Reduce the grind

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Totally different audiences. NMS is the bubble gum kids game. It's for people who like cell phone games.

Elite is for people who like to argue over the realistic lighting (or lack there of) of the background map of stars.

I dunno. ED transitioned to mobile game progression systenm pretty hard with engineers.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

The problem is simply that your idea requires me to lose in-game assets, where my screenshot approach can easily show that what I've been saying is true.

I think there's another reason why you're repetitive. You've adopted your position out of contrarianism and you're therefore immune to any actual evidence anyway. (BTW I think this means that I wouldn't convince you even if I was prepared to reset my save). You remind me of two RL friends: one's a creationist and the other thinks the moon landings were faked. Neither can be convinced they're wrong by any evidence I can offer.

I asked if a dev can remove engineers and materials so then you can engineer a ship from scratch. That's literally the evidence that proves or disproves your claim. I am offering an opportunity to provide evidence and yet you are unwilling. You cannot claim I'm opposed to evidence while I am suggesting exactly how you can prove your point. Of course, we BOTH know it would entail weeks of repetition and grind and hence isn't feasible or reasonable, which is exactly my point. Your options are A) perform the engineering process from the start or B) accept it's not a reasonable request and by extension neither is it a reasonable request of any other person playing this game. Choice is your's.

Childish insulting comparisons are unhelpful.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Totally different audiences. NMS is the bubble gum kids game. It's for people who like cell phone games.

Elite is for people who like to argue over the realistic lighting (or lack there of) of the background map of stars.

Classic cantankerous out of touch attitude.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

The bit in bold is a red herring. I don't think anybody has ever said it is a quick process.
And there's the rub.

Some players just want it quick.

It appears to me that you feel anything that takes time to accomplish is a tedious grind. That's your own subjective opinion.
Others find that just by engaging in the game they gain a lot of long term fun.

And in the process of having fun... they find that they have also had the opportunity to gather plenty of engineering materials as a side effect. NOT as an aim in itself.

The problem as I see it is one of perspective, not of game design.

Some people's perspective, it appears, is that they absolutely must have everything that they want quickly. If that isn't possible, they view the process as a grind.

You have my sympathy.

I don’t think people just want it quick. I think the issue as it stands is that the tasks are quick, but have to be repeated a bunch of times.

I (and I assume others) want it to be better. Idc if it takes the same amount of time, but the processes/tasks themselves could have more variety and depth.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

Ah, no thanks. I have spent a very enjoyable 9 months getting where I am. But I want to see where I go from here. For example, I want to gain the services of the shield engineer guy. He wants 200 tons of gold to get my shields to the next level. So I need a big ship to get those 200 tons of gold. While one part of me would be fine going back to a sidewinder (I mean starting all over again, knowing what I know now, it would be a LOT of fun, like my second time thru Dark Souls!) it would not be much use for mining and shipping 200 tons of gold would it?

Plus my long term goal us to have a totally G5 combat ship so I can wing up with some other Judge Dredd types and go gank some griefers! Man that will be fun! Going back to the beginning is not going to help me there either, so once again, thanks for the offer, but no. Not until I have tasted the tears of some griefers! Preferably in a martini.....

So, back to why none if this is a grind for me: I think the reason why I enjoy this game so much, and why the engineering aspect makes it even better is that I just love flying space ships thru space. Just as I really enjoy (occasionally) taking a buggy for a drive on an alien planet. I am guessing it's because of all the sci fi I read as a kid: Heinlein, Harrison, 2000AD comic, Wyndham etc, and watching the first 3 Star Wars movies, they all had a big impact on a young kid. And that young kid is still here, even tho he grew up to be a grizzled 40-something health care professional and business owner.

That grizzled health care professional absolutely loves flying space ships thru space in his free time! Of course one day I may get bored of flying space ships thru space, but by then TES 6 should be out so I will be off on another grand adventure.....

Nobody cares about the G2 upgraded ship that you “didn’t grind” for

 

[DeletedUser191218]

I don’t think people just want it quick. I think the issue as it stands is that the tasks are quick, but have to be repeated a bunch of times.

I (and I assume others) want it to be better. Idc if it takes the same amount of time, but the processes/tasks themselves could have more variety and depth.

The problem is it's boring. There's a myth popular among the ED white knights that 'git gud' means sitting on your backside every night repeating the same dull, easy, uninteresting small tasks over and over again. Perhaps this was acceptable gameplay in 1984. It isn't in 2019.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

A good part of the time spent on wasting our time on ED game mechanics isnt just on grinding, but on having to deal with bugs or yet another goalpost shifting with requirements. It all adds up to a level of frustration that surpasses any will to play.

 

[Brrokk]

I asked if a dev can remove engineers and materials so then you can engineer a ship from scratch. That's literally the evidence that proves or disproves your claim. I am offering an opportunity to provide evidence and yet you are unwilling. You cannot claim I'm opposed to evidence while I am suggesting exactly how you can prove your point. Of course, we BOTH know it would entail weeks of repetition and grind and hence isn't feasible or reasonable, which is exactly my point. Your options are A) perform the engineering process from the start or B) accept it's not a reasonable request and by extension neither is it a reasonable request of any other person playing this game. Choice is your's.

Childish insulting comparisons are unhelpful.

Just for a reminder, I posted this list of assertions (particularly the numbered items):

Reduce the grind

Ok... How about you put your money where your mouth is? Clear your save (post pics or videos as evidence, incl a timestamp), then post a picture of the best CZ loadout you can muster in less than an hour. Bonus points if you can post a loadout for a ship that can handle Thargoids an hour after...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I'm offering screenshots in support of my claims.

I'm not interested in supporting things I haven't claimed and I'm not going to reset or otherwise nerf my game to provide any other evidence. This is just a forum thing, but tonight I'm planning a good couple of hours actual gaming, and the forum isn't going to impact on it. If screenshots can't convince you now, they still wouldn't after I've jumped through your hoops.

 

[Garbarrage]

Plus my long term goal us to have a totally G5 combat ship so I can wing up with some other Judge Dredd types and go gank some griefers!

So you don't have a fully Engineered combat ship yet? So, haven't experienced the grind to the fullest it would seem.

I have most of the Engineers unlocked. I have a combat FDL A-rated with G5 upgrades for 2 loadouts. I also have a combat Anaconda upgraded with G5 upgrades and a G5 exploration build. I have an Asp Explorer which is fully upgraded to G5 and some half finished smaller ships (Viper, Cobra Mk3 and Vulture iirc). These were done over about a year which included several extended breaks from the game. They were a tedious pain in the butt to finish. Each time, there was some novelty at the start and I enjoyed doing it (kind of). It did however involve so much repetitive gameplay that by the end of each upgrade, I couldn't be arsed playing anymore. So I'd take another break and so on.

I came back to check out Thargoids. I flew to the first Guardian site, did a few rounds which were mindnumbingly boring and far too easy. I examined my haul, did a quick mental calculations of how many runs it would take to put an interesting build together, then logged out. The atmosphere was awesome at the Guardian site, but this was completely overshadowed by the repetition. The same could be said of Dav's Hope.

I returned after some time to do some exploration, but "tuning in" planetary bodies 500 times became a tedious grind also. It's super easy, repetitive and ultimately mind-numbingly boring.

After the Guardian sites and comparing the gameplay to Engineering material collection and the FSS, there was no denying that tedium is a strategy employed by FDev to squeeze longevity out of content, in my opinion. So, I made a decision to quit the game until there is a material change in how they design their gameplay. It's unlikely that a developer will make such a drastic fundamental change, but I don't believe it's unprecedented.

My definition of Grind
Time ≠ Grind
Repetition - Skill = Unrewarding Gameplay = Grind

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Just for a reminder, I posted this list of assertions (particularly the numbered items):

Reduce the grind

Ok... How about you put your money where your mouth is? Clear your save (post pics or videos as evidence, incl a timestamp), then post a picture of the best CZ loadout you can muster in less than an hour. Bonus points if you can post a loadout for a ship that can handle Thargoids an hour after...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I'm offering screenshots in support of my claims.

I'm not interested in supporting things I haven't claimed and I'm not going to reset or otherwise nerf my game to provide any other evidence. This is just a forum thing, but tonight I'm planning a good couple of hours actual gaming, and the forum isn't going to impact on it. If screenshots can't convince you now, they still wouldn't after I've jumped through your hoops.

I'm happy to look at your screenshots but not entirely sure what they will prove. Grind is a function of time and repitition. You will only presumably show us you have spent a long time in game. Unless you somehow present 2 hours of play time with a G3 FDL to show for it....

 

[DeletedUser191218]

So you don't have a fully Engineered combat ship yet? So, haven't experienced the grind to the fullest it would seem.

I have most of the Engineers unlocked. I have a combat FDL A-rated with G5 upgrades for 2 loadouts. I also have a combat Anaconda upgraded with G5 upgrades and a G5 exploration build. I have an Asp Explorer which is fully upgraded to G5 and some half finished smaller ships (Viper, Cobra Mk3 and Vulture iirc). These were done over about a year which included several extended breaks from the game. They were a tedious pain in the butt to finish. Each time, there was some novelty at the start and I enjoyed doing it (kind of). It did however involve so much repetitive gameplay that by the end of each upgrade, I couldn't be arsed playing anymore. So I'd take another break and so on.

