PvP Questions On the Kraits.. Mostly the Phantom

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

I am just now using them for PVP..I am really liking the phantom. However I don't quite see where this ships will perform at their respective peaks. I find getting the right balance of resistances and raw MJ's hard on these ships without having massive recharge times and what feels like to me poor performance. I feel like I will use the Phantom much like a Chieftain or FAS as a Bi Weave Hybrid. Tho I have seen a few MK 2 Kraits running around as shield tanks but running a fighter bay makes you have little hull if you plan on running more then one SCB..

I plan on rebuilding my Mk 2 for thargoid combat and instead opting to use the Phantom and I really want to know what people have found out that actually works on these ships.

My Build idea is
Armor:Reactive Thermal Deep Plate
Plant:Armored Thermal spread
Thrusters: Dirty Drag
Power Distro: Charged Enhanced Super Conduits.

6 bi weave Thermal fast charge with 2 RA Super Cap boosters (426mj)
2 5D Heavy Duty Deep plate
2 3D Heavy Duty Deep plate
5D MRP and 3D Mrp
2A Interdictor

Dual Chaff

2 3B Efficient PA's TLB and Dispersal
2 2B Long range Feed back rails

Total Hull 3140HP Absolute EX 41% Ken 42% Thermal 42%
Total Shields 426MJ Absolute Ex 63.6% 47.6% Thermal 56.4%

https://s.orbis.zone/17fm

Looks okay on paper but I feel like the shields\hull are lacking on it. Is there any way to improve this?
Over all I am kinda using it Like a large FAS\Chieftain. With the Krait being so large is this a bad idea??
I did HD Hull and a thermal HRP on my FAS to make it a tank! but I seem to have issues getting a good balance with these Kraits.

 

[AP Birdman]

I've been tearing shiz up with this build.

I think it's always better to go lightweight with armor and make 1 hull reinforcement thermal resist cause you get a lot more speed.

https://s.orbis.zone/17ga

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

I've been tearing shiz up with this build.

I think it's always better to go lightweight with armor and make 1 hull reinforcement thermal resist cause you get a lot more speed.

https://s.orbis.zone/17ga

Whoa I love how you did that shields! Totally robbing it!

 

[dfgqsb]

I'm running 2 SRB pa's instead of 2 EFF pa's, and it works for me. Phantom have good enough heat cap/heat dissipation to handle 2 pa volleys in a row/1 pa volley + 1 rail volley.

As for the defense part, I think your configuration is ideal for a hybrid build. I'm using HD reactive bulkhead + a smallest thermal resistance HRP combo, I have only a small amount of absolute hull health over yours, but 3 m/s slower and slightly worse overall resistance. Not something noticeable.
But I'm not very sure about how good it is for other defense configurations. On paper, both bi-weave + SCB build and prismatic build have excellent raw MJ, but with much lower agility, only 4 utility slots and the very short boost period, I doubt they would out perform an FDL in a similar build.

Overall, my early impression is that Phantom is very good at 1v1, due to the class 7 distributor + class 6 shield combo (for non-SCB hybrid build) and it's flat shape. But I don't think it ideal for wing fights since it's much less evasive than FAS/Chieftain, not to say an FDL.

 

[AP Birdman]

I'm running 2 SRB pa's instead of 2 EFF pa's, and it works for me. Phantom have good enough heat cap/heat dissipation to handle 2 pa volleys in a row/1 pa volley + 1 rail volley.

As for the defense part, I think your configuration is ideal for a hybrid build. I'm using HD reactive bulkhead + a smallest thermal resistance HRP combo, I have only a small amount of absolute hull health over yours, but 3 m/s slower and slightly worse overall resistance. Not something noticeable.
But I'm not very sure about how good it is for other defense configurations. On paper, both bi-weave + SCB build and prismatic build have excellent raw MJ, but with much lower agility, only 4 utility slots and the very short boost period, I doubt they would out perform an FDL in a similar build.

Overall, my early impression is that Phantom is very good at 1v1, due to the class 7 distributor + class 6 shield combo (for non-SCB hybrid build) and it's flat shape. But I don't think it ideal for wing fights since it's much less evasive than FAS/Chieftain, not to say an FDL.

I've actually heard of quite a few players switching to SRB on the PA's, I just haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

I've actually been thinking of trying long range or focused specifically on the phantom because it's poor pitch rate makes it difficult to hit fast ships at close range.

