Question to STO players

Falkenherz

Falkenherz
I never played Star Trek Online, but I have read that they have space ship combat and fps ground missions blended together, much like Elite announced to have with a second expansion. According to my research, STO is the only MMO who has space and ground combat woven together (I do not count SWTOR´s entirely separate mini game, which is not really linked to the overall campaign and gameplay).

So, what I wanted to ask players of STO, what they liked about STO and what they would like to see in comparision in E:D, e.g. how could it be done better here, which good ideas should be taken over, etc.

I am very interested, as I do not have the time to try out every game out there myself. It used to be possible in the 90s, where everybody knew and had played all major titles, but nowadays there is just too much out there!
 

ScottGust

ScottGust
Falkenherz said:
I never played Star Trek Online, but I have read that they have space ship combat and fps ground missions blended together, much like Elite announced to have with a second expansion. According to my research, STO is the only MMO who has space and ground combat woven together (I do not count SWTOR´s entirely separate mini game, which is not really linked to the overall campaign and gameplay).

So, what I wanted to ask players of STO, what they liked about STO and what they would like to see in comparision in E:D, e.g. how could it be done better here, which good ideas should be taken over, etc.

I am very interested, as I do not have the time to try out every game out there myself. It used to be possible in the 90s, where everybody knew and had played all major titles, but nowadays there is just too much out there!
Click to expand...


Youll get the best information by reading the DDA...and never forget...ED luvs YOU XXOO
 

govny

govny
space combat is very good, but strategic orientated, like naval battle in space, competly different from Elite.
Ground combat is squad based and similar to an MMO gameplay.
I like it, but I think that it is veriry differen from what Elite will be.
 

Snowdog

S
There was very little to like about STO, it's just OK. I have owned it since beta and played it for a few months. The space ship to planet transition is like 2 different games. It is a very sad implementation of a great IP.. but a similar comment could be made about Mech Worrier Online.. sad implementation of a great IP (intellectual property)

Elite is already a much better game than both of them and still only in beta.
 

TheDoctor

TheDoctor
The whole star trek online story is that of delays and cancellations.

The original game was cancelled, nobody wanted the IP to fit in with their online games and so in the end Cryptic picked it up and slapped a Star Trek skin onto Champions Online.

They even had commands from Champions that you could change weapon beam colours until they were locked down.

I played it at launch and apart from the Star Trek name there really isn't anything to set the world aflame.
 

Toumal

Toumal
Actually the ground missions in STO is what I think Star Citizen's ground stuff will turn out to be like: A finite set of predetermined, walled-in locations.
 

Daeron

Daeron
I like the tactical space battles and the away team functionality of STO. None of which ED will have. But then again ED comes with a real universe, instead of those stagnant shoeboxes STO puts you into. When they removed the exploration clusters, the only non-stagnant content in (official game) existence, the air went out of that balloon so fast, it was scary. I haven't logged in since. ;)

I don't know what ED could use, shared ground objectives maybe, against some bothersome factions out there. Maybe some mini-mechs to go with that? :D
 

Falkenherz

Falkenherz
Thanks for the replies, but this is not what I wanted to know. I know very well that STO is a totally different game. That is why I was focusing on the merge between space and planetary gameplay, only.

I want to know about "goods" and "bads" from players´ experience, which would be useful to know for paying attention to in the context of Elite.
 

Alien

Alien
Falkenherz said:
Thanks for the replies, but this is not what I wanted to know. I know very well that STO is a totally different game. That is why I was focusing on the merge between space and planetary gameplay, only.
Click to expand...

There is no "merge" that can be compared to ED. I played STO for a bit. As was said above, the space part and ground part, are literally two different games. ED will (eventually) have seamless planetary landings, STO does not have that. There is no comparison.

All this aside, STO isn't even that good. in my opinion, they should have had you command your ship from the bridge, not fly it in 3rd person view with a chase-cam.
 

StarTux

S
Basically you fly towards planet, a text box will appear which you select. Another one appears where you can select your away team, and then you're on the surface of some canned mission.

You can create your own missions in the Foundry, but space and ground combat is completely separate, even entering your own ship brings up another instance and you have to get to this through another menu item.

The good is that it can feel like you're playing a Star Trek episode, the bad is that it super easy, super grindy, you don't have to really think as mission objects sparkle and glow. Its "F2P" with a big cash shop and items locked away in boxes, people have stated they've spent hundreds, sometimes thousands just to get a ship.

Its the only up to date Star Trek out there, but as a space game its awful, exploration is another shoe box with semi-random locations to visit where the PG is done poorly.
 

Falkenherz

Falkenherz
I assume that STO you will beam down to the planet. So what, this is seamless, too, from the games lore background.

Let me give examples of what I want to know:

- I understand that STO had only instanced small areas available for ground-based gameplay. This might be what Elite should and will do better?

- Ground Combat seems to be not very satisfying in STO. Why? What should Elite do better? If it is only the followers of STO, well, Elite does not have them, has it? Or should we have followers, similiar as to having the confirmed escorts in space?

- How is the combat model? Is it WoW-ish? FPS? Good or bad impressions from STO about it? What should Elite´s combat look like?

- Is space or ground exploration possible in STO? Good or bad impressions, what could Elite do better?

- Weapons, armor, avatars; what is good what is bad in STO, how could Elite do it better?

- Mission design; any good ideas which we would like to see in Elite, too?


Well, I guess I probably have to play STO myself to find out...
 

EAGLE 5

EAGLE 5
I love STO though lately has gathered a lot of dust on my machine.

