Modes Restrict or remove PvE from the game, making Open a nicer place

[Jockey79]

Then again, it actually mirrors Real Life(TM). Our economy is Corporation-driven, but State-controlled to various degrees, depending on the country. Some are lax about it, some are protectionist to the extreme. CCP compares to a few European countries that 'let it rip' more often than not, and it makes the game have such depth that can't even be compared to ED's economy (let's agree on that at least?)

It's actually easy to make money in the markets, but sure there's risk involved. Also, scamming, market manipulating, these sorts of things that Real Life also has.



Then, you do enjoy player driven economy [heart]

Actually, the issue with CCP / EVE is it has 2 things going on with it's economy.
You have the in game item value, but you also have the game time value as well (the value of buying a subscription to the game, with in game money).

So the player economy is controlled by what value CCP set for the cost of buying game time/ subscription.
Which means it's not actually player driven. but CCP controlled.

It was something like 1.4 billion ISK to buy 30 days game time when I looked last.
Buying 30 days game time from CCP with real money and selling it on the market was better value - which is what CCP want.

 

[Roybe]

Then again, it actually mirrors Real Life(TM). Our economy is Corporation-driven, but State-controlled to various degrees, depending on the country. Some are lax about it, some are protectionist to the extreme. CCP compares to a few European countries that 'let it rip' more often than not, and it makes the game have such depth that can't even be compared to ED's economy (let's agree on that at least?)

It's actually easy to make money in the markets, but sure there's risk involved. Also, scamming, market manipulating, these sorts of things that Real Life also has.



Then, you do enjoy player driven economy [heart]

That was one of my first questions/posts on these forums...I enjoy playing and disrupting markets...but this game ain't that way. It can't be. The way the market prices are determined is a set equations based on the median galactic price...an untapped market has the best price you will ever receive on the sale...once activity starts in the market the prices are pushed to the median galactic price, squeezing out the profit...it takes 3 - 5 days for the market to rebound...if no one commits a sale or purchase within it. Oh, and each system is an economic island unto itself. This is also a reason that the galaxy map only shows exports and imports...not profitability.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/50812-Is-there-information-on-the-economy

 

[EvE4evah]

Actually, the issue with CCP / EVE is it has 2 things going on with it's economy.
You have the in game item value, but you also have the game time value as well (the value of buying a subscription to the game, with in game money).

So the player economy is controlled by what value CCP set for the cost of buying game time/ subscription.
Which means it's not actually player driven. but CCP controlled.

It was something like 1.4 billion ISK to buy 30 days game time when I looked last.
Buying 30 days game time from CCP with real money and selling it on the market was better value - which is what CCP want.

Brother, I won't further discuss the other game's economy because we're way beyond off-topic even if it's a very interesting dialogue for me.
That said, all you've said is almost spot on, CCP uses the market to make money for the company which I have nothing against really, OTOH we have two things: players can and do produce / farm / mission / Corp tax enough to gather isk for plexing their accounts for the rest of their lives if needed, when I was a wormholer I used to make 50b isk a month, enough to pay for my accounts for 50 months at the time, each month. Spacerich. A Titan per month, if you will. I still opted to pay for the accounts with RL money, the same way I currently log weekly in ED to buy random cosmetics - out of love for the dev.

The second thing is, yes, CCP loosely controls the markets, still there's plenty of room for playing with the markets, influencing the prices, controlling the demands and availability of components, ships, minerals all around. Hence why we've even had reknowned economists playing the game…

 

[Theodrid]

Oh for god's sake, more 'I'm so desperate to defend my BGS faction' 'so desperate to defend my PP interests' cow dung. Guess what? - you can't do either if you are at every CG, every POI, founders, to shoot every hollow square that moves, you can't be in two places at once. But tell you what, keep up the pretence, keep up the making a mockery of the term 'roleplay' until you move on to your next pretend 'let's create more targets in open' fake bugbear.

