Relative mouse nerf or Hotas control needs a bit of love.

[Slange Lands]

Some thoughts. I was a devoted fairly successful full hotas full fa off pilot but changed to mouse and throttle.

1. Short range rail guns(SRBS) are impossible for me on hotas. I devotedly tried for three months. SRBs are my favorite weapon and are the most viable high damage dealing hitscan in the game for the fdl. Sadly, hardly anyone uses them. I got so frustrated I switched to mouse. Instant success. For those on hotas, I would like to know how many are actually very successful with short range rail guns because you are god-like. No issue with LONG range rail guns on hotas. Could Frontier fix the srb rail guns for hotas users?

2. I was glad to switch to mouse because I am female and all joysticks are engineered for male hands. I had to glue all sorts of devices to the buttons in order to reach some of them. With mouse, my hand doesn't hurt anymore. And I am more efficient.
3. Mouse buttons do occasionaly fail, but I am guessing that since there are less moving parts, mice fail a lot less than sticks. I am a pilot not a welder. I was using a Thrustmaster 16000 whose yaw was always breaking. I bought three. Too expensive. On the other hand, my Razer mice are expensive,too, but they are still working.

4.The rotationals on the mouse took me months to master in order for me to match the freedom of rotational movement I had on the hotas. The hotas does have the advantage of immediately feeling like you can dance your ship on an area the size of a postage stamp. With mouse, fluidity of rotationals was more difficult for me. Pitch,yaw and roll actuation on a mouse + "x" setup must become thoughtless, effortless and deeply ingrained into muscle memory if it is to match the freedom of a stick. No easy feat.

Once again, if you choose to use SRB rail guns, I honestly don't think there is a choice. I hope I am wrong.


Addendum: The mouse widget is great for rails once the canopy is blown. But it needs to be much much smaller for gameplay when the canopy is up. I can't see the "snap" on rails because the widget is way tooooo large.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Addendum: The mouse widget is great for rails once the canopy is blown. But it needs to be much much smaller for gameplay when the canopy is up. I can't see the "snap" on rails because the widget is way tooooo large.

I suspect that the mouse widget is purposefully the size it is for two options:
1. As an accessibility tool it must be visible.
2. If it were too convenient it would be too readily used to circumvent canopy breached mechanics (though why the HUD is capable of internal holograms except for the aiming reticule which is projected onto the glass - is beyond me).

 

[Shields Offline]

no we want to show that it would be very helpful when a technic like relative mouse would be also implemented as option for stick.

This is absurd. Joysticks and gamepad sticks already have this. Relative mouse literally - not figuratively - emulates how sticks physically function. I'm not sure you understand what you're asking for - I certainly don't understand what you're asking for, since it already exists.

 

[Just Paul]

no we want to show that it would be very helpful when a technic like relative mouse would be also implemented as option for stick.

Your center for the stick would be anywhere but the physical center after a few movements. I don't think that's what you want, do you? I bet there is software with which you can emulate a mouse with your stick. I know Steam can do it for all the major gamepads, but nobody would use relative mouse on an input device that returns to center by itself. Relative mouse just "returns" the input to the center (no counter) similar on how the springs move the stick back to center. Higher relative mouse setting == stiffer springs.

 

[TEBORI]

in view of my video
mouse
i just moved up and down it was not important how far in detail - it just stabiliced

stick
i had to be extemely careful to try to give exact the counter rotation manuelly

i think meanwhile my idea i suggested how to implement this for sticks could have some problems cause sticks have limited move area.

 

[Hole in Head]

There's nothing at all wrong with Relative Mouse. Just implement being able to adjust curves in game, and call it a day.

 

[Mgram]

I gotta agree with many of the other folks here, nerfing relative mouse is not the way to go about this. You should not nerf someone else's playstyle, it not your fault (or theirs) that they chose to play that way. The right solution here would be to add some in-game controller curve and other fine-tuning adjustments.

More options, not less.

