You had my respect before this situation jabokai and you've gained more since. See War, I don't hate all Alpha backers!!
Quit backing and seek a refund?
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You had my respect before this situation jabokai and you've gained more since. See War, I don't hate all Alpha backers!!
Excellent post mate, have some rep.
Don't sweat it!
Anyways, yea, I may be in the minority there... I was in most other games I played (imagine being a philantropist in EVE
)... BUT, aside from the poor handling of the issue on FDs part, I still think the stink the whole affair produces is a bit disproportioned to the actual issues at hand.If anything, people should - in a respectful way - ask for clearification from FD, before publicly crucifying them on the general forums...
@KING5TON: Yea well, jabokai and Juniper are gods among men, easy to like them... just kidding.
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Don't sweat it!
Anyways, yea, I may be in the minority there... I was in most other games I played (imagine being a philantrope in EVE
If anything, people should - in a respectful way - ask for clearification from FD, before publicly crucifying them on the general forums...
I agree 100% on that War, I, and others, have asked, in a roundabout way sometimes, for FD to do just that. Some of the debate has been disproportional - on both sides - which is why, with one exception that I apologised for, have tried to stay calm, debate it maturely and concede points when I am wrong or the other persons point is undeniable. I just wish some of the others, on both sides, were capable of the same.
Don't sweat it!
Anyways, yea, I may be in the minority there... I was in most other games I played (imagine being a philantrope in EVE
If anything, people should - in a respectful way - ask for clearification from FD, before publicly crucifying them on the general forums...
@KING5TON: Yea well, jabokai and Juniper are gods among men, easy to like them... just kidding.
Crucifying?
You've no idea.
Go on a popular game's forums and look at the posts, there's people calling for Devs to loose their jobs due to bugs or death threats due to balancing changes in the game's weapons. These forums are a Vicar's tea party compared to other forums.
p.s. You'll look back at this time with fondness once the flood gates open and the general public get involved
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All beta backers have been told is that "beta will start when alpha is finished". All through the delay (which we've generally been very patient and self-regulating about) this was all the news we got. That's no longer the case, now it's a case of beta will staggered while old, new and future alphas get "exclusive" access to what we though our pledge level was every time a new build is released.
We weren't told about this in advance and it's going to be another 11 days before we're likely to get any clarification at all. The first we heard about it is through that sales pitch for new alphas, in which the apparent reduction to our pledge level was pimped as a "fantastic" reason to buy into alpha.
In the end it's about communication and a sense that our patience and £100+ (there you go Patrick_68000
) pledges haven't been respected. I know people are sick of hearing about it and think we're making mountains out of molehills, but look back through our posting histories and you'll find that some us are not the sort to make a big deal out of nothing. There are genuine grievances here, even if they are sometimes expressed through the medium of hyperbole.
Lol... no, it really isn't and pretty much every example of this manner is very much hyperbole.
BUT, whilst I don't get the Insurance hullabaloo I can understand the access to Beta point. Yes you will get it, but I can understand that the phrasing and selling of the early access was mishandled IMHO and was very much a clear selling strategy.
That being said, more money benefits the game ultimately, or at least it should... we might not always like the selling strategies and i am sure there will be others (we are yet to see MT designs!) that present us all with an element of dissatisfaction.
It is hard when you have to balance the Game element vs the financing element.
Ultimately though are you really reallllllllly that bothered about logging in a day or two later than the Alphas?
If this perk had been clearly stated during the KS phase, would it have influenced your decision to pay the extra amount? Well maybe it would have, but you will excuse me if I believe it wouldn't have.
As much as Alphas can be accused of not seeing it from the non-Alphas, those in Beta complaining here sometimes are just as guilty of coming across like spoilt children.
Crucifying?
You've no idea.
Go on a popular game's forums and look at the posts, there's people calling for Devs to loose their jobs due to bugs or death threats due to balancing changes in the game's weapons. These forums are a Vicar's tea party compared to other forums.
I know that... and I will not deny that some development companies had/have it coming (not the death threats part, mind, that just plain sick)... I just don't think FD deserves that kind of treatment.
This project has already brought about so many great things: Wirting initiatives, audio dramas, and a whole lot of other very creative follow up projects... all directly linked back to the vision of a couple of people that want to make the game of their dreams... I can only have the utmost respect for that.
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In the end it's about communication and a sense that our patience and £100+ (there you go Patrick_68000
Understandable and sensible response.
It just got all a bit silly with outrageous similes and comparisons.
Why on the internet does everyone become a warrior and reach for the pitchfork rather than simply state their perceived grievances in a normal manner and preferably directly to FD.
The problem is as soon as the pitchfork brigade swan in, forums get out of hand and fast and soon even the sensible people get just as riled up as the mob that started it all.
Maybe it is just me, but if FD had stated the DDF members would all get access to the Alpha 48hrs earlier than everyone else, I would not have batted an eyelid. However if that had been accompanied with the same sales pitch I too would likely be rolling my eyes at the obvious sales pitch. But i wouldn't pay it and would just wait.
What I wouldn't do is rush to the internet and cry foul, demanding my money back and comparing it to slavery and the like.
Hugs anyone?
