Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

Riverside

Riverside
Mohrgan said:
I believe you have disclosed enough to elevate the comment above just 'looking at the cover'. It's a funny time for you to go all bashful. I guess not all of your skin has been toughened by the rigors of open-only.
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Meh. I live near a river. It's coincidental but I don't hold it against people that make a connection :)
 

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
Mohrgan said:
I believe you have disclosed enough to elevate the comment above just 'looking at the cover'. It's a funny time for you to go all bashful. I guess not all of your skin has been toughened by the rigors of open-only.
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Coming from the guy that posts nothing but negative, hateful comments and has done literally nothing to help the community or have any kind of positive impact, it actually means nothing to me. Just thought you were better than that.
 

Mohrgan

Mohrgan
Sir Ganksalot said:
Coming from the guy that posts nothing but negative, hateful comments and has done literally nothing to help the community or have any kind of positive impact, it actually means nothing to me. Just thought you were better than that.
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Virtue Signaling. Nice. You might have to compare me to some fascist regime soon.
 

CMDR Valleys

C
Danquememe said:
An actual serious answer to the PVP question I've laid out elsewhere in this thread, but in summary: human opponents are all unique, even from engagement to engagement. They bring a creativity and variety that "bots" cannot replace.

Nearly all of the NPCs in Elite fight more-or-less identically to one another, with some pretty obvious variable-driven variety. They literally read your stick input and adjust to break aim, though if you reverski on them they'll stupidly follow, allowing easy shots. Two people can attack them and basically shut down their offensive capability as they get "stuck" trying to decide which to target, as their aggro continually resets. Basically, they aren't awful, but they're about as bad as typical flight sim AI, which means they are a far cry from a human opponent.

PVP encounters include everything from blowing up an E-rated Asp Explorer (or whatever) to full-on 15 minutes+ battles of attrition between equal opponents, where the one who makes the least mistakes will win. The encounters are frequently imbalanced in terms of skill and equipment, but actually dying to a PVP encounter - meaning, actually being able to kill someone before they get away - can be difficult once a player learns to build and fly their ship skillfully.

Uniquely to Elite - at least in my experience - is this attitude that PVP is "imposed" on players who just want to be left alone. I come from a combat flight sim background, as noted, and in those games, you attack whatever target you see, and if you can catch them unaware - and "bounce" them, killing them in a single pass - so much the better.

My understanding of the Elite universe, from the marketing materials, lead me to having the impression that it was more akin to a type of you-against-the-world "deathmatch" game than anything else. As in any game, you don't have to attack, but in Elite, the way the game presented itself was that you could be attacked anywhere, anytime - and vice versa.

And so I've played the game that way, and in fact my intention to play as a ganker was due to my desire to attack - and be attacked - as often as possible. So far, it's working out about how I expected, though I'll be honest that the strong hatred of this playstyle from some quarters has caught me a bit offguard. Thanks to this thread, I now better understand why that is the case, but I still do feel a bit of a disconnect from the viewpoint, if I'm being honest. It's not a lack of empathy, per se... because in fact, I know very well what it is to be ganked, and I have accepted that it will continue to happen to me as long as I play the game. It's more just a feeling that I'm accepting the game as it presents itself, rather than wishing it be something it isn't?

Of course, that last statement will anger people, and that is not my intention - it's more just my honest appraisal of the situation.
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All you mention above is spot on, the game is marketed and the game world is like you say a kill or be killed world in the populated systems anyway and as that’s the game-style you play by and enjoy then why change.
My expectations and play style Is more of a mission runner and I fit my ship to match which I engineer for PvE unlimited ammo and use a smaller ship. I’ve gotten to like the feeling of taking down the big ships and limping away.
Screemonster said:
I actually put off getting ED for the longest time because what I really wanted was something more like Privateer 2 - as in, a singleplayer game with an actual story, but with perhaps a more complex story than P2, along the lines of New Vegas. You know, where "I wanna know what happens if I do the other branch of that quest, time for a new playthrough" is a thing that happens. I'd love to see some proper branching missions happen in Elite, especially if they're generated so you can get a similar mission later (ie. the same quest with the names filed off) and take the other branch.
Honestly these sorts of progression quests would have been way more interesting for the engineer unlocks than "fetch me enough booze and cigars to resurrect Winston Churchill".
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I’m with you on this one, I’m hopping we’ll get something like this with the new expansion. They actually mention a revamped mission system as one of the selling points. I’m hoping their able to pull this off, the mission system has seen some major fluctuations since launch and never managed to match the original games from the 90’s! It would be cool to go down a detailed mission chain route with visible effects for the NPCs and factions.

here’s hoping for Odyssey o7
 

thistle

T
Sir Ganksalot said:
Coming from the guy that posts nothing but negative, hateful comments and has done literally nothing to help the community or have any kind of positive impact, it actually means nothing to me.
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Just noticed, there's that word again, "hateful".

Are there really any hateful comments in this thread? Or the forum? If there were, I suspect those posting would be banned?
 

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
thistle said:
Just noticed, there's that word again, "hateful".

Are there really any hateful comments in this thread? Or the forum? If there were, I suspect those posting would be banned?
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Absolutely, and from all sides. I know of one particular person that used to post quite regularly that every post was extremely toxic and hateful towards gankers. That person is no longer on the forums. I also have a screenshot of one of the most hateful comments I've ever seen but was removed.
There's also quite a few comments from my ganker brethren that have been very hateful. I save screenshots of all of it and have many that I could send you if you are that interested.

Not really in this thread though. This thread has been very different from most PvE vs ganker threads for the most part.
 