I fought my buddy in his mamba last night and as soon as he got in close enough for me to fire, the target lead would fly past so fast I could barely get a shot off.
I think if I had the ability to hit him at 2km it would make it a lot easier.

 

[dfgqsb]

I've actually heard of quite a few players switching to SRB on the PA's, I just haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

I've actually been thinking of trying long range or focused specifically on the phantom because it's poor pitch rate makes it difficult to hit fast ships at close range.

I fought my buddy in his mamba last night and as soon as he got in close enough for me to fire, the target lead would fly past so fast I could barely get a shot off.
I think if I had the ability to hit him at 2km it would make it a lot easier.

Yeah many people started to go for SRB for its crazy damage, and the downside of SRB now can be worked with or simply ignored. Let me explain my theory about this (in general, not specifically for Phantom):

Downsides
1, The +50% heat is painful, and would definitely make your loadout a "hot build", but since the basic principle for a high alpha damage build is to reduce the ToT on both sides and utilize the advantage of "one hit and run" tactic. That means in most cases, you would only have the chance to fire once, twice at most for each pass in the joust, so as long as that one or two shots won't cook you badly, the heat issue can be ignored.
Of course it would be a butt hurt when your target is sitting still, the heat would prevent you from firing constantly, but for me, I think it's a reasonable compromise.
Btw, mixing SRB and EFF pa's is part of my solution for heat, i use 3 EFF and 1 SRB on my fas, and the heat is not a problem at all.

2, The 50% range reduction along with more intense damage falloff curve is simply not a problem for me.
The reasons are kind of weird:
first, if im fighting someone with decent skill, it's actually really easy for him to dodge a 875m/s projectile from 2km range, even if he is in a big ship (The only chance to hit is that my shots become invisible to him, but it's a bug so let's just ignore it), i have to get really close like less than 1km before i fire for a guaranteed hit. At that range, SRB is not affected by it's range reduction at all;
second, if im fighting someone not that gud, the tactic for decent pilots still works, maybe i can use something else to get a better victory, but i would love to prepare for tougher targets (another reasonable compromise for me).

Merits
1, dat carzy alpha damage of course, it hits even harder than an OC pa.
2, The DPE is quite decent. It's not as crazy as EFF (125% increase), but it's decent enough (75% increase). (That's part of the reason why i don't like OC pa that much, about 25% dpe increase)

But as you mentioned, Phantom has weaker turn rate so i did feel the struggle while aiming at very close range, the boost timing just need to be extremely perfect to compensate that, since the boost is really short. Need to fight more in my Phantom to get a better conclusion.

p.s. iirc, you are on console so my solutions may be quite useless for you, but i believe you know this better than me.

Oh, almost forgot, i haven't tried lr/focused pa's on Phantom but i think that's a good idea, will definitely give it a go.

 

[Morbad]

I think it's always better to go lightweight with armor and make 1 hull reinforcement thermal resist cause you get a lot more speed.

Not on the Kraits you don't, because they barely reach above minimum thruster mass, even with the heavier bulkheads.

The difference between lightweight and thermal resistant is ~6m/s on your setup.

 

[Treptower Park]

Oh thats most interesting. I have a pair of each FOC, EFF, LR and OC for my Viper and Chief. They all have their uses.
Will pay a visit to Bill for some SRB PAs too. Could you elaborate on the term DPE, please? I read it a couple times but the concept is still unclear to me.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Oh thats most interesting. I have a pair of each FOC, EFF, LR and OC for my Viper and Chief. They all have their uses.
Will pay a visit to Bill for some SRB PAs too. Could you elaborate on the term DPE, please? I read it a couple times but the concept is still unclear to me.

Damage Per Energy I think? A measurement of how much capacitor drain each hit costs you more or less

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

I'm running 2 SRB pa's instead of 2 EFF pa's, and it works for me. Phantom have good enough heat cap/heat dissipation to handle 2 pa volleys in a row/1 pa volley + 1 rail volley.

As for the defense part, I think your configuration is ideal for a hybrid build. I'm using HD reactive bulkhead + a smallest thermal resistance HRP combo, I have only a small amount of absolute hull health over yours, but 3 m/s slower and slightly worse overall resistance. Not something noticeable.
But I'm not very sure about how good it is for other defense configurations. On paper, both bi-weave + SCB build and prismatic build have excellent raw MJ, but with much lower agility, only 4 utility slots and the very short boost period, I doubt they would out perform an FDL in a similar build.

