Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[Danquememe]

A new player here, about 6 weeks into my time in Elite. So apologies if this is repetitious, but it's something that's been on my mind.

I'd really like to have some dialogue with players who mainly play in Open, but who get angry / upset when they encounter the sort of "rogue commanders who have betrayed the Pilots Federation" described on the game's website, i.e. gankers and pirates.

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

And most importantly, how often does it actually happen that you have a cooperative (non-PVP), spontaneous emergent experience in Open? Does that actually happen? I honestly don't know.

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction. It turns out that was a very small price to pay to open a door to a huge amount of progression and expert guidance. I wasn't mad about it at the time, and I'm tremendously grateful now, once I realized just how complex and involved making positive progress in this game can be.

Accepting the friend request from the player with the crazy looking Holo-Me was the smartest thing I did in my first few hours in the game, as it turns out.

 

[space voyager]

Well, meeting someone and saying hello is nice. But by far the most enjoyable Open experiences were AX combat CGs. Fighting Goids in good company... That and expeditions.

 

[Jellicoe]

PvP is the single most exciting part of the game, but you don't get good enough to enjoy it without eating a good few rebuys.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

Now you can meet people in sys chat without being in open.

 

[Danquememe]

Well, meeting someone and saying hello is nice. But by far the most enjoyable Open experiences were AX combat CGs. Fighting Goids in good company... That and expeditions.

Co-op Thargoid hunting is something that's definitely on my to-do list, now that I've gotten (with my ganker friends' help and fleet carriers) engineers unlocked. Expeditions sound neat, too.

But - how "spontaneous" are these things? Like, don't you have to have some amount of coordination with the other players first? I.e. be winged up, maybe on each others' friends lists, etc?

I'm specifically trying to understand how frequently people actually meet in a pacifist way in Open, and then go on to become friends, etc., as compared to "I joined a Discord (or whatever) and found like-minded players that way." Because, if I understand the complaints correctly, that's seemingly the thing that people are playing in Open for - some kind of emergent co-op experience - but then they get angry when what they actually encounter is emergent PVP / ganking.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

Co-op Thargoid hunting is something that's definitely on my to-do list

When I get back from Colonia already going to attempt to hit up a Cyclops with another on here PS4.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

Co-op Thargoid hunting is something that's definitely on my to-do list, now that I've gotten (with my ganker friends' help and fleet carriers) engineers unlocked. Expeditions sound neat, too.

But - how "spontaneous" are these things? Like, don't you have to have some amount of coordination with the other players first? I.e. be winged up, maybe on each others' friends lists, etc?

I'm specifically trying to understand how frequently people actually meet in a pacifist way in Open, and then go on to become friends, etc., as compared to "I joined a Discord (or whatever) and found like-minded players that way."

Also if you're on PC, sir ganksalot is a tremendous help...Yes he is a ganker but also trains and teaches others to avoid/escape and even engage.

 

[Havvk]

I only hate the fact that, using this scenario; That I can be a victim of a pirate/ganker and lose everything, compared to if the gankers gets blown up they lose nothing. In fact it helps them clear their noteriety and now they can gank even easier now.

 

[Klarg]

Co-op Thargoid hunting is something that's definitely on my to-do list, now that I've gotten (with my ganker friends' help and fleet carriers) engineers unlocked. Expeditions sound neat, too.

But - how "spontaneous" are these things? Like, don't you have to have some amount of coordination with the other players first? I.e. be winged up, maybe on each others' friends lists, etc?

I'm specifically trying to understand how frequently people actually meet in a pacifist way in Open, and then go on to become friends, etc., as compared to "I joined a Discord (or whatever) and found like-minded players that way."

I played for a long time in open without being ganked to death, though I have eaten a fair few rebuys now. I met quite a few commanders who asked if I would like to join their squadrons (which would have, I assume, enabled some kind of co-op pve play) but always declined. I was never too interested in playing multiplayer, but it is not unknown for people to have non-pvp interactions. I took over a system with another commander once, playing with the BGS. PVP interactions, or being ganked, is mainly confined to certain high traffic systems. I like the ganking, the NPC's are no threat, so other players add that element of danger that is missing from Frontier (E2).

 

[Danquememe]

I only hate the fact that, using this scenario; That I can be a victim of a pirate/ganker and lose everything, compared to if the gankers gets blown up they lose nothing. In fact it helps them clear their noteriety and now they can gank even easier now.

One small clarification: If your ship had bounties on it when you are blown up, you have to pay those, plus the cost of the rebuy. So when gankers get blown up, it can actually be quite expensive, especially if the bounties have run into the hundreds of millions.

Also, if you are blown up by someone with notoriety, your rebuy cost is actually reduced. Meaning, if you're going to get blown up by someone, it's better for you if they have notoriety, and the higher their notoriety, the better, because it will save you money.

 

[Chrystoph]

Welcome aboard, pilot!

As to your questions, seal clubbing (the intentional killing of new-ish players) isn't really where ganking makes its mark although that has certainly been a problem in the past.

You have to understand that most gankers don't want an interaction where the other player has a chance of winning. They want a guaranteed kill to brag about.

As a result, they do things like a four on one attack on a merchant ship, or calling a Fuel Rat out to the edge of the galaxy then killing someone that came to rescue them.

I am glad that you found people that you enjoy playing with, but gankers aren't in the game to meet the majority of the player base in any capacity other then causing grief. There is a reason they are known as salt miners, and it has nothing to do with a commodity in the game.

 

[Danquememe]

I like the ganking, the NPC's are no threat, so other players add that element of danger that is missing from Frontier (E2).

Pretty much this. Once you learn the game and get engineers unlocked, PVE combat is pretty tame. Open gameplay and the possibility of PVP at any time adds a huge amount of spice and excitement, and helps Elite live up to its "dangerous" moniker.

EDIT: "keeping Elite dangerous" is a cliche. Apologies.

 

[Winterwalker]

It's annoying to lose your ship in more or less any circumstances, period and while people will usually say they were blown up for no reason, likely their attacker had a reason (even if it's only to punk people). So stay frosty peeps, it's a jungle out there.

 

[Danquememe]

I am glad that you found people that you enjoy playing with, but gankers aren't in the game to meet the majority of the player base in any capacity other then causing grief. There is a reason they are known as salt miners, and it has nothing to do with a commodity in the game.

And you've hit upon the crux of my inquiry: how can there be salt to mine in a game where Open mode is explicitly about the possibility of emergent PVP at any time?

The only way someone could get salty about that is if they were playing in Open with some expectation that was undercut by the reality they experienced, and that disconnect lead them to feeling betrayed and angry.

I came to Elite for PVP and PVP only, so when I have been ganked - and I've been ganked plenty - I accepted it as an inherent part of the game, the thing I had signed up for. I know there are tools at my disposal which I can use at any time to prevent PVP from being possible, while still allowing me a consequence-free way to progress. So I don't get salty - because my expectations are not being subverted.

I guess the purpose of this thread is to learn what expectations people are bringing to Open, and how they came to have them, when Open is explicitly the only mode of gameplay where emergent, random PVP with strangers is possible.

 

[HAMM3R]

I don't really do PvP but I don't get upset if I encounter rogues, either.

But anyhoo, one impromptu non-PvP encounter I remember is when I dropped into a Guardian site and noticed another cmdr fighting the drones in their SRV. Knowing how pesky the drones can be, I decided to give them what little air support my mainly for exploration equipped ship could provide. Wasn't much, but enough to do the trick. They were seemingly happy for it and we exchanged a few words before going about our businesses, never to see each other again.

Thought it was kinda fun, random encounter.

 

[Chrystoph]

And you've hit upon the crux of my inquiry: how can there be salt to mine in a game where Open mode is explicitly about the possibility of emergent PVP at any time?

Sorry, forgot to add that in my OP. The game selects Open by default, so, if you don't specifically choose a Private Group (which you won't belong to as a new player) or Solo, Open it is.

As to the rest of your post, it seems you are projecting your preference onto everyone that joins the E: D environment.