 

[Jockey79]

an untapped market has the best price you will ever receive on the sale...once activity starts in the market the prices are pushed to the median galactic price, squeezing out the profit...it takes 3 - 5 days for the market to rebound...if no one commits a sale or purchase within it.

Which goes to show, that game was built for traders.
As the only aspect of the game that resets back to "new" is the trade markets.

You can leave Sag A* alone all you like, but that "first scan" will always be there. No matter how much you explore.
You can stow your guns all you like, but that newbie that was ganked, will forever be in Mobius.

The market however, don't care if you're in Open / Group / Solo - it will go back to new without you.

This game was made for people who love Microsoft Excel.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I can promise you...

I'd take the statement seriously but... SDC.

 

[EvE4evah]

Oh for god's sake, more 'I'm so desperate to defend my BGS faction' 'so desperate to defend my PP interests' cow dung. Guess what? - you can't do either if you are at every CG, every POI, founders, to shoot every hollow square that moves, you can't be in two places at once. But tell you what, keep up the pretence, keep up the making a mockery of the term 'roleplay' until you move on to your next pretend 'let's create more targets in open' fake bugbear.

Love you too. Long time

 

[Stigbob]

Thx for rep

"don't inspect a gifted horse's teeth"
Does English have a similar saying?

Posting from the past, but I like sayings so put up with it.

The English version is "never look a gift horse in the mouth" almost exactly the same, small world.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm out of rep for you Eve4eva but I've got a red hot rep tip instead, if you go to the Christmas hat thread and Santa up your avatar TJ will rep you for it : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/394960-Get-you-Christmas-hat-on-here

 

[EvE4evah]

I'm out of rep for you Eve4eva but I've got a red hot rep tip instead, if you go to the Christmas hat thread and Santa up your avatar TJ will rep you for it : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/394960-Get-you-Christmas-hat-on-here

OMG I'll actually boot my old PC just for that, thanks a lot, Stig!!!


PS
I wanna see how Jockey will manage to red hat his, there doesn't seem to have enough space in it
Also OSS (forgot the name), the guy with the very interesting quotes avatar

 

[khaos526]

Maybe someone needs to make a post entitled "Restrict or remove posts crying about people choosing to enjoy PVE from the forums, making threads a nicer place to read"?

 

[Roybe]

OMG I'll actually boot my old PC just for that, thanks a lot, Stig!!!


PS
I wanna see how Jockey will manage to red hat his, there doesn't seem to have enough space in it
Also OSS (forgot the name), the guy with the very interesting quotes avatar

Mission accepted!

 

[EvE4evah]

Mission accepted!

https://i.imgur.com/gHHZI8s.jpg

Hmm more like, a toddler in his shoulder

 

[Roybe]

Hmm more like, a toddler in his shoulder

Jockey has a reason for his hat being there...Disney has the actual rights to the hump:

Spoiler

 

[Flatkat]

That's it, my New Year's resolution is to get good enough to join PvP club and the clobber the clubbers.
BTW Merry Xmas everyone [up]

 

[Jockey79]

Mission accepted!

https://i.imgur.com/gHHZI8s.jpg

Sweet, so using that

Thanks.

 

[StiTch]

True that. I can only hope Elite can grow over time and change the design slightly... A separate Iron Man server *Cough* with open only and increased payout might fix that.

I like the idea of it, but it's safe to say that such an expansive game would need to be careful with split servers were they to ever become available, FD-maintained or otherwise.

The only server we really need to make the difference is a simple Open only BGS. The difference in engagement would be over 9000.

At heart I am a PVE person...but I came to this game with the hopes of PVP that actually made sense and had an influence in the game...
I understand the PVP complaints and desires...and the only answer I have for those folks is to either embrace the game the way it is designed...or move on...because the design ain't changing. They might put some lipstick on the pig...but the pig will still oink.

Problem is PvE is hardly any better, save for being perceived as more friendly - which is true for any game. Many people are just scared of competing with other players.

