Reduce the grind

[Nadreck]

Raw materials are no longer an issue. If you're still relying on driving around looking for rocks to shoot, you're doing it wrong. Better alternatives:

Geological sites (fumaroles etc). Mats everywhere.

Crashed ships (e.g. Bug Killer). Three cargo racks containing g4 mats, refreshed on logging. Do a few laps, then trade.

Crystalline Shards. All g4 mats except selenium, in abundance. Fill up completely, then trade down to fill up g1 to g3, then go back and fill up g4 again. You could then trade to fill up the entire selenium row and then make a third trip to fill up all other g4's again.

For encoded mats, the trader at Ray Gateway is only 2 or 3 jumps away from Jameson's Cobra.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

But on what metric do you equate time invested versus "reward'.

It just sounds like, and I'm not being derogatory, it just sounds like "I want my progress NOW".

For me, I find that my enjoyment and reward is simply from playing the game. The progress thing is neither here nor there. It isn't why I play the game. It's nice to see progress, but not the raison d'etre for playing the game.

My own analysis of people who ask for progress more quickly is that they don't appear to actually enjoy playing the game, and need some placebo awarded to make up for this lack of enjoyment.

Does anyone actually realise that the fundamental concept behind the progress within the game (for instance, the entire rank structure of gaining Elite status) was SUPPOSED to take a verrry long time. It was created to tick along in the background, while you just enjoy playing the game.
Sure, any player can short-cut the time it takes to gain Elite, just by making the game a grind for themselves. I question, however, how much "fun" that is and how "enjoyable" the journey?

I for one just want my gameplay now. The one I could play before engineers and is now gated behind them.

 

[galahad2069]

Crystalline Shards. All g4 mats except selenium, in abundance. Fill up completely

How long will it take? I'm asking because yesterday I bit the bullet and visited such a site and found a grand total of maybe 4x3 units of yttrium in about a half an hour. No way I'm gonna spend another 10x30 minutes to fill up just that one material.

 

[Old Duck]

Raw materials are no longer an issue. If you're still relying on driving around looking for rocks to shoot, you're doing it wrong. Better alternatives:

Crashed ships (e.g. Bug Killer). Three cargo racks containing g4 mats, refreshed on logging. Do a few laps, then trade.

What's this?

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

But on what metric do you equate time invested versus "reward'.

It just sounds like, and I'm not being derogatory, it just sounds like "I want my progress NOW".

For me, I find that my enjoyment and reward is simply from playing the game. The progress thing is neither here nor there. It isn't why I play the game. It's nice to see progress, but not the raison d'etre for playing the game.

My own analysis of people who ask for progress more quickly is that they don't appear to actually enjoy playing the game, and need some placebo awarded to make up for this lack of enjoyment.

Does anyone actually realise that the fundamental concept behind the progress within the game (for instance, the entire rank structure of gaining Elite status) was SUPPOSED to take a verrry long time. It was created to tick along in the background, while you just enjoy playing the game.
Sure, any player can short-cut the time it takes to gain Elite, just by making the game a grind for themselves. I question, however, how much "fun" that is and how "enjoyable" the journey?

No issue with the elite rank system. If anything I think challenges could be added to the trade and exploration to make them harder.

The issues (as I have expressed in prior posts) is that some of the best game mechanics (unlocking guardian toys and engineering the perfect ship) are put behind walls of tedium.

Imo, it boils down to the fact that gathering materials is not difficult, but you have to gather heaps of them. I think the system would be better off if flipped. Make them a little harder/more interesting to get, and cut down on the total number of them/ amount required to upgrade stuff.

For example they could cut down the guardian requirements by 50-60% and they would be still be high enough to require you to go to a few different sites, but not repeat 50 times.

For engineering there’s no real reason to have 100 different materials split into 3 subcategories and spread out at 5 levels of rarity.

The main miscommunication in this thread is that people want a BETTER system. Better does not solely mean “easier” or faster. I’m still going to play the game for an obscene amount of hours, but I would like to cut out some repetition

 

[Cmdr Eratosthenes]

Mmmmmmm......delicious grind.....

Back in the day, us old timers did our grind & what's more we damn well enjoyed it. You kids can grind and grind and grind and you will like it

 

[JustJon]

Mmmmmmm......delicious grind.....

Back in the day, us old timers did our grind & what's more we damn well enjoyed it. You kids can grind and grind and grind and you will like it

Yeah back in my day - take Rick Dangerous as a game for example

You had to grind to get to know the levels so you could beat the level to move onto the next level

So in essence learning the levels was the game so the game was a grind...

You can try it out here

Rick Dangerous Flash - Classic Game Remake

rickdangerousflash.free.fr

 

[AgentGB]

But on what metric do you equate time invested versus "reward'.

It just sounds like, and I'm not being derogatory, it just sounds like "I want my progress NOW".

