Modes Restrict or remove PvE from the game, making Open a nicer place

[Rampant]

If they cant leave the station, they cant do the CG, mission accomplished.

Nope. Mission not accomplished. Not at all.
P2P network Instancing.
PG.
Solo.
Block.

But this appears to be the reason that some people appear to want those pesky modes to be removed. Etc, etc, ...

For the sake of chain GSP for the LULZ.

Again, demonstrating the uglier side of human nature.

Would that be a reasonable analysis?

 

[Rampant]

I fly a weaponless d rated aspx, and I am wanted 90% of the time, to avoid ANY npc all I need is submit to intrediction and boost in straight line, thats it, thats the challenge.

This assuming I am not winning the intrediction which is never. We dont need npcs in this game, they are useless and only used for farming.

Kerp it D rated, put some weapons on it and fight back. You never know - it might even prove to be fun.
I'd assume it would be better fun than one-shotting shieldless traders outside stations. You know, for the sake of immersion and roleplay?

Or is that just my own view?

 

[Robert Maynard]

(Perhaps Frontier could add some feature where we can tick a box in our settings for harder NPCs?)

With luck an opt-in means of engaging with more capable NPCs in more capable ships / loadouts will be coming when ATR are introduced to deal with prolific CMDR criminality.

 

[Jockey79]

*chuckles* it's nice to see modesty. Really though, sense has to be applied somewhere - I mean CoD doesn't code the AI to start shooting their guns backwards because the player has the reaction speeds of a tortoise in hibernation.

Ultimately it only highlights that the ranking system needs the change, not the lobotomisation of NPCs. I say this with zero disrespect towards you, but if you cannot do anything but turret shooty, you shouldn't be "Elite". I am surprised FD haven't reviewed the ranking system given the number of complaints from all sides; I wonder if they're holding onto the primitive original Elite system out of sheer stubbornness, or whether they actually perceive it to be engaging.

Absolutely agree. The ranking system should reflect pilot skill and the high ranking NPCs should have skill and be hard.

No disrespect taken, I can be a good gimbals scrub
I just use turrets on my trade ships to farm because I'm too lazy to put the effort in killing NPCs that die to turrets while I'm drinking tea eating cucumber sandwiches.

Why ruin a perfectly good afternoon tea with combat when your ship and SLF can do the work for you and you can relax and eye up some finger biscuits?

 

[Goose4291]

Clearly a very bad analogy.
I don't have to tell you that those real ships were irreplaceable and in very limited supply. And that therefore the destruction of them either into or out of port was equally "meaningful" and possessing of purposeful effect. (I have studied the Battle of the Atlantic - as perhaps you have yourself?)
In direct contrast, the ships being targeted/destroyed *leaving* CG stations are immediately replaceable and therefore their destruction has zero effect on the CG and is absolutely and utterly "meaningless". Doing so has no purpose. In the game, at least.

The horse has bolted -> Quick, lock the barn door.

This is why I dont like using analogies, because we get into the minutiae of the analogy rather than the concept itself.

All I'm saying is that to a genuine blockader, there is also a genuine motive to attacking those that beat the blockade. (Remember as well, there was a point where death in any shape or form in this game wasnt as meaningless as it is now).

Like powerplay for example. In the glory days of it being in open, you used to get players from opposing powers camping out in each others capital to intercept the fortifiers on their return legs.

Sidebar: As an ex submariner and a 'spotter' I do enjoy my battle of the atlantic history. How do you find Clay Blairs works on the subject?

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Kerp it D rated, put some weapons on it and fight back. You never know - it might even prove to be fun.
I'd assume it would be better fun than one-shotting shieldless traders outside stations. You know, for the sake of immersion and roleplay?

Or is that just my own view?

Why would I need to handicap myself on purpose, there are many shield-less types who do that for me

I also dont find it immersive interacting with a spinning on its axis NPC who spew some repetitive text, no, the only interaction I have in this game is with other people, its up to them how this interaction is going to go, its up to me to provide it to them.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I also dont find it immersive interacting with a spinning on its axis NPC who spew some repetitive text, no, the only interaction I have in this game is with other people, its up to them how this interaction is going to go, its up to me to provide it to them.

Only those that choose to play in the same game mode, on the same platform. Thankfully, for those that don't particularly enjoy the offered interaction, two other game modes are available.

 

[Jockey79]

... its up to me to provide it to them.

Actually it is up to Frontier to provide interesting game play for everybody.
You're just along for the ride, like the rest of us.

It's a great game design though, one lets you play the game how you want, while letting me play it how I want and we don't have to suffer each other.

