Red giant or not red giant

The link between a star's mass and its spectral class is much, um, "weaker" in ED than it is in the actual galaxy. The largest "red dwarf", the M0V class, are up to 62% of the Sun's radius. Any bigger, and the star will become too hot to classify as Class M, and instead become a class K "orange dwarf".

Note that this is for luminosity class V ("main sequence") stars. Class IV (subgiants), class III (giants), class II and I (supergiants) are larger but have evolved from smaller, hotter stars that are nearing their end-of-life cycle. However, "Class M IV red subgiants" do not exist; the universe is not yet old enough for the small stars that theorietically would form into such objects, to have done so.

There is, therefore a distinct "gap" in sizes of Class M stars, between the regular Class V red dwarfs (which end at around 0.62 solar radii) and the Class III red giants, which start at around 10 solar radii. The ED galaxy has much more of a continuum of sizes.

Finally, to addres your earlier questions about the origin or reason behind the patterning and clumping of data around certain points. It is best explained by the vagaries of the Stellar Forge, the equations ED uses to generate the stars in the galaxy. Look hard enough, at enough data, and you will see such inexplicable patterns wherever you look at the data from the ED universe.

For example, check out this graph I made of the surface conditions of Earth-like worlds, specifically, comparing the atmospheric pressure and the surface gravity:
SP6qZCZ.jpg


You would not expect any kind of pattern to appear in real-universe data of thousands of Earth-like planets, but a clear pattern emerges here in this ED-erived data set: there are three distinct "groups" of ELWs, forming three separate lobes on the graph. Why? We simply don't know. It's not connected to star class, or mass code, or anything we can detect. It's "just how the Stellar Forge makes ELWs", a pattern that emerges out of the chaotic interaction of the Stellar Forge equations.

You most certainly would expect patterns to emerge in real-universe data of Earth-like planets indeed! Atmospheric pressure vs gravity may not be the best example, but to qualify as Earth-like, the worlds must be able to support Earth-like life, right? So the P/T/g diagrams would have to contain envelopes for such life.

Your graph shows three main trends of Earth-like planets: Low atmospheric pressure with variable (high) gravity, a near 1:1 correlation between gravity and atmospheric pressure, and one with a steep positive gradient of pressure with small changes in gravity. Interestingly, there is no dot at (1, 1), so did you not use Earth itself for the graph? And why is not on any of the trends? Because it is from a tailored system?

The three trends you see are probably rather the three trends of rocky bodies that can host Earth-like conditions: Relatively dense worlds with low proportions of water to mass, suggesting systems with low amounts of ice in the general mass distribution; relatively stable mass (around 1) with quite variable amounts of water varying the pressure, suggestion large amounts of ice in the general system composition; and small bodies with a scaling proportion of water, suggesting systems with an intermediate ice content.

How does other body types (metal-rich rocky worlds, rocky worlds, ammonia worlds) land on a similar plot?

:D S
 
The link between a star's mass and its spectral class is much, um, "weaker" in ED than it is in the actual galaxy. The largest "red dwarf", the M0V class, are up to 62% of the Sun's radius. Any bigger, and the star will become too hot to classify as Class M, and instead become a class K "orange dwarf".

So … it would not matter if I try to sort according to real universe physics because considering that huge M Red Dwarfs exist an in-game huge M star would actually be a totally different class in RL?

And there are super giants (A + B) with radii < 1 Sol radii!

Well, due to all of this (but mainly due to the impossibility to categorize it properly) I will make up some categories for my journey to the record holding bodies:
  • The radius of giants needs to be larger than 23 solar radii (because of a classic book).
  • The radius of super giants needs to be larger than 420 solar radii (because of another classic book … sorry, I had to add the zero because of the "super" attribute … Please don't tell my son ;) ).
  • And finally, (regular star) dwarfs must be smaller than 1 solar radius.
 
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You most certainly would expect patterns to emerge in real-universe data of Earth-like planets indeed! Atmospheric pressure vs gravity may not be the best example, but to qualify as Earth-like, the worlds must be able to support Earth-like life, right? So the P/T/g diagrams would have to contain envelopes for such life.