The lack of engaging or dynamic PvE content is just terrifying. The "core" gameplay is just repetition ad nauseum, which is thoroughly disappointing for a game that prides itself on allowing the player to "blaze their own trail". I would like anything to be able to influence the game that has more substance than "which team can do poo runs in the background better".

The whiners have been the ones who demand that everyone else be THEIR gameplay and cannon fodder and whine about not enough targets

Ah yes, that well known argument that...never gets made.

Newsflash, son: I couldn't care less if you never even started ED up again. I have plenty of places to go pew. In fact the less you influence my game from the shadows the better

Fine, so where are the 'good riddance' posts from the PVP community when said seal clubbers leave? They are nowhere, it's all 'emergent greatness' and 'so sad you're leaving'. Here's the thing, a lot more obvious contradiction to the seal clubbers would go a long way, it would build bridges...

Theo,

I am not quite sure he meant we all have an ingrained hatred for seal clubbers, because that isn't true. I for one think it's a rather bland way to spend your time, but end of the day, it's any players right - what is simply missing is consequence.

Now in a nutshell, consequence is what PvPers fight for, and this extends to all players. Want to murder players in anarchy? It's basically a 1v1 duel. Working as intended. Want to murder noobs in starter space? Well...where is the incentive for other players to hunt him down after? PvE forces certainly aren't going to stop him. Where is the system that stops the murderer CLing? (here being one example of PvPers not giving each other preferential treatment. You CL, you cheat - end of).

Secondly while I appreciate the notion of unity, and not intentionally speaking for the PvP base or Algo here, why should we build bridges on other players' terms? Whether one or more or all of us disdain seal clubbers, it's a right of players to do so. I for one am not about to denounce player freedom in a misguided grab for approval from pigeons I've been playing chess with.

Want to start building bridges? Convince PvE players to discuss PvP content with more than just a kneejerk "NO GRIEFORING IN MY GAME PLOX".

 

[Mouse]

I like the idea of it, but it's safe to say that such an expansive game would need to be careful with split servers were they to ever become available, FD-maintained or otherwise.

The only server we really need to make the difference is a simple Open only BGS. The difference in engagement would be over 9000.

Does it hurt hitting your head so often against a brick wall? Can you seriously think that making the BGS open only would bring a flood of people into Open? Or instead make droves just give up on the game all together since Fdev would have caved into the whining minority who created their own problem... or make Traders (and those who would grind trading just to afford a "uber" combat ship in open) suddenly happy that they can trade away in Solo and PG and not affect the BGS and possibly uncover a new money making exploit since their trading no longer has any effect on the BGS.

Problem is PvE is hardly any better, save for being perceived as more friendly - which is true for any game. Many people are just scared of competing with other players.

For you maybe, but for others PVE is extremely more better, engaging, and fun. People are not "just scared of competing with other players" that is pure arrogance to think that. They are doing something you apparently have a hard concept of understanding.... having fun not PVPing. Enjoying the game without the interference of others. There is no fear or being scared.. that is your assumption since comprehension of the real reason fails you apparently.

The lack of engaging or dynamic PvE content is just terrifying. The "core" gameplay is just repetition ad nauseum, which is thoroughly disappointing for a game that prides itself on allowing the player to "blaze their own trail". I would like anything to be able to influence the game that has more substance than "which team can do poo runs in the background better".

You can blaze your own trail, what seems to get your goat is that others can as well and that their trail is NOT the same as yours or even close to it. For many the game's PVE element is engaging and or dynamic, but you don't see that because you look at the game from a different perspective. Want more substance... go fight the Thargoids.

Ah yes, that well known argument that...never gets made.

Newsflash, son: I couldn't care less if you never even started ED up again. I have plenty of places to go pew. In fact the less you influence my game from the shadows the better

If you believe that it never gets made then you've apparently not really browsed the forums that much. As for newsflashes, I'm probably older than you and neither "Son" or in the shadows. If you have plenty of places to go "pew pew" then go pew pew and leave the rest of us to non pew pew or pew pew elsewhere. You claim I'm trying to "influence" your game from the shadows yet you are the one advocating things be changed that would "influence" everyone's game to suite your and a narrow group of individuals gamestyle.