Overall, my early impression is that Phantom is very good at 1v1, due to the class 7 distributor + class 6 shield combo (for non-SCB hybrid build) and it's flat shape. But I don't think it ideal for wing fights since it's much less evasive than FAS/Chieftain, not to say an FDL.

I was curious to the SRBs i have a pair of large ones that I used on my cheiftan (with a force cannon ;] ) so what you are saying is it should handle it? Would I want to run low emmissions plant? Or the armored thermal should be fine? I love my SRBs because like most guys I shoot close!

 

[dfgqsb]

Oh thats most interesting. I have a pair of each FOC, EFF, LR and OC for my Viper and Chief. They all have their uses.
Will pay a visit to Bill for some SRB PAs too. Could you elaborate on the term DPE, please? I read it a couple times but the concept is still unclear to me.

Damage per Energy yeah, basically it measures how efficient your weapons are, in terms of raw damage(without considering damage falloff, resistance/damage type and armor rating).
For example, an unmodded c3 pulse does 6 raw damage per shot, and it draws 0.86mw energy from your distributor per shot, so it has 6/0.86=6.97 DPE.

Usually comparing 2 weapons with DPE only, and saying one is more efficient than the other, is not correct, since damage falloff, resistance/damage type and armor rating are not taken into consideration.
But here for PA, all variables are fixed: no matter what you do to a PA, it always have enough armor piercing to negate the armor rating of all flyable ships; it will always have same mixed damage type of thermal, kinetic and absolute; the damage falloff doesn't matter since my premise is to fire within 1km, and the damage falloff simply hasn't started yet. As a result, here I would consider a PA have higher DPE is better, efficiency wise.

A measurement of how much capacitor drain each hit costs you more or less

Emmmm very close, but I think it's "each damage", not "each hit"...
(given it a second thought, doesn't "capacitor drain each hit costs you" means "distributor draw"? )

 

[dfgqsb]

I was curious to the SRBs i have a pair of large ones that I used on my cheiftan (with a force cannon ;] ) so what you are saying is it should handle it? Would I want to run low emmissions plant? Or the armored thermal should be fine? I love my SRBs because like most guys I shoot close!

Yeah, the heat is fine, and so is the distributor. I'm currently using a C6 armored PP with thermal spread, it only gets a little spicy when my shield is down, but quite spicy if I fire non-stop (usually I would avoid this), so in general only very minor heat damage if I don't do anything stupid.
So I would say an armored PP is enough to get the job done, but a LE PP would definitely improve your heat management, and allow you to do more crazy stuff.

Oh almost forgot, I use 2 large SRB PA's and 2 hammers.

 

[Havvk]

Phantoms might be better as a silent running build. I mean how can you not with a name like "Phantom"?


Come on people, you know you want to. Get creative and cheeky. I want to see some cheese stealthy boi phantoms out there tearing stuff up and blipping out the instant they shoot, like they we never there to begin with

 

[dfgqsb]

Phantoms might be better as a silent running build. I mean how can you not with a name like "Phantom"?


Come on people, you know you want to. Get creative and cheeky. I want to see some cheese stealthy boi phantoms out there tearing stuff up and blipping out the instant they shoot, like they we never there to begin with

The heat capacity is good this I can confirm.

BUT, something something emissive, something something showing up on radar after firing, something something massive heat after boost and firing weapons, and the NEW something something night vision is finally invented in 3304 are making silent running builds not that popular.

 

[Havvk]

The heat capacity is good this I can confirm.

BUT, something something emissive, something something showing up on radar after firing, something something massive heat after boost and firing weapons, and the NEW something something night vision is finally invented in 3304 are making silent running builds not that popular.

While true, being able to not be locked onto reaaaaaly helps as you'd have to be some really eagle-eyed aimbotting crack shot to hit anything moving while FA-off without using the target lock leader for fixed weapons.


Well...assuming that the attacker isn't using hitscan. Baaahh come on FDev give stealth some love!!!

 

[dfgqsb]

While true, being able to not be locked onto reaaaaaly helps as you'd have to be some really eagle-eyed aimbotting crack shot to hit anything moving while FA-off without using the target lock leader for fixed weapons.


Well...assuming that the attacker isn't using hitscan. Baaahh come on FDev give stealth some love!!!

They hate anything without a shield.