For me, I find that my enjoyment and reward is simply from playing the game. The progress thing is neither here nor there. It isn't why I play the game. It's nice to see progress, but not the raison d'etre for playing the game.

My own analysis of people who ask for progress more quickly is that they don't appear to actually enjoy playing the game, and need some placebo awarded to make up for this lack of enjoyment.

Does anyone actually realise that the fundamental concept behind the progress within the game (for instance, the entire rank structure of gaining Elite status) was SUPPOSED to take a verrry long time. It was created to tick along in the background, while you just enjoy playing the game.
Sure, any player can short-cut the time it takes to gain Elite, just by making the game a grind for themselves. I question, however, how much "fun" that is and how "enjoyable" the journey?

Sounds to me like you don't care about the grind (progress), its basically water of a ducks back for you. Yet you clearly care enough to stand in the way of having it reduced.

 

[Nadreck]

How long will it take? I'm asking because yesterday I bit the bullet and visited such a site and found a grand total of maybe 4x3 units of yttrium in about a half an hour. No way I'm gonna spend another 10x30 minutes to fill up just that one material.

Did you visit a biological site? You should find tall spikes that are supposedly "built by bacteria". They work like geological sites, except that they only produce one g4 material. So if you're in the right place, it's ALL yttrium everywhere, nothing else (except for the occasional "cobble" that you can ignore).

 

[Nadreck]

What's this?

A crashed Anaconda near the Pleiades. Three cargo racks you can shoot for g4 mats (though not all of them: antimony, ruthenium, tellurium IIRC), plus scannable beacons for data.

Shards are better because you don't have to trade across rows for anything except the selenium row, so you get to keep more of what you gathered. But they're far out, more than 1,000ly from the Bubble.

 

[galahad2069]

Did you visit a biological site? You should find tall spikes that are supposedly "built by bacteria". They work like geological sites, except that they only produce one g4 material. So if you're in the right place, it's ALL yttrium everywhere, nothing else (except for the occasional "cobble" that you can ignore).

Oh thanks, I thought you were talking about the fumarole thingies (geo sites).

 

[DeletedUser191218]

You don't need to play in open if you don't want to be ganked. Another choice.

None of that is needed. It's something you want. CG are a choice. It's a game about choices. Choices in what you do and choices in how you go about it.

I have engineered ships. None of which I have had to grind for. I have participated in CGs and not done any grind. I have helped my BGS faction without the need to grind.

I choose not to grind and I am loving it.

But then I enjoy flying me ship so I don't consider that as a grind.

If you find everything in the game to be boring, uninspiring, tedius, then it's time to play another game. Maybe ED is just not the game for you.

You know, I knew you were going to say 'don't play in open'. The issue with that suggestion is it's yet another restriction put on one's ability to engage with the game...which is ENTIRELY the point I made.

You also brought out the "not the game for you" line. That's what I love about defenders of ED. They're like an aging rock band - they will try new material but always end up going back to their greatest hits. Had you read my post in full, you will have observed that I have quit.

You claim to have engineered ships without grind - I'm afraid I think you're either deliberately being untruthful or mistaken about what the process is you engaged in. People occasionally make this claim...it's never convincing when they do.

 

[tomimt]

Does anyone actually realise that the fundamental concept behind the progress within the game (for instance, the entire rank structure of gaining Elite status) was SUPPOSED to take a verrry long time. It was created to tick along in the background, while you just enjoy playing the game.
Sure, any player can short-cut the time it takes to gain Elite, just by making the game a grind for themselves. I question, however, how much "fun" that is and how "enjoyable" the journey?

Well, as Elite is a game, playing it should be fun no matter if you get a reward or not. Both failure and success can be rewarding in their own right, that's why so many people like games like Dark Souls despite they are punishing and much harder than Elite could ever hope to be. Gathering stuff in Elite is not hard, it is a slough. It encourages you to learn very little from what you do and failure is just that, failure. it doesn't really affect on anything besides perhaps you lose the loot you had or planet data you've scanned.

While Elite is a beautiful game, it still is monotonous. If you like that, then good for you, but as far I can tell, there are some players who don't.

 

[Vandaahl]

Why do I have to land my own ship?

Why do you ask me? For all I care you do not even have to fly your own ship in that kiddy game. Press L to land, W to win, P for phun, enjoy!

 

[House0fDerp]

As I said the only reason to grind is to get something you need.

And we know that's false because people choose to for other reasons. So that factually can't be the only reason.

Again you do need to grind for that. That is your choice. You choose to grind for it and then blame the game.

Of course it's not needed, no one said it was. You're insisting it must be needed in order to be grindy, which isn't true. It's grindy because people find the specific requirements, the things determined by the game itself, to be grindy with regrd to the rewards their after. And yes, the game sets those requirements, not the player, so we blame the game.

 

[House0fDerp]

But on what metric do you equate time invested versus "reward'.