Theo,

I am not quite sure he meant we all have an ingrained hatred for seal clubbers, because that isn't true. I for one think it's a rather bland way to spend your time, but end of the day, it's any players right - what is simply missing is consequence.

Now in a nutshell, consequence is what PvPers fight for, and this extends to all players. Want to murder players in anarchy? It's basically a 1v1 duel. Working as intended. Want to murder noobs in starter space? Well...where is the incentive for other players to hunt him down after? PvE forces certainly aren't going to stop him. Where is the system that stops the murderer CLing? (here being one example of PvPers not giving each other preferential treatment. You CL, you cheat - end of).

Secondly while I appreciate the notion of unity, and not intentionally speaking for the PvP base or Algo here, why should we build bridges on other players' terms? Whether one or more or all of us disdain seal clubbers, it's a right of players to do so. I for one am not about to denounce player freedom in a misguided grab for approval from pigeons I've been playing chess with.

Want to start building bridges? Convince PvE players to discuss PvP content with more than just a kneejerk "NO GRIEFORING IN MY GAME PLOX".

You will find that many of us PVErs will discuss PVP content, not knee jerking or anything, but when many times no respect is in turn given to the PVErs from those PVPers talking... what do you want the PVErs to do? Just let others tear the game they love apart just to appease a minor style of play? That isn't a way to build bridges.

 

[Rampant]

Many people are just scared of competing with other players.

Simply untrue. Keep that as a mantra will only serve to illustrate to everyone else that you have an agenda.

Personally, I do not want to PvP because I find it both tedious and contrary to my desired gameplay. Nothing to do with being "scared" of or being "afraid" or possessing "fear", which is absolute hogwash.

You may well have an opinion that PvE is poor gameplay. Newsflash - a great swathe of players are doing just fine enjoying the PvE gameplay.
Many, many thousands of players are in that PvE category, returning regularly to enjoy the PvE environment, so they are not a small section of the overall player-base and they are not diminishing in number through boredom like some people would have us believe. Sure, it isn't "perfect", and could benefit from improvement, diversity and new tools, etc, but it is by no means boring. If it is boring for you, then please just speak for yourself and not state it as a fact that the PvE is somehow un-enjoyable for the majority of the community.

Remember, just keep saying "afraid" or "scared" to yourself and keep typing in on this forum if it makes you feel better about yourself, but rest-assured it isn't actually true.

Cheerz

Mark H

 

[StiTch]

Does it hurt hitting your head so often against a brick wall? Can you seriously think that making the BGS open only would bring a flood of people into Open?

Again, rather than digesting what's put in front of you, just yell "STOP TRYING TO DRAG ME INTO YOUR GAME!!1!". Always works, right?

I am not asking for a flood of people in Open. I am asking for Open play that has continuity and consequence.

You will find that many of us PVErs will discuss PVP content, not knee jerking or anything, but when many times no respect is in turn given to the PVErs from those PVPers talking...

Like the many times PvP proposals are yelled down because PvE players cannot comprehend the content existing simultaneously, or because a hoard of players yelling "NO GRIEFORING" joined the party?

what do you want the PVErs to do? Just let others tear the game they love apart just to appease a minor style of play? That isn't a way to build bridges.

Ah there is that legendary respect for PvPers you speak of. "I don't want you to enjoy the game because it'd mean me not enjoying mine". False sentiment to start with but hey, let's just worry about what lets your CMDR sleep at night

There is nothing stopping both PvE and PvP content existing comfortably within the game.

Simply untrue. Keep that as a mantra will only serve to illustrate to everyone else that you have an agenda.

It is true, and as I say - it is true of many games. It's also understandable; in a game that allows both PvE and PvP of a similar nature, the PvP side will almost always require more skill and understanding of the game.

I am not using it as some crutch with regards to discussing ED content; it was a simple offhand statement. Naturally though, whatever you can focus on dragging into the witch hunt instead of discussing anything relevant...