General / Off-Topic Recycle or Die! (the elite environmental thread)

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Industrial Heat- a cleaner way:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/19/bill-gates-energy-startup-sunlight-heliogen-solar-energy

This might be useful to run things like the Haber process, or melt cryolite to manufacture aluminium.

 

[Zak Gordon]

There also have been similar projects done in a couple of the middle-eastern countries and iirc Spain has something like it to? All useful technology to be explored for sure as we transition away from fossil fuel burning.

Speaking of such:

'Analysis: Global coal power set for record fall in 2019':

Analysis: Global coal power set for record fall in 2019 | Carbon Brief

Global electricity production from coal is on track to fall by around 3% in 2019, the largest drop on record.

www.carbonbrief.org

This would amount to a reduction of around 300 terawatt hours (TWh), more than the combined total output from coal in Germany, Spain and the UK last year.

The analysis is based on monthly electricity sector data from around the world for the first seven to 10 months of the year, depending on data availability in each country.

The main counteracting force is from continuing increases in coal generation in south-east Asia, but demand from these countries is still small relative to the global total.

The global decline means an economic hit for coal plants due to reduced average running hours, which are set to reach an all-time low.

The record drop also raises the prospect of slowing global CO2 emissions growth in 2019. Nevertheless, global coal use and emissions remain far higher than the level required to meet the goals of the Paris Agreement.

Only China is bucking the global trend re coal currently.

 

[Zak Gordon]

Good news and bad news today!

The Good (and interesting in that i need to find out more sources about it!):

'Solar farms can keep UK’s lights on even at night':

Solar farms can keep UK’s lights on even at night

Trial shows panels can smooth voltage fluctuations in the National Grid

www.theguardian.com

Solar farms could soon play a vital role in the energy system 24 hours a day, after a breakthrough trial proved they can even help balance the grid at night. National Grid used a solar farm in East Sussex to help smooth overnight voltage fluctuations for the first time earlier this month, proving solar farms don’t need sunshine to help keep the lights on.

Lightsource BP, the owner of the solar farm, said an inexpensive tweak to the project’s electrical equipment meant it could help balance the grid with only two seconds’ notice. Kareen Boutonnat, the company’s chief operating officer, said: “We have proven that solar plants can play a larger role across the electricity network. But this is only the beginning.”

The picture is a little misleading in that it shows moonlight over some solar panels, which is not what the article is about (i think). I'll do more research into it as it sounds exactly like the kind of green energy innovations we need to get us through the next article!

The Bad:

'Climate change: Greenhouse gas concentrations again break records':

Greenhouse gas concentrations break records

The World Meteorological Organization says the levels of warming gases continue to reach new highs.

www.bbc.com

Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases once again reached new highs in 2018.

The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) says the increase in CO2 was just above the average rise recorded over the last decade.

Levels of other warming gases, such as methane and nitrous oxide, have also surged by above average amounts.

Since 1990 there's been an increase of 43% in the warming effect on the climate of long lived greenhouse gases.

The 'ugly' is just that we carry on allowing this to happen, even when the evidence is obvious and overwhelming in telling us we are going to (and are already) regret it in the lifetime of all our own children.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Good news and bad news today!

The Good (and interesting in that i need to find out more sources about it!):

'Solar farms can keep UK’s lights on even at night':

Solar farms can keep UK’s lights on even at night

Trial shows panels can smooth voltage fluctuations in the National Grid

www.theguardian.com

The picture is a little misleading in that it shows moonlight over some solar panels, which is not what the article is about (i think). I'll do more research into it as it sounds exactly like the kind of green energy innovations we need to get us through the next article!

The Bad:

'Climate change: Greenhouse gas concentrations again break records':

Greenhouse gas concentrations break records

The World Meteorological Organization says the levels of warming gases continue to reach new highs.

www.bbc.com

The 'ugly' is just that we carry on allowing this to happen, even when the evidence is obvious and overwhelming in telling us we are going to (and are already) regret it in the lifetime of all our own children.

I don't get the bad news - this is business as usual and expected to last at least until the end of next decade. Every year CO2 concentration peaks right at the beginning of the Northern Spring when foliage starts to grow and reduce CO2 levels. I guess around late Autumn (this time of the year) their effect gets evened out/cancelled and we'll see CO2 break records again until next Spring.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

There also have been similar projects done in a couple of the middle-eastern countries and iirc Spain has something like it to? All useful technology to be explored for sure as we transition away from fossil fuel burning.

Speaking of such:

'Analysis: Global coal power set for record fall in 2019':

Analysis: Global coal power set for record fall in 2019 | Carbon Brief

Global electricity production from coal is on track to fall by around 3% in 2019, the largest drop on record.

www.carbonbrief.org

Yes, confirmed by this source also:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/26/coal-fired-power-is-declining-thanks-to-a-slowdown-in-india-and-china-climate-change/

 

[Zak Gordon]

I don't get the bad news - this is business as usual and expected to last at least until the end of next decade.