Bridgehouse

Bridgehouse
The marketing material (in my honest opinion) makes it very clear what this game is about - infinite choices.
Right from the macro to the micro - you can choose to play in unlimited ways, and Frontier have never sought to restrict that.

When you launch the game you have choices - Open, Private Group, or Solo. All have different outcomes, different experiences. There are so many star systems that nobody could actually visit all of them. Frontier have put a lot of stuff into the game to facilitate those infinite choices. Now, some is sheer brilliance, and some is worthy of derision - but it's a mix.

And thus it is when I come to play. Sometimes I drop into solo so I can concentrate on a mission, or some other content. Sometimes a private group for some PvE with friends. Sometimes Open...

And even then, I have unlimited choices. I could go to quiet systems and explore. I could choose an out and out combat PvP build and go looking for it..

Let's say I come across a player who wants to fight. Again, choices.. I could choose to avoid or run, I could choose to fight. For me, learning and gettin' gud (as it were) is about learning the right choice at the right time.

If someone wants to make the choice to hang around in Open and go look for as much PvP as they want to then that's up to them - that's the choice they are making. Frontier have given them that choice, and no individual player has any more right than any other to cry foul just because of a choice made by another player. Start restricting those choices and you rip the heart out of the game.

I spend some time in Open, some in Solo and a lot in Private Group. In Open, sometimes I like PvP, sometimes just a bit of social. Either way, having someone pick a fight when I'm not in the mood isn't their problem. I make some choices and deal with it how I want to.

You can't have your cake and eat it - either you accept that the game delivers a totally free form non linear play style that allows unlimited choices and thus ganking is just as valid as any other choice, or expecting someone will change their play style means you accept that at some point something you enjoy doing will be restricted or stopped somehow....
 

Riverside

Riverside
Bridgehouse said:
The marketing material (in my honest opinion) makes it very clear what this game is about - infinite choices.
Right from the macro to the micro - you can choose to play in unlimited ways, and Frontier have never sought to restrict that.

When you launch the game you have choices - Open, Private Group, or Solo. All have different outcomes, different experiences. There are so many star systems that nobody could actually visit all of them. Frontier have put a lot of stuff into the game to facilitate those infinite choices. Now, some is sheer brilliance, and some is worthy of derision - but it's a mix.

And thus it is when I come to play. Sometimes I drop into solo so I can concentrate on a mission, or some other content. Sometimes a private group for some PvE with friends. Sometimes Open...

And even then, I have unlimited choices. I could go to quiet systems and explore. I could choose an out and out combat PvP build and go looking for it..

Let's say I come across a player who wants to fight. Again, choices.. I could choose to avoid or run, I could choose to fight. For me, learning and gettin' gud (as it were) is about learning the right choice at the right time.

If someone wants to make the choice to hang around in Open and go look for as much PvP as they want to then that's up to them - that's the choice they are making. Frontier have given them that choice, and no individual player has any more right than any other to cry foul just because of a choice made by another player. Start restricting those choices and you rip the heart out of the game.

I spend some time in Open, some in Solo and a lot in Private Group. In Open, sometimes I like PvP, sometimes just a bit of social. Either way, having someone pick a fight when I'm not in the mood isn't their problem. I make some choices and deal with it how I want to.

You can't have your cake and eat it - either you accept that the game delivers a totally free form non linear play style that allows unlimited choices and thus ganking is just as valid as any other choice, or expecting someone will change their play style means you accept that at some point something you enjoy doing will be restricted or stopped somehow....
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Yes exactly. Play your own way, let them play theirs.
 

Danquememe

Danquememe
Bridgehouse said:
The marketing material (in my honest opinion) makes it very clear what this game is about - infinite choices.
Right from the macro to the micro - you can choose to play in unlimited ways, and Frontier have never sought to restrict that.

When you launch the game you have choices - Open, Private Group, or Solo. All have different outcomes, different experiences. There are so many star systems that nobody could actually visit all of them. Frontier have put a lot of stuff into the game to facilitate those infinite choices. Now, some is sheer brilliance, and some is worthy of derision - but it's a mix.

And thus it is when I come to play. Sometimes I drop into solo so I can concentrate on a mission, or some other content. Sometimes a private group for some PvE with friends. Sometimes Open...

And even then, I have unlimited choices. I could go to quiet systems and explore. I could choose an out and out combat PvP build and go looking for it..

Let's say I come across a player who wants to fight. Again, choices.. I could choose to avoid or run, I could choose to fight. For me, learning and gettin' gud (as it were) is about learning the right choice at the right time.

If someone wants to make the choice to hang around in Open and go look for as much PvP as they want to then that's up to them - that's the choice they are making. Frontier have given them that choice, and no individual player has any more right than any other to cry foul just because of a choice made by another player. Start restricting those choices and you rip the heart out of the game.

I spend some time in Open, some in Solo and a lot in Private Group. In Open, sometimes I like PvP, sometimes just a bit of social. Either way, having someone pick a fight when I'm not in the mood isn't their problem. I make some choices and deal with it how I want to.

You can't have your cake and eat it - either you accept that the game delivers a totally free form non linear play style that allows unlimited choices and thus ganking is just as valid as any other choice, or expecting someone will change their play style means you accept that at some point something you enjoy doing will be restricted or stopped somehow....
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My god, what a wonderful post and contribution to this thread. Sincere thank you!

I mean, it doesn't hurt that I completely agree with literally every word written. It's just the facts, stated so plainly, like a beacon of light in a fog of confusion.

I don't want to wax even more florid than that, but, sincerely: well done.
 
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