General Remove private Lobby and single Player

[Rat Catcher]

I've read a lot of posts made by players who approached PP for the modules and talk about preference of this or that, the question I have is: did you have ever been part of an open-only organized powerplay group?

No, why should I? I only want the modules, the only way I can get them is to 'be part of whatever gang" for 4 weeks, then jump ship and not bother again.

You do your thing, that's fine. If PP modules were available through another route then PP could go as open as it wishes.

Needed, obviously:

 

[Rebel Yell]

What relevance does whether, or not, a player has engaged in a game feature that does not require PvP with other players in one of the two multi-player game modes - in a game where other players are optional? That the answer would be used by some to "weight" feedback, i.e. to dismiss that which comes from "the wrong group", is telling.

The challenge posed by other players is optional for those who can play in the multi-player modes, in this game, by design.

Prismatics and Pack-Hounds are quite useful though.

Indeed, the challenge in terms of PvP may happen but it is definitely not the norm.

In other words, there's definitely some kind of higher risk (i.e. at PP expansions, when fortifying and system is being undermined or at the capital/hq, under turmoil most of the times) but under most of the circumstances may be prevented/countered -> further game mechanics (i.e. escorts, patrols, etc).

When I've joined KUMO eight months ago I budgeted 500m cr. of loss in my account, for rebuys / donations / forts whatever related to PP. I'm +2.6bn since then, playing for PP open-play only, I made a ton of good friends and had a lot of fun with them, so I don't really see where are the drawbacks.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Indeed, the challenge in terms of PvP may happen but it is definitely not the norm.

In other words, there's definitely some kind of higher risk (i.e. at PP expansions, when fortifying and system is being undermined or at the capital/hq, under turmoil most of the times) but under most of the circumstances may be prevented/countered -> further game mechanics (i.e. escorts, patrols, etc).

When I've joined KUMO eight months ago I budgeted 500m cr. of loss in my account, for rebuys / donations / forts whatever related to PP. I'm +2.6bn since then, playing for PP only, I made a ton of good friends and had a lot of fun with them, so I don't really see where are the drawbacks.

Sounds like fun was had - in this case.

Not all players find PvP to be "fun" - for some it's a tediously predictable waste of limited game time. Not seeing the drawbacks, from the perspective of one who enjoys PvP is probably to be expected, as it is common for those who don't share a preference for something to be disregarded by those who enjoy something. That a subset of the player-base seeks to change the game to suit themselves at the expense of, and with no consideration given to, those who would be affected by such changes has been obvious for years now.

Thankfully Frontier foresaw this when they designed the game around three game modes sharing a single galaxy of features that don't require any player to engage in PvP to affect apart from CQC (which is out of game with no direct effects on the galaxy).

If fundamental change were to be considered then it'd be more equitable to split the galaxy - leaving the existing tri-modal shared galaxy as it is and offering an Open-only galaxy for those who wish to play that way (with no transfer of assets between galaxies permitted as to do so would offer trivial exploitation methods).

 

[Lord Rak]

I've read a lot of posts made by players who approached PP for the modules and talk about preference of this or that, the question I have is: did you have ever been part of an open-only organized powerplay group?

Dont take it as a criticism, as I am not judging, but just weighting what has been said as feedback.

Correct me if I am wrong, but at the end of the day it looks like most of these posts are coming from who never looked for that kind of challenge.

I play alone, most time in Open but alone so I must say PP and BGS is a huge part of my game play and I can image it is the same case for Solo players because there is nothing more you can do in ED galaxy when you play alone. I wont do PvP because every time I tried I was ganged by some squadron, there is even video around here showing how I was ganged one time. There is no fair play in PvP, I play in open to meet other cmdrs, not to fight them.

edit: can someone explain to me how 4 or 5 people can change a gameplay just to make themself happy with out taking under consideration 99% of other players who doesn't want changes ?

 

[Lord Rak]

Deleted post, sorry.

 

[Angelpichu]

FYI to gankers, even if the game switches to open only, you won't have more targets, because people will get ganked and quit rather than be frustrated at having to be someone else's entertainment at the cost of their own enjoyment of the game.

 

[ethelred]

I play alone, most time in Open but alone so I must say PP and BGS is a huge part of my game play and I can image it is the same case for Solo players because there is nothing more you can do in ED galaxy when you play alone. I wont do PvP because every time I tried I was ganged by some squadron, there is even video around here showing how I was ganged one time. There is no fair play in PvP, I play in open to meet other cmdrs, not to fight them.

edit: can someone explain to me how 4 or 5 people can change a gameplay just to make themself happy with out taking under consideration 99% of other players who doesn't want changes ?