The main thing about it is that the game is essentially two games in one. A space game where large scale naval battles happen (though PVP duels exist) and an away team game. Elite is slated to become both in one by having the space component blend with the ground component when that happens so that you don't feel like you're playing two distinctively separate games. My only gripe about STO is that the instancing an get rather insane with literally hundreds of players crowding up small areas. DS9 and Earth Spacedock is plain chaos with ships and captains running about to do their thing. I usually end up going to a less populated instance just to have some sort of semblance of sanity. That said I do love the fact that instances are listed and display the numbers of active players and you can choose which one to populate in. My other gripe is that the game at times goes way off course with the canon and as a trekkie that bothers me some. For example my Federation captain is a Cardassian flying a refitted Galor Ship... for the Federation .. wait wut?

Overall STO is great fun but Elite will be much better because it won't be affected by what I think are STO's weaknesses.
 

Exo

E
I really enjoyed quite a bit about STO. Although the space engine more than the ground.

I've always had issues with ground combat and ground based games that aren't vaguely realism based -> Operation Flashpoint, ArmA, Hidden and Dangerous, Rainbow 6 (early ones).

Skill based, in which it doesn't take 34 phaser blasts to make the other person fall over and you don't recharge your health in 10 seconds just because people aren't shooting at you at the moment.

Most of the ground missions were grindy and tedious. There were a few gems, particularly in story driven elements. However, I tended to use ground elements in STO as purely social ones, whenever I attempted RP, or just fancied chatting randomly to people.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Jenner
I tried STO off and on a few times. Never kept me for long. It is grindy and the ground combat/away missions are the weakest link, imho.

Space combat is ok at best. Pretty, though, at least for when it was made.

The mini-story arcs are somewhat interesting and I give them props for at least trying, but really...it all feels a bit hollow and way too combat-centric for Star Trek.

I will say that they did a fine job sticking in lots of lore. :)
 

Falkenherz

Falkenherz
Gah, you drive me crazy!

So:

- Ground and space feel like separate games in STO. How can this be avoided in Elite? Just by being able to land on a landing pad? Is this enough to make it feel better? Do in consequence we want to jump into a ground transporter and drive for hours to really find the mission area? Should we always be able to land right next to the enemy "cave" and start shooting? How long will descend and atmospheric flight be? Instant beaming seems to be rather an advantage from this perspective of gameplay.

- Combat in STO is grindy; how so? It seems also too unrealistic because of 37+ laserhits required and instant health regeneration? I had a lot of fun in ME3 and these factors were not a problem. Is the movement and shooting perhaps too stiff, how so?

See what I mean? While it is easy to criticise something it is less easy to learn lessons from things. I want to make sure that mistakes are not repeated, so pls help discuss important game mechanics.

I know it is far in advance, but better start early during early design process than too late.


Edit: Nevermind, mods have put this into the "other games" forum, so the effort seems to be wasted anyways. This was intended to be about Elite and not STO.
 
Last edited:

StarTux

S
Falkenherz said:
Gah, you drive me crazy!

So:

- Ground and space feel like separate games in STO. How can this be avoided in Elite? Just by being able to land on a landing pad? Is this enough to make it feel better? Do in consequence we want to jump into a ground transporter and drive for hours to really find the mission area? Should we always be able to land right next to the enemy "cave" and start shooting? How long will descend and atmospheric flight be? Instant beaming seems to be rather an advantage from this perspective of gameplay.
Click to expand...

From what I think will could be like this: We'll land, just as we do now, however we'll be able to hit a key, stand up and then voila! We''re in first person walk-about mode, this will likely not show any loading screen in between and will be first person. First, we'll be able to walk around inside the ships, like we can do in Star Citizen, and then also open areas, such as access points to leave the ship, walk down a ramp, decide to visit a bar and maybe pick up the latest gossip, or even find a passenger who wants to to another world. It is quite endless in possibilities. All of this will still have to be accessible to those without the expansion, so I doubt it will change the accessibility.

I suspect with smuggling onto a planet you may have to drive a bit, not necessarily hours to put space between your ship and the goods. To pick up someone up legally from lets say, a hunting lodge I suspect the landing pad would be close. On the other hand, smuggling out (or indeed in) those people who are disrupting the hunting will likely require a lot more discretion.

Elite will be about bringing a future in Space to life, not just to make a grindy type of game like STO with lockboxes and more grind in creating a space station or mining area through different tiers. STO does well with the episodic feeling, but I have never felt like I was in some future space as there is little immersion.

- Combat in STO is grindy; how so? It seems also too unrealistic because of 37+ laserhits required and instant health regeneration? I had a lot of fun in ME3 and these factors were not a problem. Is the movement and shooting perhaps too stiff, how so?
Click to expand...

Never really felt it was too grindy, maybe a bit shallow.

See what I mean? While it is easy to criticise something it is less easy to learn lessons from things. I want to make sure that mistakes are not repeated, so pls help discuss important game mechanics.


I know it is far in advance, but better start early during early design process than too late.
Click to expand...

We're not doing that, and won't ever be. This goes to David Braben and then to his design team before it even gets put forth as a proposal to the design decision forum members to mull over, chew and offer suggestions.

They are not just going to tack different parts of different games on, rather they will see what works in other games that will actually work in Elite.

Edit: Nevermind, mods have put this into the "other games" forum, so the effort seems to be wasted anyways. This was intended to be about Elite and not STO.
Click to expand...

Well, your title is misleading and the whole premise seems to be around STO, which really isn't a good game to compare Elite to, they're both so completely different. Watch some of No Man's Sky footage to get an idea of what we expect from Elite.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom