Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand
- Thread starter Danquememe
- Start date
That never gets oldHaha ship go boom
First off, though by your calculus I must be a bully, I want to say that based on what you wrote earlier in this thread, about your social anxiety, that I do appreciate it was probably a little nerve-wracking to write this post. For my part, I appreciate you sharing your perspectives in this thread - I know there may be a real emotional cost for doing so. Thank you.
The willingness of FDev to push PVPers and PVP co-opers into the same mode and then say that it's a free for all and provide nearly meaningless punishments is something worth recognizing. I'd also like the recognize the huge amounts of time this game demands on meaningless, repetitive, truly grinding tasks, just to progress.
As much as I enjoy playing Elite, and I enjoy its community - including you! - I feel that there are some arguably toxic design choices literally coded into the game. It is harsh and player-hostile in many ways. Things you can find in other games that are meant to ease the player experience and make it enjoyable for more people - not just the calloused sort - simply don't exist in the game.
I've written how I personally enjoy the rough and tumble nature of Open, and the players I find there. It definitely takes a fairly hardened attitude if you're going to be regularly engaging in combat - you are going to get beaten, and frequently, until you learn the skills needed to survive. Regardless of whether you choose to play as lawful or outlaw. This is a reality if you choose to play in that mode, and gankers are the first to point out that, as consequence, it definitely isn't for everyone.
For those for whom the rough and tumble of open is just too much, I really do hope they find ways - using System chat, or using out-of-game tools like these forums, Reddit, Discord and similar - to find like-minded folks with whom they can have their more wholesome, pacifist experiences. The game is so vast and barren that regardless of our playstyle, we basically have to do that anyways.
So TLDR - I hope you find your way of enjoying the game, and people who enjoy it in that way with you. I get where you are coming from, and hear you. You're not wrong - it takes a certain callousness to play this way, a lack of concern for your own in-game "life" as well as the in-game lives of others. PVP and ganking -oriented players do not, as far as I've experienced, wish the players controlling those in-game characters evil, but that is a distinction without a difference for some, maybe including you.
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I hate to repeat myself but here goes.
It's simply mindset. ED really is a blank canvas, it allows (mainly) all possibilities. If you come to the blank canvas with a sketch in mind, the blankness already has some shading on it, so you might come with an explorer's mindset and see the vastness to travel through, you might see opponents springing up from the canvas, you might see cooperation with others, all on the same blank canvas.
Some come to that canvas with their pre-shading work done (in their mind) and start putting down more determined lines, fleshing out some detail and never look back. Thus the sketch in their mind becomes the 'reality'.
Others start drawing and they have a moment where another hand comes in and adds some new lines. At that point, you either accept that you're not the only one drawing on the canvas, or you become more determined that your sketch is the true one. You object to the other hand. Everyone gets to point at the blank canvas and say but look at the preliminary shading that was done, but it was never there, it was a blank canvas, the shading was in your mind. The shading was possible but so were all the others. The makers of the canvas can be quoted as describing all the different things you could draw on the canvas, so everybody feels they are right.
It's simply mindset. ED really is a blank canvas, it allows (mainly) all possibilities. If you come to the blank canvas with a sketch in mind, the blankness already has some shading on it, so you might come with an explorer's mindset and see the vastness to travel through, you might see opponents springing up from the canvas, you might see cooperation with others, all on the same blank canvas.
Some come to that canvas with their pre-shading work done (in their mind) and start putting down more determined lines, fleshing out some detail and never look back. Thus the sketch in their mind becomes the 'reality'.
Others start drawing and they have a moment where another hand comes in and adds some new lines. At that point, you either accept that you're not the only one drawing on the canvas, or you become more determined that your sketch is the true one. You object to the other hand. Everyone gets to point at the blank canvas and say but look at the preliminary shading that was done, but it was never there, it was a blank canvas, the shading was in your mind. The shading was possible but so were all the others. The makers of the canvas can be quoted as describing all the different things you could draw on the canvas, so everybody feels they are right.
