General / Off-Topic Recycle or Die! (the elite environmental thread)

So, ignoring the evidence about feedback to your own posts as well. Interesting lack of self awareness.

There was no current argument on the table, all I did was look at the evidence and ask you a question...
If you want to be my armchair psychologist that's fine by me but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand so I suggest you drop the ball before the OP or a mod slaps it out of your hand.
 
Then quit arguing for the sake of it and bring something useful to the table. Show me your evidence.
Quite. I've yet to see anything credible from you in this thread so far. You need to step up or shut up (is that the phrase the 'right' loves?).

This is a thread about environmental issues, and to be frank i have no idea what your purpose is here other than to pepper the thread with off topic stuff and personal attacks against many of the posters here. If you have an issue with the science of one of the articles about an environmental issue then please do show your scientific evidence to counter it. I'm not interested in your opinion, show me the facts from a credible source, and then you'll be making your first contribution :)

I won't talk to you again until, in your own words, you bring something on topic and useful to the thread.

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Back on topic, we have futher evidence about the threat to insect life (and that means trouble for us as well):

‘Insect apocalypse’ poses risk to all life on Earth, conservationists warn':


The “unnoticed insect apocalypse” should set alarm bells ringing, according to conservationists, who said that without a halt there will be profound consequences for humans and all life on Earth.

A new report suggested half of all insects may have been lost since 1970 as a result of the destruction of nature and heavy use of pesticides. The report said 40% of the 1million known species of insect are facing extinction.

The analysis, written by one of the UK’s leading ecologists, has a particular focus on the UK, whose insects are the most studied in the world. It said 23 bee and wasp species have become extinct in the last century, while the number of pesticide applications has approximately doubled in the last 25 years.

UK butterflies that specialise in particular habitats have fallen 77% since the mid-1970s and generalists have declined 46%, the report said. There are also knock-on effects on other animals, such as the spotted flycatcher which only eats flying insects. Its populations have dropped by 93% since 1967.

But conservationists said that insect populations can be rescued, by introducing firm targets to cut pesticide use and making urban parks and gardens more wildlife friendly. Scientists said insects are essential for all ecosystems, as pollinators, food for other creatures, and recyclers of nutrients.

“We can’t be sure, but in terms of numbers, we may have lost 50% or more of our insects since 1970 – it could be much more,” said Prof Dave Goulson, at the University of Sussex, UK, who wrote the report for the Wildlife Trusts. “We just don’t know, which is scary. If we don’t stop the decline of our insects there will be profound consequences for all life on earth [and] for human wellbeing.”
Insects are like the 'life blood' of the whole eco system. Without them there is no agriculture, or food chain for anything. And the threat is not just from pesticide over-use, but AGW as well as a few studies have shown some insects have difficulty adapting to fast climate change.
 
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Meh, you clowns are welcome to your fear mongering. I've posted multiple links but you've made it clear you're not interested in data that might disrupt your mainstream catastrophic CO2 consensus narrative.
Some youtube videos or wikipedia links aren't data, sources? Perhaps (especially wikipedia) but sources != data.
 
Yeah when you know the majority of anti AGW media has been funded and created by pro Big Oil sources, with questionable/non relevant peer reviewed science on the subject you just can't take it seriously.

AGW is real, it is recent (in geological timescales) it is a threat to human civilization, as we are starting to see from multiple unfolding yearly disasters from all around the globe. Only the insanely blind and illogical can hold the opinion AGW is all fake. The science does not tell that narrative, and even bad science has a problem holding coherent counter arguments in the face of the overwhelming evidence showing it is real, and a real concern.

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In the mean time more houses are going to be built in flood plains in the UK:

'Thousands of homes to be built in flood zones':


What a waste of time and resources and what a stressful problem for those poor people suckered into buying them. This kind of stuff should have government level over-sight to ensure it does not happen. It's just crazy.
 
'European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing':


The European Investment Bank has agreed to phase out its multibillion-euro financing for fossil fuels within the next two years to become the world’s first ‘“climate bank”.

The bank will end its financing of oil, gas, and coal projects after 2021, a policy that will make the EU’s lending arm the first multilateral lender to rule out financing for projects that contribute to the climate crisis.

The decision to stem the flow of capital into fossil fuel projects has been welcomed by green groups as an important step towards the EU’s aim to be carbon-neutral by 2050.

The EIB, the world’s largest multilateral financial institution, described its decision as a “quantum leap” in ambition. “Climate is the top issue on the political agenda of our time,” said the bank’s president, Werner Hoyer. “We will stop financing fossil fuels and launch the most ambitious climate investment strategy of any public financial institution anywhere.”
And the rest of the finnancial markets will follow as the slow realisation sinks in that investment in fossil fuels is a bad bet in the not too distant future. It is now very high risk with just growing lower returns.
 