Sure - the squeaky wheel gets the grease!

More seriously, the forums are rife with suggestions for the whole game. The open/solo/Pg discussion is probably the most famous cul de sac in the game, but that's not to say some points may be valid for pp or any other gaming loops.

You're obvs happy with how PP is currently implemented - all voices are valid here.

It's no democracy as FDEV are in charge and seem unlikely to change anything in the foreseeable future.

Limited democracy or populism was used for the timing for ship xfer, but that hasn't been repeated.

 

[Lord Rak]

Sure - the squeaky wheel gets the grease!

More seriously, the forums are rife with suggestions for the whole game. The open/solo/Pg discussion is probably the most famous cul de sac in the game, but that's not to say some points may be valid for pp or any other gaming loops.

You're obvs happy with how PP is currently implemented - all voices are valid here.

It's no democracy as FDEV are in charge and seem unlikely to change anything in the foreseeable future.

Limited democracy or populism was used for the timing for ship xfer, but that hasn't been repeated.

Well, when some is suggestion a crazy idea like split a galaxy to Open and Solo or PP should be PvP only. I'm here for a good argument lol
I know and everyone in here knows, this is never going to happened and even if they will implement some kind of a change to it and people wont like it, they will faces thousands of complains and they will have no choice but to change it back. You can see it in Odyssey, they already had to roll back on few changes they implemented from Horizon because no one liked them.

 

[ethelred]

Yeah probably.

I used to think flat Open only would be best for PP, but on reflection I think the whole loop of gameplay (for want of a better word) could do with an overhaul with PvP and PvE elements.

Certainly it can be improved.

To be honest, there's lots of gameplay that could be improved irrespective of mode - indeed gameplay should come first and how it looks in each mode should be considered in that context.

It's not a design decision philosophy that Fdev seem particularly keen on however.

 

[Lord Rak]

Maybe they should create a mini galaxy for PvPer only so they go there and duke it out between each other. since PvP community is very small, I think 100 systems would do it.

 

[ethelred]

Maybe.

That's what I'm talking about though - gameplay and activities first and then think about how they would look in modes.

Too often these discussions are solely about modes, which should be a secondary design consideration.

 

[Rebel Yell]

edit: can someone explain to me how 4 or 5 people can change a gameplay just to make themself happy with out taking under consideration 99% of other players who doesn't want changes ?

Because it's worth trying,

FYI to gankers, even if the game switches to open only, you won't have more targets, because people will get ganked and quit rather than be frustrated at having to be someone else's entertainment at the cost of their own enjoyment of the game.

...until they do not interfere with PP they can play solo/pg. Modes will remain, we are discussing about bonding certain activities (powerplay) to open or keep them separated between open play and other modes.

Maybe they should create a mini galaxy for PvPer only so they go there and duke it out between each other. since PvP community is very small, I think 100 systems would do it.

You're making a confusion here, the "PvP community" isn't that involved in PP/BGS as they are already busy shooting at each other somewhere, whilst according to Inara the 46% of registered accounts are pledged to a superpower.

 

[KingTurtle]

As the title says: Remove private Lobby and single Player. Why? Because right now people are having influences on the galaxy and you can't stop them from having it. Best examples are Community events and Powerplay. My power was expanding into a system and I sat there for over an hour and couldn't find one player, yet the undermining bar goes higher and higher because people are hiding in single Player or private Lobby. This shouldn't be the case, if enemys are undermining a system, we should be able to fight back the undermining (maybe even add Powerplay missions?). Same goes for Community events.

I agree only with making Powerplay Open only, but we should not be penalized if we leave the power immediately. People sometimes like going exploring, trucking, or mining without some griefer with super overpowered engineer ship killing them every time they jump into a system. if I want to pvp in powerplay 1 week, and take it break the next week to go trucking I should be allowed to go to Private Group or Solo as long as I leave the power.

 

[Elliot Coleman]

There is no fair play in PvP

That isn't entirely true. There used to be a weekly player event called Wyrd Wednesday where a bunch of PvP guys got together in Wyrd to duke it out in duels or wing vs wing fights. No fight to the death unless it was agreed upon beforehand. It was a gentlemen's affair. Not sure if The Citadel is still running that event every week, as I've fallen out of the PvP loop since most of those guys switched to Odyssey (I haven't yet).

I agree only with making Powerplay Open only, but we should not be penalized if we leave the power immediately. People sometimes like going exploring, trucking, or mining without some griefer with super overpowered engineer ship killing them every time they jump into a system. if I want to pvp in powerplay 1 week, and take it break the next week to go trucking I should be allowed to go to Private Group or Solo as long as I leave the power.