I would indeed expect patterns of some general kind; but the patterns in ED data are unexpected. As is the case with this graph. The "expected" pattern would be a fuzzy, amorphous blob of worlds running roughly in the direct-proprtional direction; higher-gravity planets "ought" to be more likely to have thicker atmospheres. This is kind of what we see for Group 1 (small, thin-aired), but then the pattern splits into two: Group 2 (with much thicker air than expected) and Group 3 (with much thinner air than expected). There are distinct "holes" in the data in between the groups - including around the 1.00-1.00 point.

Interestingly, there is no dot at (1, 1), so did you not use Earth itself for the graph? And why is not on any of the trends? Because it is from a tailored system?

Correct, I didn't. The data is from uninhabited, non-terraformed, procedurally-generated worlds only (a data-dump of about 30,000 proc-genned ELWs from EDSM a couple of years ago), as the point was to study the parameters the Stellar Forge worked under to create "natural" Earth-likes. Hand-carved worlds like Earth, The Land, Smade's Planet and indeed many of the ELWs in the Bubble will fall well outside the parameters a procedurally-generated world can exist under and still be classed as "Earth-like".

The same with the OP's graphs of mass distribution of red giants. I would "expect" to see a fairly smooth, bell-like distribution, from around 10 to about 200 radii? I think at about that point a "red giant" becomes a "red supergiant", though there is some overlap.
 
Correct, I didn't. The data is from uninhabited, non-terraformed, procedurally-generated worlds only (a data-dump of about 30,000 proc-genned ELWs from EDSM a couple of years ago), as the point was to study the parameters the Stellar Forge worked under to create "natural" Earth-likes.
Wonder how many more ELWs are in EDSM now, and if the graph would still look similar?
 
Last update of my spreadsheets included 164,880 ELWs, but that also includes the handcrafted ones too, though that's a small number in comparison.
 
Sapyx made that graph from my earlier work on EDSM's data in this thread: there were 27,500 back then. A year later, I did the same with a sample size of 76,000, but didn't publish the planetary statistics for those, as the results were the same, and Google Sheets could barely handle the database size.

In a week or so, I'll be doing the same analysis of ELWs one last time, with the sample size Orvidius wrote. I'll take a look if there's anything interesting on this front, but if there isn't, then I won't be uploading those ones - I don't think Google Sheets could actually handle a database that large anyway, unless they've improved it since.
 
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On my way to the Gnosis I've met one more strange giant: it is of about 31 solar radii, so it is a proper giant star. However look at the mass! 0,37. Is this even legal?!

tsue0Rj.jpg
 
While red giants can be that low-mass, they can't be both that massive and that big at the same time. In real life, it's either heavier, or smaller. It would also have to be a lot older than 6.3 billion years, as stars that small and that age aren't supposed to be dying yet.

Comparison example: Arcturus. It's about the same size as that example, but has just over 1 solar mass. Arcturus would have originally been a G-class star, before it went red giant. A star with only .37 solar masses is at the extremely low end of what might turn into a red giant; it would have been a small K-class or maybe a high M-class star.
 
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I'm attaching some HR diagrams that illustrate the main sequence stars, and how they "move" on the graph as they get older. Each diagram covers a slightly different aspect or shows it a little differently.

The Main Sequence is a band in the center of the graph, where most stars that are consuming hydrogen spend most of their lives. They move off of this track when they start using up their fuel, with different paths. You can see how starting mass relates to what size/type of giant they may become. Or rather, this is what they should do, but as we know, the StellarForge isn't always accurate.

Astrophysicists-categorize-star-types-and-stellar-evolution-scenarios-using-the.png


post_main_seq.gif


FG20_12.jpg


PostMSTrks.jpg
 
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I tried doing a plot of Stellar Temperature (x axis) vs Log L on the y axis - calculated from Abs Mag by L = 10^((4.83 - M)/2.5)) - for the 5000 or so stars I've catalogued in ED (excluding neutron stars and black holes, which are way off the chart or break it). Since the y axis is Log L that means 0 is 1 LS, 2 is 100 LS, 4 is 10,000 LS etc, and -2 is 0.01 LS, -4 is 0.0001 LS, etc.

(EDIT - I reposted this to a new thread since it seems like I deserved more focus - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/index.php?threads/ed-hertzsprung-russell-diagram.513322/ )
 
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