's like saying a 700t hauler is better at hauling 180t than a 250t hauler with other modules installed. There's no point having 700t of capacity if you're never going to fill more than 200t, and there's no point having 16k EHP if you're only ever going to lose about 2k of that.

So if you're the sort of player who needs to have nothing but tank fit to survive a high cz, and anything less than a one- trick- pony fit will result in your death, then sure, this is the fit for you.

But it is a one trick pony (in a pve context) and is grossly over- tanked for the needs of most pilots, and the sacrifice of greater flexibility and less time switching ships. , and it is a pretty handily defeated fitting (in a pvp context).

So at most, this fit is "adequate" if all you want to do is sponge bullets and go pew pew without care, but i wouldn't go in to PvP with it, nor would it have much utility for anything else.

But is some OP god-ship in need of nerfing? Not really. Fit it if you like... but there's much better out there (notwithstanding any debate about the general mechanics of ship fittings FD employ)
 
the fact that you can have a ship with 7k+shield, 7k+ hull, 20ly jump range, boost at 476m/s, perma boost, AND have 60% module protection all at the same time

The cutter looks great, flies fast and turns on the same circumference as a planetary body. It is useless for any form of combat. End of. All the shields in the world are useless if you can't turn to fire at the enemy. I've had Cutter, Corvettes, T10s and COndas. And the trusty Conda gets the most hours. My cutters sit idle waiting for the next mining exploit.
 
the fact that you can have a ship with 7k+shield, 7k+ hull, 20ly jump range, boost at 476m/s, perma boost, AND have 60% module protection all at the same time

Its one reason i was a bit nervous when people started demanding "crafting" and then FD went ahead and added it.

"Crafting" is when people want power creep and this is what it leads to.

I said at the time, it should be more about trade-offs. You want strong hull and shields? Then be prepared for insane power requirements or loss of speed or something else.

But the downsides of engineering can largely be either ignored or engineered away!

One of the upshots of this that really annoyed me was how people could then AFK combat zones so FD, in their usual idiom, just made CZ ships massive bullet sponges, thereby making things worse for those of us who enjoyed doing CZs in small ships. They used to be a good challenge for small ships, now they are just an exercise in patience and frustration.
 
the fact that you can have a ship with 7k+shield, 7k+ hull, 20ly jump range, boost at 476m/s, perma boost, AND have 60% module protection all at the same time
I doesn't come like that straight out of the box.

Why don't you like the Vette? Are you a small ships person like me? I still have a Vette. I even had a Cutter but I sold that one. A Vulture is all you need. Everything else is just extravaganza :alien:
 
Its a get-of-my-lawn trader, and thats its only use. People trying to fight with it get pointed and laughed at anyway, so if you want to take the shield from it, it becomes as useful as the T10.

just because you dont have the desire to have your ship to perform the best it can at a given task doesnt mean i shouldnt want it to.
If thats your best shot, then why do you build for explosive resistance?
 
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you do realize the cutter has enough manuveribility to orbit and fight a thargoid farily well. The only thing it really has a problem with is stopping, which can be mitigated by turning around and thrusting in the other direction.
I'm familiar with the Cutter's maneuverability, that's why mine is relegated to moving Tritium from storage to my FCs fuel depot
 
just because you dont have the desire to have your ship to perform the best it can at a given task doesnt mean i shouldnt want it to.
That build is a one trick pony, as mentioned. Weapons convergence is awful, turns like a pig on roller skates, and can't do anything but take a beating. It's a pretty good ramming ship, tho. If you can keep it on target. Hanging out at a Hi-CZ isn't a trick unique to the build, either. I can hang out all day long in my Corvette. Or an Anaconda.

Meta rules all the builds. If it was the OP/Super/Megaship you are proposing, it seems to me we'd see a ton more just like it. Much like FDL gankers and Krait Xenos.

You don't, therefore it isn't.

What it is, is an extreme niche build that's good for proof-of-concept or starting internet arguments ( Mission Accomplished ! ).
 
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