Since 1990 there's been an increase of 43% in the warming effect on the climate of long lived greenhouse gases.

and the bad news is a new record for CO2 (in post industrial history) was reached. It's bad because all this is directly feeding the extreme weather events all around the globe (which in turn harms the economy and our ability to deal with it). It is not 'good' news or even 'not important' news by any stretch.

-----------------------------

So one of the often quoted things is that in a world with lots more CO2, we don't need to worry so much as it means plants will grow quicker to absorb more. It is a basic principle that is true, BUT in relation to AGW the problem is the SPEED of change in CO2 levels, as the earths natural systems have never had to cope with such fast changes as we are driving:

'Future forests facing climate balancing act':

Future forests facing climate balancing act

Forests can cope in a warming world only if temperatures increase in line with rises in CO2, a study finds.

www.bbc.com

Forests can cope with a warming world if - and only if - temperature rises increase in line with increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide. Increased CO2 allows trees to develop physiological characteristics, such as greater foliage, that can cope with higher temperatures.

But researchers warn that a break in the temperature-CO2 increase ratio could trigger mortality in forests. The findings appear in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

So basically if we carry on doing not enough (to tackle our self created AGW problem) and decide at the last minute to plant lots of trees to 'save us', they will likely just die as they struggle to cope with the still rising levels of CO2. In short on our current trajectory of rising CO2 the plants will not be able to cope to help offset the problem.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

and the bad news is a new record for CO2 (in post industrial history) was reached. It's bad because all this is directly feeding the extreme weather events all around the globe (which in turn harms the economy and our ability to deal with it). It is not 'good' news or even 'not important' news by any stretch.

-----------------------------

So one of the often quoted things is that in a world with lots more CO2, we don't need to worry so much as it means plants will grow quicker to absorb more. It is a basic principle that is true, BUT in relation to AGW the problem is the SPEED of change in CO2 levels, as the earths natural systems have never had to cope with such fast changes as we are driving:

'Future forests facing climate balancing act':

Future forests facing climate balancing act

Forests can cope in a warming world only if temperatures increase in line with rises in CO2, a study finds.

www.bbc.com

So basically if we carry on doing not enough (to tackle our self created AGW problem) and decide at the last minute to plant lots of trees to 'save us', they will likely just die as they struggle to cope with the still rising levels of CO2. In short on our current trajectory of rising CO2 the plants will not be able to cope to help offset the problem.

I'm not disputing the 'bad' there, just the 'news'. This isn't news. We could report the same every month till next Spring. Then start over again next Autumn - every year until at least 2030.
It's like as it was news that the Queen has never been so old before.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I'm not disputing the 'bad' there, just the 'news'. This isn't news. We could report the same every month till next Spring. Then start over again next Autumn - every year until at least 2030.
It's like as it was news that the Queen has never been so old before.

It is always good that the things do not fall into the oblivion.

The oblivion is the worst thing that can happen.

This kind of information must be repeated tirelessly every month I think.

 

[jasonbarron]

Repeat it tirelessly until people finally just get so used to hearing it regurgitated they assume it's true.

 

[Six6VI]

Repeat it tirelessly until people finally just get so used to hearing it regurgitated they assume it's true.

There's nothing new under the Sun, and the media will keep hyping up rubbish to get advertiser clicks.

 

[Zak Gordon]

Lol. it is NEW in the timespan we are referencing. It is 100% related to man made actions, it has never been seen in the historical record in such a way as it is now. So it is new AND news in that we have passed another milestone for man-made CO2 levels. If it was neither of those, there would be no article with scientists giving us that information. That is about as black&white as i can make it for you guys to understand better.

I KNOW exactly what your trying to do, trying to equate natural seasonal changes to the topic in the article, but that is like comparing a pig to a cow. Sure they are both animals, but they are not exactly the same (that is also about as black&white as i can make it for you).

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''Bags for life' making plastic problem worse, say campaigners':

'Bags for life' making plastic problem worse, say campaigners

Calls for ban or higher prices as sales jump to 1.5bn, equivalent to 54 bags per household

www.theguardian.com

It is more than ironic that this is a 'thing'. My bags are all hessian or cloth, so i have no idea why we ended up here. Like who decided the solution to plastic bags was more plastic bags! Sheer lunacy.

 

[Six6VI]

Unbunch the panties and quit hyperventilating 40,000 ppm deadly toxic CO2 every other second.

What did it say on the cover of the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy? That's right, DON'T PANIC!

 

[Patrick_68000]

European Parliament declares climate emergency

The European Parliament on Thursday decreed the climate and environmental emergency, a symbolic vote to keep up the pressure on EU leaders in the run-up to COP25 on the climate and with the arrival of a new European executive.