This is subjective and personal, not everyone is going to agree.

It just sounds like, and I'm not being derogatory, it just sounds like "I want my progress NOW".

Which would be valid if people were asking to drop the requirements altogether. They're not though.

For me, I find that my enjoyment and reward is simply from playing the game. The progress thing is neither here nor there. It isn't why I play the game. It's nice to see progress, but not the raison d'etre for playing the game.

My own analysis of people who ask for progress more quickly is that they don't appear to actually enjoy playing the game, and need some placebo awarded to make up for this lack of enjoyment.

Well, sounds like it's time to expand your concept of playing the game to include enjoying utilizing and experimenting with all the systems within the game. Feels like such an odd thing to have to say, that an interest in playing with pieces of the game is an interest in playing the game, but here we are.

Does anyone actually realise that the fundamental concept behind the progress within the game (for instance, the entire rank structure of gaining Elite status) was SUPPOSED to take a verrry long time. It was created to tick along in the background, while you just enjoy playing the game.

Oh, we do, but we often question the purpose it serves and if the game would be better with the concept of interesting or challenging interactions rather than time gates. We also wonder why you would place such potentially significant and powerful rewards behind such a barrier knowing full well the desirability of what you put in the game.

Trophies for hours played?
Sadism?
Time padding?

Not sure really.

Sure, any player can short-cut the time it takes to gain Elite, just by making the game a grind for themselves. I question, however, how much "fun" that is and how "enjoyable" the journey?

Depends on whether the person stopped there, and if they did you'd be missing a big point as much as you are now: The upgrades aren't the end of the journey, they're there to help the journey. They're tools to help you do what you're trying to do in the game for whatever reason you're trying to do it. If you decide the journey is significantly enabled by a tool of unlock, so be it.

 

[Dutchman141]

Hey Frontier, NMS reduced the grind and all players are happy. Please take note.

I agree.

ED used to be practically the only game I played, what I notice personally now that I started to play other games, NMS included, is that ED's shallow gameplay and weird mechanics are becoming much more apparent.
This includes the grindy nature of accomplishing most things you want to achieve.
Mats gathering, ranking, Guardian modules, etc., etc., so many features are revolving around some kind of grind.
I get the feeling that some processes are so long winded just to strech the gameplay time, to make it appear as if ED is a game that offers hours upon hours of engaging gameplay while most of the time is filled with repetitive and monotonous labour.
A lot of the other games I play now deal with this in a much more engaging way or not as long winded.
NMS and ARK for instance have material gathering too but you don't need as much and they're quite easy to obtain, in many cases it's rather fun doing it.

Just my personal opinion though.

 

[Rampant]

This is subjective and personal, not everyone is going to agree.



Which would be valid if people were asking to drop the requirements altogether. They're not though.



Well, sounds like it's time to expand your concept of playing the game to include enjoying utilizing and experimenting with all the systems within the game. Feels like such an odd thing to have to say, that an interest in playing with pieces of the game is an interest in playing the game, but here we are.



Oh, we do, but we often question the purpose it serves and if the game would be better with the concept of interesting or challenging interactions rather than time gates. We also wonder why you would place such potentially significant and powerful rewards behind such a barrier knowing full well the desirability of what you put in the game.

Trophies for hours played?
Sadism?
Time padding?

Not sure really.



Depends on whether the person stopped there, and if they did you'd be missing a big point as much as you are now: The upgrades aren't the end of the journey, they're there to help the journey. They're tools to help you do what you're trying to do in the game for whatever reason you're trying to do it. If you decide the journey is significantly enabled by a tool of unlock, so be it.

Ah okay, so now I got it, I think... You don't want to play the game,, as such... Instead you want to change the game to suit your end desires. Roger that.

 

[Rampant]

I for one just want my gameplay now. The one I could play before engineers and is now gated behind them.

Which gameplay is "your" gameplay?
Is it really gated behind engineers?

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

I agree.

ED used to be practically the only game I played, what I notice personally now that I started to play other games, NMS included, is that ED's shallow gameplay and weird mechanics are becoming much more apparent.
This includes the grindy nature of accomplishing most things you want to achieve.
Mats gathering, ranking, Guardian modules, etc., etc., so many features are revolving around some kind of grind.
I get the feeling that some processes are so long winded just to strech the gameplay time, to make it appear as if ED is a game that offers hours upon hours of engaging gameplay while most of the time is filled with repetitive and monotonous labour.
A lot of the other games I play now deal with this in a much more engaging way or not as long winded.
NMS and ARK for instance have material gathering too but you don't need as much and they're quite easy to obtain, in many cases it's rather fun doing it.

Just my personal opinion though.

The thing is, I dont think E D's game play is shallow at all, I think it is just spread very thin by the grind. In general I think the gameplay is cleverly designed and really fun. The issue is that one has to figuratively run laps just to access what they need to do what they want.