'European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing':




And the rest of the finnancial markets will follow as the slow realisation sinks in that investment in fossil fuels is a bad bet in the not too distant future. It is now very high risk with just growing lower returns.
Excellent news here.

And in the meantime I think polluters need to be even more taxed financially (and also the SUV owners ;))
 
Well in many cases most car owners have been 'duped' by the car sellers. SUV's are sold as 'safe cars for the family' and what family does not want to be safe to their children? So at this point i think ALL the pressure needs to go on the big business side of the equation, and actually i'd prefer to see government incentives (money) go to people to trade in SUV's or Diesel cars with bigger incentives to switch to EV vehicles.
 
'The UK needs 1.5bn new trees to tackle the climate crisis – a Northumberland project is showing one way forward':


“This whole area wants to be a wood,” says Edward Milbank, sweeping his arm across the former hill farm in Northumberland. Small saplings of birch have invaded the cleared ground, but many more trees are being pushed into the soil by hand.

The bracken and rhododendron that had overrun the hillside took heavy machinery three months to rip out. “When you disturb the soil, it becomes a wood very quickly,” says Milbank.

“But the Forestry Commission forced us to put in Scots pine as well. The entire area could be birch without spending a penny, but you have to be seen to be doing something to justify the [planting grants].”

This former sheep and cattle farm, Doddington North, is being converted into England’s largest private new woodland in 30 years, with 680,000 trees being planted over the 350 hectares. Moving down the hill, Milbank points and says: “The reason we were able to raise the investment is that – sitka spruce.”

The commercial timber tree will occupy 40% of the land, with native broadleaf trees such as birch, alder, aspen and oak on about a third and the rest managed as open grassland. Milbank, whose company Pennine Forestry is running the project, hopes it will encourage more wildlife, such as the red squirrels that live in an adjoining wood, and the kestrels that already fly overhead searching for the shrews that dart between tussocks.

The UK needs 1.5bn more trees, according to the government’s official climate change advisers, to suck up carbon dioxide and help restore wildlife. But the question of how they will be delivered – private or public, commercial or wild – remains open, despite the pioneering effort at Doddington North, which should be completed this winter.
I'll see you around with my spade somewhere :)
 
Well in many cases most car owners have been 'duped' by the car sellers. SUV's are sold as 'safe cars for the family' and what family does not want to be safe to their children? So at this point i think ALL the pressure needs to go on the big business side of the equation, and actually i'd prefer to see government incentives (money) go to people to trade in SUV's or Diesel cars with bigger incentives to switch to EV vehicles.
There are numerous ways to quantify "safe" in regards to vehicle choice, but as a general catch-all phrase I would agree that a modern day Chevy Suburban (for instance) is a very safe vehicle to put one's family into and on the highway. Not only safe but I can't really think of another vehicle that ticks as many boxes in that all important department. When my family has to be transported somewhere their safety and comfort are big factors in my thinking, whilst concerns about my larger responsibility to the planet don't even enter the equation.
 
There are numerous ways to quantify "safe" in regards to vehicle choice, but as a general catch-all phrase I would agree that a modern day Chevy Suburban (for instance) is a very safe vehicle to put one's family into and on the highway. Not only safe but I can't really think of another vehicle that ticks as many boxes in that all important department. When my family has to be transported somewhere their safety and comfort are big factors in my thinking, whilst concerns about my larger responsibility to the planet don't even enter the equation.
Do not forget that there is always bigger than you, my poor Jason.

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Do not forget that there is always bigger than you, my poor Jason.

View attachment 151672
That seems like a rather pedestrian way of analyzing auto safety, but even if we go with such a simplistic measuring stick the formula would go something like: if you're in a Suburban, a semi truck like the one pictured is going to be bigger than you and potentially more deadly in a contact situation, whilst if you're in a small compact everything is bigger and potentially more deadly. Still comes down to playing the odds and making yourself as safe as possible, while understanding that there are no guarantees.
 
The exchanges between Cmdrs on this thread are also [complex].