 

[BHARD99]

...and that‘s it! Don‘t nerf, but create an in-game option for HOTAS users to compensate the advantage of relativ-mouse users by flying permanent FA-off.

 

[TEBORI]

what does the audience here think in view of a semi fa off mode for stick.
meaning the translation is fa off the rotation is not

to go in more detail
the 6 thrusters (for back, left right, up down) would be fa off - so you can use the full advantage of newtonien flying
but
the rotation (pitch, yaw and roll) is bound to fa on - means the aiming and the 3 rotation possibilities would be as stable as now in fa on

oh and this is meant as additional switchable option of course. the actuel control style for stick should be kept as well as they are.

 

[Shields Offline]

Frontier has addressed this point in the past and said that they will not do it because of balance reasons - they want FA off to have a degree of difficulty, which this suggestion (which has come up before) would almost entirely remove.

It's easier to fly with a joystick, it's easier to do precision aim with a mouse. This suggestion would be horribly unbalanced and remove one of the primary skill elements associated with FA off.

Look, if I can do it on a gamepad, you can do it with your joystick. Keep practicing and you'll get there.

 

[TEBORI]

@Shields Offline
i am doing good with m&k fgs i am not speaking on my behalf here.

the mouse is a more preciouse input device from its nature so i dont see where a semi fa off mode for sticks would be overpowered.
i think it would be pretty balanced with actuel rel mouse&k fa off combat

 

[Fuego Estelar]

I am editing the main text, asking only for "giving some love" to HOTAS and stick users.

I can´t do it with the title, I will ask a moderator.

Believe it wasn´t my intention to start a big drama

 

[Gwydion [RoA]]

You would not believe it anyway. Tinne and myself switched because of broken Joysticks and did not want to spent any further Money in peripherals.

Additionally I do like very much not to have such a heavy chunk on my desk anymore, even if it was very hard to learn flying with M&K and I am still not gud.

 

[Ozric]

I am editing the main text, asking only for "giving some love" to HOTAS and stick users.

I can´t do it with the title, I will ask a moderator.

Sorry but I'm not going to edit the title of a thread that is this old, especially one as contentious as this. If you want to change the idea of the thread then I would suggest you come up with a proposal outlining how you would like HOTAS users to be "given some love", create a new thread, and then report this one as ask for it to be closed.

 

[Fuego Estelar]

Sorry but I'm not going to edit the title of a thread that is this old, especially one as contentious as this. If you want to change the idea of the thread then I would suggest you come up with a proposal outlining how you would like HOTAS users to be "given some love", create a new thread, and then report this one as ask for it to be closed.

Ok then, could you please close this one? I will open a new one this evening.


Regards and thank you

 

[Morbad]

in view of my video
mouse
i just moved up and down it was not important how far in detail - it just stabiliced

Without the widget, we can't see what you're doing or the phenomena you've claimed is present with the mouse.

I was using a Thrustmaster 16000 whose yaw was always breaking. I bought three. Too expensive. On the other hand, my Razer mice are expensive,too, but they are still working.

That's because the T16000 has a really cheap twist pot and sketchy soldering. Not every stick has the same affliction, just as not every mouse has scrollwheels of as dubious quality as the ones I tend to favor.

the mouse is a more preciouse input device from its nature so i dont see where a semi fa off mode for sticks would be overpowered.

If you are asking for stick specific FA Off rotational damping, there really isn't any way you could prevent it from being used with mice as well.

Just as I can emulate a mouse with a stick (which, in an absolute best case scenario, does nothing except introduce a tiny bit of input latency), I can emulate a two axis stick with a mouse.

 

[TEBORI]

@Morbad

there really isn't any way you could prevent it from being used with mice as well.

agreed but it would be a disadvantage compared to the actuel relative mouse possibilities.

Without the widget, we can't see what you're doing or the phenomena you've claimed is present with the mouse.

also agreed i am thinking already how to make a better video where its documented with numbers what i want to show.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Closing as requested by OP.