The resolution, adopted by a comfortable majority (429 for, 225 against and 19 abstentions), affirms Parliament's commitment to limit global warming to 1.5 ° C and avoid a massive loss of biodiversity..

It follows similar votes in a number of EU national parliaments, including France, the United Kingdom and Austria.

The fact that Europe is the first continent to declare the climate and environmental emergency, just before COP25, as the new Commission takes office, and three weeks after Donald Trump confirmed the withdrawal of the United States from the Paris Agreement, is a strong message sent to citizens and the rest of the world.

"The Commission must immediately start an in-depth overhaul of EU rules on agriculture, transport and trade, in order to bring them into line with the Paris Climate Agreement," said one of its responsible, Imke Lübbeke.

 

[Zak Gordon]

Unbunch the panties and quit hyperventilating 40,000 ppm deadly toxic CO2 every other second.

I never panic or get worked up, that's just my nature, so if that was addressed to me, you got the wrong guy

----------------------

This sounds pretty cool as it will give us even better tools to gather data to help push the worlds understanding on AGW in the correct direction:

'Europe's new space budget to enable CO2 mapping':

Europe's new space budget to enable CO2 mapping

A multi-billion-euro funding package for the European Space Agency is agreed by its member states.

www.bbc.com

Europe will press ahead with a network of satellites to track carbon dioxide emissions across the globe.

They will be developed out of a new European Space Agency (Esa) budget agreed in Seville, Spain.

Research ministers on Thursday approved a package of proposals worth some €14.4bn (£12.3bn/$15.9bn) over the next five years.

As well as the new CO2 monitoring system, the funds will also pave the way for missions to the Moon and Mars.

I guess the UK will not have a large role in this kind of thing going forward? Which is bad for UK science imho

 

[Six6VI]

I never panic or get worked up, that's just my nature, so if that was addressed to me, you got the wrong guy

----------------------

This sounds pretty cool as it will give us even better tools to gather data to help push the worlds understanding on AGW in the correct direction:

'Europe's new space budget to enable CO2 mapping':

Europe's new space budget to enable CO2 mapping

A multi-billion-euro funding package for the European Space Agency is agreed by its member states.

www.bbc.com

I guess the UK will not have a large role in this kind of thing going forward? Which is bad for UK science imho

Well that looks like an excellent idea! 15 million euros for a satellite that watches CO2 just like this one.

It's quite a versatile tool, including real pollutants like Carbon Monoxide (CO) and Sulphur Dioxide (SO2).

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

https://www.carbonbrief.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Renewable-power-generation-blue-and-capacity-green-as-a-share-of-the-global-total-2007-2017.png

According to Ray Kurzweil, this is the beginning of an exponential curve.
Kurzweil is running at 86% accuracy in his predictions. He's probably right. So the problem will get solved, if there's time.
8 years doubling time: 12-24-48-96 is 3 jumps, so 24 years. That's by 2044.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The humanity must end its «war on nature», said UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres on Sunday, before the opening of the UN climate conference (COP25) in Madrid, denouncing the commitments “totally inadequate” by the international community to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

 

[jasonbarron]

The UN is an international joke, though, so struggling to see the relevance.

 

[Six6VI]

The UN is an international joke, though, so struggling to see the relevance.

International joke that got woke, and is going broke. Seems the push for global socialism ain't so popular.

 

[Zak Gordon]

I swear i do not know what you are talking about most of the time Six6VI? Are these words and conversations you normally have? Isn't woke to do with born again christians or something? Anyway it is all irrelevant to this topic.

---------------

'Climate change: Study underpins key idea in Antarctic ice loss':

Study underpins key idea in Antarctic ice loss

The notion that thinning ice shelves enable glacier speed-up and mass loss is cemented.

www.bbc.com

It's long been suspected but scientists can now show conclusively that thinning in the ring of floating ice around Antarctica is driving mass loss from the interior of the continent.

A new study finds the diminishing thickness of ice shelves is matched almost exactly by an acceleration in the glaciers feeding in behind them.

What's more, the linkage is immediate.

It means we can't rely on a lag in the system to delay the rise in sea-levels as shelves melt in a warmer world.

The glaciers will speed up in tandem, dumping their mass in the ocean.

"The response is essentially instantaneous," said Prof Hilmar Gudmundsson from Northumbria University, UK.

"If you thin the ice shelves today, the increase in flow of the ice upstream will increase today - not tomorrow, not in 10 or 100 years from now; it will happen immediately," he told BBC News.

Luckily pretty much everyone i know has land on high ground and away from flood plains (it's been family tradition for the last decade or longer to only invest in land/property with a concern for rising sea levels and flood events). Pretty much sucks for all those that ignore the warnings though.