😓
Sorry, missed that post.
Nothing complex or shady about it. I just didn't make it sticky. ;)
For taking notes, it was nothing but a simple move to have a presentation of my ingame commander in the forums (both name and image). For whatever it's worth. An 'anti-hide' move if you want. But I feel sad and honored all together that you somehow seem to be attached to that picommander guy, sorry. :rolleyes:
I can assure you that the person behind this avatar is still exactly the same picommander. I wouldn't mind if you still call me pico, if it makes you feel better (but Fri, Frill or whatever creative solution you come up with will also be ok, just not 'Drecksack' please)... ;)
 
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'The UK needs 1.5bn new trees to tackle the climate crisis – a Northumberland project is showing one way forward':




I'll see you around with my spade somewhere :)
Using Ecosia as an alternative for google is a very cheap and easy way to support reforestation. Only downside and 'costs': you need to switch off your adblocker if you take it seriously, otherwise there's no cash flow of course. But don't worry, Ecosia's ads aren't very intrusive as of now, no comparison to google. This project seems quite effective and promising, but see for yourself. :)
 
Yeah when you know the majority of anti AGW media has been funded and created by pro Big Oil sources, with questionable/non relevant peer reviewed science on the subject you just can't take it seriously.
I'd suggest to just ignore these yesterday people as they're nothing but agitating and not really interested in a conversation. All they have to offer are tons of red herrings, that's why they just stink. You certainly could spend your energy elsewhere and on more fruitful activities while keeping your mind sane. :)
 
The problem is we can't really afford to ignore them, as they are the ones that keep on voting in people like Trump or the Torries (and their messy involvement with fracking in the uk) in out political systems, and that causes the problems to just get worse for all of us.

So while it is frustrating, and often seemingly pointless, i think we need to help clarify the science in AGW, and how it is no different to the science that makes a plane fly or car drive etc. Science (when peer reviewed off course!) is what helps us tell facts from fallacies, and in the case of AGW, the vested interests of the Big Oil companies have been pulling the wool over peoples eyes for decades and we are just running out of time to stop a nasty future for our grand-children.

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'Air pollution kills five people in Bristol each week, study shows':


Five people die each week in Bristol as a result of high levels of air pollution, a study has revealed.

Researchers at King’s College London examined the combined impact of PM2.5, which is mainly from domestic wood and coal burning and industrial combustion and nitrogen dioxide, which mainly comes from older polluting vehicles.

The fine particulates and nitrogen dioxide that pollute Bristol’s air cause about 260 people to die each year, the scientists calculated. These pollutants could cause up to 36,000 deaths across the UK each year, and also contribute to several health conditions including asthma, lung cancer, heart disease, stroke and diabetes.
Just another reason we should switch from ICE to EV personal vehicles, to clean up the dangerous air.
 
The problem is we can't really afford to ignore them, as they are the ones that keep on voting in people like Trump or the Torries (and their messy involvement with fracking in the uk) in out political systems, and that causes the problems to just get worse for all of us.
Weren't you complaining this thread kept getting locked for discussing politics?
 
Nice try ;)

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Still ultimately this is what it is all about:

'Saudi Aramco valuation falls below $2tn target':


The value of Saudi Arabia’s state-owned oil giant has fallen below the $2tn target set by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman after a tepid response from international investors to its stock market flotation.

Saudi Aramco will sell up to 1.5% of the world’s most profitable company at between 30 riyal and 32 riyal a share (around 600-610p per share) through its market debut, it announced on Sunday. This would value the company at between $1.6tn and $1.7tn.

The listing on Riyadh’s Tadawul exchange is expected early next month and aims to raise between $24bn-$25.6bn (£30.1bn-£33bn) from investors in the Middle East to help reform the Saudi economy.

Aramco will reveal the final price of its shares, and its valuation, by early next month although has yet to announce a date when its shares will begin to trade.

The IPO was initially expected to be the largest market debut of any company, offering up to 5% of the company on both the Tadawul and an exchange in one of the world’s largest financial centres.

But after a series of delays to the listing, Aramco’s IPO will offer a far smaller stake, mainly to investors in the Middle East, and may fall short of the $25bn raised by Chinese online retailer Alibaba’s record debut in 2014.

Aramco has scrapped plans to market the float to US investors in favour of a careful focus on Middle Eastern institutional investors and ultra-high net worth individuals in the region where the company is confident of support.

Around 0.5% has been earmarked for Saudi retail investors, who have been promised tax cuts and a $75bn-a-year minimum dividend. Aramco is also courting investors in China and Russia to drum up investor support.

But in meetings held with other international banks and hedge funds Aramco has reportedly faced a cooler reception, amid scepticism over its $2tn valuation. A Bloomberg poll of international money managers found the majority put Aramco’s valuation at between $1.2tn and $1.5tn.
Where the vast wealth and power of Big Oil has been driving our economies and markets for decades and boosting the CO2 output alongside that. It is good to see the markets start to understand the danger they have put the whole foundations of human civilization in, and slowly start to adjust. Still it is a shame that options like this float are still possible, near total divestment from fossil fuel is the only way to ensure longterm human civilzation on this planet, as we have found out (and are finding out increasingly).
 
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