 

[Danquememe]

Sorry, forgot to add that in my OP. The game selects Open by default, so, if you don't specifically choose a Private Group (which you won't belong to as a new player) or Solo, Open it is.

I mean, sure, if you also don't read, and just blindly click on things. But Elite strikes me as very much not a game for those who just blindly click on things. It will certainly teach you to pay careful attention to its button's labels, and this Open / PG / Solo screen is really just a preview of coming attractions, at that.

As to the rest of your post, it seems you are projecting your preference onto everyone that joins the E: D environment.

I mean, I certainly have my preferences, there's no doubt about that. But again - I want to understand how people participate in Open with the expectation that they somehow won't be subject to random PVP at any time. Since that is, in fact, what the mode promises to offer the possibility of. At any time, anywhere, with no explanation or justification whatsoever.

 

[Chrystoph]

Pretty much this. Once you learn the game and get engineers unlocked, PVE combat is pretty tame. Open gameplay and the possibility of PVP at any time adds a huge amount of spice and excitement, and helps Elite live up to its "dangerous" moniker.

Oh, and the Dangerous thing has been done to death, so you're coming across trollish now.

Sir David himself said that the Dangerous refers to the rank, not to some hypothetical dystopian element of lawlessness. If it were really as you imply, you'd never get into an Imperial/Federal Coriolis with any significant amount of bounties. They'd be scanning every ship that asked for docking, and blowing you away as soon as you got within range.

 

[DaggerSnake]

A new player here, about 6 weeks into my time in Elite. So apologies if this is repetitious, but it's something that's been on my mind.

I'd really like to have some dialogue with players who mainly play in Open, but who get angry / upset when they encounter the sort of "rogue commanders who have betrayed the Pilots Federation" described on the game's website, i.e. gankers and pirates.

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

And most importantly, how often does it actually happen that you have a cooperative (non-PVP), spontaneous emergent experience in Open? Does that actually happen? I honestly don't know.

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction. It turns out that was a very small price to pay to open a door to a huge amount of progression and expert guidance. I wasn't mad about it at the time, and I'm tremendously grateful now, once I realized just how complex and involved making positive progress in this game can be.

Accepting the friend request from the player with the crazy looking Holo-Me was the smartest thing I did in my first few hours in the game, as it turns out.

I've been an avid player since launch. I play in Open most of the time, unless I'm on a time constraint and there is the possibility I need to log off unexpectedly. PvP in open can be awesome and spontaneous. Some of the best gameplay there is. The first big Battle of Lugh (sp?) still has fond memories for me. Or trying to run shipments past blockaders in multiple community goals (man I miss those). I've met some really fun Pirates and roll played some epic encounters. I've been on both sides of the hardpoints. I've also had great times meeting new players that just want to do things like explore alien ruins or go find the colony ships together. I've had people ask in a station if there's anyone who wants to wing up and take down a pirate mission together. I've explored, traded and mined with others. There is a lot more to Elite than circling each other in a PvP meta match, and certainly more to it than sitting out side of an engineer and shooting new players. But the beauty is that everyone can play the way they want to. I don't agree with it, but I do appreciate that the freedom exists. There's a difference between players actively attempting use ingame behavior to frustrate a person outside of the game and players just having a good time being pirates or trying to blockade a system or a community goal. I don't think it's hard to tell whos who once you have experience. If I come across a player that is more about ruining the game than adding to it, I'll add them to the block list. It's actually pretty rare that I'll do that, but it happens. Over the years, my Open has become a perfect playground for me, which is kind of the best game to have.

 

[Chrystoph]

I mean, sure, if you also don't read, and just blindly click on things. But Elite strikes me as very much not a game for those who just blindly click on things. It will certainly teach you to pay careful attention to its button's labels, and this Open / PG / Solo screen is really just a preview of coming attractions, at that.

I mean, I certainly have my preferences, there's no doubt about that. But again - I want to understand how people participate in Open with the expectation that they somehow won't be subject to random PVP at any time. Since that is, in fact, what the mode promises to offer the possibility of. At any time, anywhere, with no explanation or justification whatsoever.

Your own OP states that you had a learning curve, yet you want to deny that same experience to other people?