This was a really great analogy. Poetic, even!
Yes, very well said indeed. Post of thread, probably.
My drawings always get a bit out of hand.
it's all that "chicken" in your diet.
Its free range and corn fed at time of capture- totally good for me. Its those secret herbs and spices that do it though.
My 'name' comes from Red Dwarf- there was a spoof news show in an early episode that mentions 'Rubber nuclear weapons'- I found it funny and took it. In 'real life' a rubbernuke is an overshoe used for radiological hazmat suits apparently.
Am I a bully Leper? Because most gankers are more like me than anything you've described.Well I've had a long hard think overnight and my conclusions will not please some, I tried to understand the griefer mentality, tried my hardest to find some semblance of decency to shine through the crud. It is there in many and that's a good thing, but for a few it's not there at all....and that's not good.
I hear often that the PvP people want the "challenge" of fighting a human oppenent because the Ai is predictable. That's understandable but the more I read of threads like this I see a common dark cloud and this is the part people won't like, a lot of you are bullies, I'll explain my reasoning (and yes there's the caveat of BGS and PvP, but even then communication to explain "why" would be that sliver of light in the cloud of murk):
It's about having power over another person, if it was about "challenge" you would not attack weaker targets.
every time you attack a weaker target for no other reason than "your" fun you are a bully
every time you say you don't care about your target you re-inforce the fact you are a bully.
if you enjoy the "salt" you are 100% a bully.
There's 2 types of bully IMO, those who were bullied themselves so have learnt to bully to try and feel better, they deserve a bit of pity. Then you have those who were never bullied and just enjoy the power over another person, it's how they get their kicks and fun......those types are truly repugnant IMO in all walks of life and thankfully rare. And before armchair psychologist read the internet and debunk my theory I have a counter for that. Make sure you read about "adult bullying". Also a one off reaction to being bullied is not "bullying", If it's pre-meditated behaviour it's bullying if it's a reaction then nope sorry. The defining element of what marks a bully is they are the instigators of negative social interaction. Fire the first shot and you're the bully in the vast majority of cases (not 100%, some outlying reasons should be taken into account, but if it's sustained behavioural traits displayed again and again and again then yup...bullying).
My own personal caveat to all this is I do agree that as the game stands this is how it is. It's FDs fault for designing the game this way and being so naive to think things like this wouldn't happen, and if it's what they want they they are complicite in the bullying behaviour.
I read it earlier in the thread and it's a simple concept that sums things up, it may be how the game is designed, it may be how the rules are but when it boils down to it......"It's just not cricket". If some of you can't understand that simple concept then it's a prety good sign you're a bully at heart.
If all you consider is "your" fun and enjoyment even at the expense of others in a game where combat is NOT the main focus (in principle) then you are a bully. So no more "but COD, but (insert MP name of game 99-100% focussed on combat here) responses please...not the same thing at all.
For the third (or is it fourth?) time I am going to vow to never get involved in a PvP thread. Hopefully I've finally learnt a lesson and this will be the last time. Sorry if I trod on some toes, thing is "I care" thus I'm a tad depressed this morning.
Are you? Seems like some of the stuff you've described would fit the criteria. You seem to like the idea of controlling people with your maths tests for example.
Depends on how the other person feels about it I suppose, maybe you just don't realise the impact you had on someone.
Yes...you big meanie. I mean, just read your sig.
I can speak personally. It was positive.
I can speak personally. It was positive.
But only for yourself. Maybe others had a different experience?
I don't think people that others may considers bullies, think of themselves as bullies, in much the same way that victims don't go around thinking of themselves as victims
Obviously not. But you know this. I know this. It's downright scandalous how many in the community don't though.
Why don't they?
The inability to seperate fantasy from reality is a good place to start. Then you've got the exceptional timidity when faced with alternative opinions.
It's all just so ridiculous. Go play the game and if anyone gives you a hard time for it that's their problem, not yours.