Yeah, let's get all hugsy
Seriously though, good posts Riandor, thanks for some sanity.You may be surprised to know that I'm not a Premium beta backer. I don't think this situation is right hence my position on the matter.
I don't think that just more money means a better game. More money means more profit for FD and their investors. There is no guarantee that any money is going to go into further development of the game (they probably will if it's successful after launch so that they can make more money with expansions, I can pretty much guarantee that if it flops on release the expansions won't be made).
Where do you draw the line at this type of thing? more money for FD means a better game then you wouldn't object to paying for better guns as more money makes the game better.
Is the insurance thing that big a deal? not that much, it's a Pay to get a monetary advantage that may or may not be a massive amount but had it been part of the original pledge tier's I wouldn't have cared. Same with the exclusive period for Beta 1, had it been in there from the start it wouldn't have mattered.
What I care about is though is FD springing this on us now as a ploy to eek out more money. It's a horrid practice and if we few backers that linger on the forums don't point out that it's wrong and that we don't want that type of thing then FD will just think it's the type of thing we do want and do more of it.
The fact that so many people here are standing up for this type of crappy practice is frankly bizarre and the immature comments seem to me (and other backers include Alpha backers) to be coming mostly from Alpha backers that a) are benefiting from the situation b) won't take any criticism against FD or E: D due to I assume tribal behaviour.
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Or, option c, are simply more involved in what FD is doing because they ARE alpha backers, and therefor are convinced that the game will be what FD claims it will be...
Awesome reason for the immature comments there, justifies them completely. Consider yourself the victor in that debate.
I am not interested in anyone's level, the arguments for and against if argued sensibly should be irrespective
Everyone has a line, that would be mine. Similarly the SC approach of pre-buying ships is not for me. I will probably buy that game but I will also just wait for it and play it "normally".
Well it's debatable that FD would consider seeing this as an excuse to later spring a whole sort of financial evil scheme. But hey, I am guessing just as much as you are frankly.
No one (to my recollection) said they were actively standing up for it.There is a sensible middle ground whereby we admit that it was a selling opportunity that FD decided to take to see if they could promote more backers into Alpha.
It has very very little impact on anyone outside of Alpha other than to potentially set a precedence and to me that suggests the precedence will be to promote others to up their pledges from Beta 2 to Beta 1 etc... and lo and behold we will likely see the same threads emerging again.
But rather than the pitchfork approach, how about a sensible email to FD declaring your malcontent? What do any of us expect to achieve within this thread other than to stir up an emotive response?
The fact that it is predominantly the same people on either side having this out shows how little people really care and we few who have taken the time to post and counter post are just going round in circles.
So come on King5ton, let's agree that FD were a little lazy with their wording on this or at worst perhaps inconsiderate to other backers, but let's hold off with the burning and pillaging until we see how things go.
Let's agree to not say "I told you so" whichever way this goes eh?
I am not interested in anyone's level, the arguments for and against if argued sensibly should be irrespective
Everyone has a line, that would be mine. Similarly the SC approach of pre-buying ships is not for me. I will probably buy that game but I will also just wait for it and play it "normally".
Well it's debatable that FD would consider seeing this as an excuse to later spring a whole sort of financial evil scheme. But hey, I am guessing just as much as you are frankly.
No one (to my recollection) said they were actively standing up for it.There is a sensible middle ground whereby we admit that it was a selling opportunity that FD decided to take to see if they could promote more backers into Alpha.
It has very very little impact on anyone outside of Alpha other than to potentially set a precedence and to me that suggests the precedence will be to promote others to up their pledges from Beta 2 to Beta 1 etc... and lo and behold we will likely see the same threads emerging again.
But rather than the pitchfork approach, how about a sensible email to FD declaring your malcontent? What do any of us expect to achieve within this thread other than to stir up an emotive response?
The fact that it is predominantly the same people on either side having this out shows how little people really care and we few who have taken the time to post and counter post are just going round in circles.
So come on King5ton, let's agree that FD were a little lazy with their wording on this or at worst perhaps inconsiderate to other backers, but let's hold off with the burning and pillaging until we see how things go.
Let's agree to not say "I told you so" whichever way this goes eh?
I'll hold off the burning and pillaging (if that's what I've been doing then I'd hate to think what you'd think if I was doing what I consider burning and pillaging, mass genocide maybe
) if you can hold off telling people to stop airing their concerns. It's an armistice though
Spoiled children are usually spoiled. Don't really think that's applicable to backers below the alpha level. I await to be informed in which way we've been spoiled.
I have. The silence is deafening.
(The 'criticism' of FD or rather one or two of their decisions such as it is has been infrequent and incredibly mild imo, not really up there with crucifixion. )
I'll hold off the burning and pillaging (if that's what I've been doing then I'd hate to think what you'd think if I was doing what I consider burning and pillaging, mass genocide maybe
It's an armistice though
Nah it wasn't all aimed at you one bit... there are other "guiltier" parties.
Concerns should be aired, no question, I apologise if I didn't eloquently put that across.
Armistice agreed.
Can I have Alsace?
Of course you are right with regards to that War, problem is - as I pointed out earlier, a reply to a thread asking for carrots in the game seems to get an answer quick enough but some of the more important issues don't get answered or addressed by FD
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