I came back to check out Thargoids. I flew to the first Guardian site, did a few rounds which were mindnumbingly boring and far too easy. I examined my haul, did a quick mental calculations of how many runs it would take to put an interesting build together, then logged out. The atmosphere was awesome at the Guardian site, but this was completely overshadowed by the repetition. The same could be said of Dav's Hope.

I returned after some time to do some exploration, but "tuning in" planetary bodies 500 times became a tedious grind also. It's super easy, repetitive and ultimately mind-numbingly boring.

After the Guardian sites and comparing the gameplay to Engineering material collection and the FSS, there was no denying that tedium is a strategy employed by FDev to squeeze longevity out of content, in my opinion. So, I made a decision to quit the game until there is a material change in how they design their gameplay. It's unlikely that a developer will make such a drastic fundamental change, but I don't believe it's unprecedented.

My definition of Grind
Time ≠ Grind
Repetition - Skill = Unrewarding Gameplay = Grind

Good argument well put. This, I would suggest, mirrors the experience of most of us. I'm not going near the guardian sites any more. It's incredibly dull. Cool to find and all that but after X number of relogs and repetitions the novelty certainly wore off.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Are we all looking forward to the happy fun resource gathering grind everyone's going to be doing in order to move a fleet carrier?

 

[Garbarrage]

Good argument well put. This, I would suggest, mirrors the experience of most of us. I'm not going near the guardian sites any more. It's incredibly dull. Cool to find and all that but after X number of relogs and repetitions the novelty certainly wore off.

.... but you need not relog. You could just go to a different Guardian site.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

.... but you need not relog. You could just go to a different Guardian site.

Really?! Oh I'm so glad you told me. I'd never have known. I could have spent hours jumping between sites instead of saving time by relogging? Damn!! Why did no-one tell me! So much more grind I could have enjoyed!

(For the avoidance of doubt, I'm being sarcastic)

 

[Garbarrage]

Really?! Oh I'm so glad you told me. I'd never have known. I could have spent hours jumping between sites instead of saving time by relogging? Damn!! Why did no-one tell me! So much more grind I could have enjoyed!

(For the avoidance of doubt, I'm being sarcastic)

For the avoidance of doubt, so was I.

 

[Rampant]

I don’t think people just want it quick.

Ahem, I think that's exactly what this is really all about ...

Check out the OP, he appears to want a G3 engineered FdL in just 2 hours of play!

... Unless you somehow present 2 hours of play time with a G3 FDL to show for it....

All the talk of "better" gameplay is just a smokescreen, as far as I can tell. Nobody would turn down "better" gameplay, but you'd have to be incredibly naïve to believe FDev could deliver this successfully, quickly, and to the universal praise of every player. Please bear in mind thst this is a one-game-fits-all approach by FDev, and any changes would be difficult to gain approval of all players. I reckon that FDev walk this tightrope reasonably well. Sure, it ain't perfect, but I always said never let "perfect" be the enemy of a "good"/"fair"/"broadly acceptable" solution

 

[House0fDerp]

Ahem, I think that's exactly what this is really all about ...

Check out the OP, he appears to want a G3 engineered FdL in just 2 hours of play!

You must be reading an entirely different op than the one i read.

All the talk of "better" gameplay is just a smokescreen, as far as I can tell. Nobody would turn down "better" gameplay, but you'd have to be incredibly naïve to believe FDev could deliver this successfully, quickly, and to the universal praise of every player. Please bear in mind thst this is a one-game-fits-all approach by FDev, and any changes would be difficult to gain approval of all players. I reckon that FDev walk this tightrope reasonably well. Sure, it ain't perfect, but I always said never let "perfect" be the enemy of a "good"/"fair"/"broadly acceptable" solution

Accuses others of smokescreens, then goes on to suggest that improvements can't be done because not everyone agrees on what is best and thus requesting better gameplay is invalid.

It's like saying we live in a world where subjective views prevent any creation of consensus on whether things generally are good or bad.

 

[WinterKing2112]

Nobody cares about the G2 upgraded ship that you “didn’t grind” for

Nearly @ G5 in all modules actually.

 

[AgentGB]

So... if its been confirmed that we can buy this unique fuel for carriers instead of mining it, that vastly reduces the grind & seems to be quite welcomed already.

Perhaps the idea of being able to buy materials for engineering should be considered alongside this now.

 

[Spacegamejunkie]

I want to go to a location where I will play the game at.
Sorry but you gotta do the Rabbit Hop 120 times to get there.....GRIND
Hey I want to customize my Ship to be what I want.
Sorry but you gotta do the fetch all, and run the RNG gauntlet before you can do that.....GRIND
Question is How much GRIND, before a Game turns into WORK, which is the reason why you play a game in the first place.
OK Devs are at WORK, they do not need to sit us in their Cubicle.
Maybe they are mad at us for the Time they have to spend there GRINDING?