I've been playing exclusively in open since day 1 and I've yet to get ganked. There have been several attempts, especially when traversing Deciat to do some engineering, but thusfar no one has succeeded. Reckon I must be part rabbit.

 

[DemiserofD]

If you want an unexploitable way of integrating pvp into powerplay, an elo system is probably the best way to achieve it. There's a good reason why so many other games use one.

The basic premise is simple; each week, everyone who participates in pvp is given a ranking. If you win more than you lose, your ranking will be higher; if you lose more than you win, your ranking will be lower. And if someone with a high ranking kills someone with a low ranking, they don't rise much, while if a low rank kills a high rank, they get a lot. Points are never created or destroyed, only traded. At the end of the week, you reward players based on their ranking. Someone in the top 10% of players gets a lot of points for their team; someone in the bottom 10% gets a small amount of points for their team.

This system cannot be effectively gamed; for example, say you make five alts for the purpose of grinding elo. You have them join the enemy faction and you kill the first one until you stop getting points anymore. Then you kill the second one - only, you're much higher rank than him now. You can only kill that one a few times before you stop getting significant rank. Then you kill the third one, only now you're not getting ANY rank.

Now you're in the top 25%, but you've added three enemy accounts that are in the bottom 50%, virtually equalizing it out. And now, you're well above your intended ELO, so if you get into a fight, you'll tend to lose more elo than you gain.

Yes, there may still be convoluted ways of manipulating elo, but they start to become complicated enough to be easily recognizable, and they can easily be solved by banning the players in question from Open.

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It would also be neat if CQC were made a part of powerplay, somehow. Powerplay is more than just warring over systems, after all; it's a competition of influence, and winning a big, highly-visible event gains influence as well. There's a reason the various countries join the Olympics.

And the best part is, CQC is, for the most part, fair, so you don't need to worry about equipment or anything other than skill. And if people could get powerplay merits just for doing CQC, I think they definitely would give it a shot, potentially dragging it back from the abyss!

 

[ethelred]

Having CQC as a part of powerplay is a great idea, it would certainly give people a reason to play!

 

[Robert Maynard]

At present, CQC does not directly affect the shared galaxy and not all players can play CQC.

If CQC were used to directly affect the shared galaxy then it would affect players who can't engage in it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The only idea I have that involves Open Only (in part) is to really preserve what Open gets like in Powerplay, which is crazy real time group on group fighting. Powerplay is as unabstracted as it gets, and if Open is to be 'Open' then that free form feel to me needs to be kept. Personally I've never seen Powerplay as some Red Baron 1 on 1 fighting, because its not like that at all and for me the CQC angle just ups the abstraction.

The problem is (which I've tried to think about a lot) is make a PvE loop that provides graded danger and is fun, over and over. Open sidesteps this, because players are ever changing and do unexpected things and the only real way to emulate that is to have the PvE more tricky and less blasty.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The only idea I have that involves Open Only (in part) is to really preserve what Open gets like in Powerplay, which is crazy real time group on group fighting. Powerplay is as unabstracted as it gets, and if Open is to be 'Open' then that free form feel to me needs to be kept. Personally I've never seen Powerplay as some Red Baron 1 on 1 fighting, because its not like that at all and for me the CQC angle just ups the abstraction.

Open has never been as "Open" as some want it to be - with the ability to play in the other modes which affect the same shared galaxy, the fact that players can choose to use menu exit at any time and the existence of the block feature which has no restrictions on its use and has only ever been made more effective and easier to use over the years. Something as apparently simple as a blockade is not possible because players can travel in one of the other game modes and appear at a location in Open.

The problem is (which I've tried to think about a lot) is make a PvE loop that provides graded danger and is fun, over and over. Open sidesteps this, because players are ever changing and do unexpected things and the only real way to emulate that is to have the PvE more tricky and less blasty.

The former would benefit all players - the latter, in isolation, would actively exclude players who don't want to play among those who would engage them in PvP.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Open has never been as "Open" as some want it to be - with the ability to play in the other modes which affect the same shared galaxy, the fact that players can choose to use menu exit at any time and the existence of the block feature which has no restrictions on its use and has only ever been made more effective and easier to use over the years. Something as apparently simple as a blockade is not possible because players can travel in one of the other game modes and appear at a location in Open.

Which is not talking about the point I was making really, is it? My point is that Open in Powerplay is about that direct confrontation as you go about your work, and taking that away diminishes that feel.

The former would benefit all players - the latter, in isolation, would actively exclude players who don't want to play among those who would engage them in PvP.

Which again is not what I was talking about, was it?