 

[Roybe]

Yep. That and as I've said earlier the silly idea that you can be a king admiral, fighting for the feds against the imps one minute and then for the imps against the feds the next with absolutely no comeback

I dunno...it worked out real well for our group! LOL!

 

[Han Zulu]

Yep. That and as I've said earlier the silly idea that you can be a king admiral, fighting for the feds against the imps one minute and then for the imps against the feds the next with absolutely no comeback

I'm not sure I see why that is wrong. It's basically the same as if a soldier decided to switch sides, commit treason against his own country, or perhaps it was a sleeper spy or something. I mean, this we can read about in history that has happened in real life, so why can't a character in the game switch side?

 

[EvE4evah]

I'm not sure I see why that is wrong. It's basically the same as if a soldier decided to switch sides, commit treason against his own country, or perhaps it was a sleeper spy or something. I mean, this we can read about in history that has happened in real life, so why can't a character in the game switch side?

With no penalty?

 

[Goose4291]

I'm not sure I see why that is wrong. It's basically the same as if a soldier decided to switch sides, commit treason against his own country, or perhaps it was a sleeper spy or something. I mean, this we can read about in history that has happened in real life, so why can't a character in the game switch side?

Because of course in your real world analogy, the Congressional army would have welcomed benedict arnold back after he ground out the loyalist rank system

 

[StiTch]

With luck an opt-in means of engaging with more capable NPCs in more capable ships / loadouts will be coming when ATR are introduced to deal with prolific CMDR criminality.

Good idea, but why not go the full hog?

ED feature request: optional NPC hardpoints. Disable this option, and all NPCs in your vicinity have their weapons removed! Doesn't take their FSD interdictors away so you can still feel like you're in danger, with none of the actual danger.

I'm not sure I see why that is wrong. It's basically the same as if a soldier decided to switch sides, commit treason against his own country, or perhaps it was a sleeper spy or something. I mean, this we can read about in history that has happened in real life, so why can't a character in the game switch side?

Apart from the fact RL is a poor indicator of how a game should turn out, that's a terrible analogy, sorry mate lol.

I dare say if I defected from the British army to give their secrets and my weapons to the Russian army, and then betrayed them to give my secrets and weapons to the Americans...yeah, how long do you think before I walk through someone's door and they just smack me over the head with a crowbar, take my secrets and dump me somewhere?

And if I remained alive, how do ya think the British army would take it if I defected from a few forces and tried to walk in their front door again with an application form?

Spying, or a one time defection to your new cause? Sure. Give me the chances to commit espionage at great risk and I will back the initiative 10000 times over. Leaving a side to join the enemy every 3 weeks? *chuckles*

 

[Rampant]

This is why I dont like using analogies, because we get into the minutiae of the analogy rather than the concept itself.

All I'm saying is that to a genuine blockader, there is also a genuine motive to attacking those that beat the blockade. (Remember as well, there was a point where death in any shape or form in this game wasnt as meaningless as it is now).

Like powerplay for example. In the glory days of it being in open, you used to get players from opposing powers camping out in each others capital to intercept the fortifiers on their return legs.

Sidebar: As an ex submariner and a 'spotter' I do enjoy my battle of the atlantic history. How do you find Clay Blairs works on the subject?

I *knew* you were a fish-head and suspected you must've had Faslane connections...

I haven't read Clay Blair - I have a preconception that it would be a little sensationalistic and "for the masses", but perhaps that isn't fair. I'm light blue, so my overall interest is from an air perspective. I have a good 10 minute presentation on the BotA and wrote an article for the Leuchars Airshow magazine back in 2004. Sure sucked to be a merchant mariner when Donitz started using wolf-pack tactics. One of the best true stories I know is that of John Cruickshank VC. History and training tells us never to re-fly the target, and those that have ignored that training have normally always suffered consequences as a result. Cruickshank was a bally hero for doing it, though...

Anyway, I totally disagree that there is a "genuine" (in game) motive for attacking ships on the way *out* of a station in this game - it serves absolutely no purpose - and so far as I can tell is solely for the lulz, accompanied with stamping of feet while saying "genuine reason" or "valid". Clearly, it isn't. Not in this game the way that the mechanics are set up. Not in any "reasonable" way.

And lets not even discuss the perversion of secure systems, where, clearly, a group of GSPs hanging around just outside the No Fire Zone breaks the intent and reasonable-ness of the game. Clearly, stations *would* do something to clear the area for it's life-blood. That they currently don't is clearly an oversight. Personally I would call it an exploit - GSPs shouldn't really be allowed to hang around the station - but at present they can, but that doesn't make it right, in any reasonable way. A reasonable person would agree with this, but I'm expecting a backlash of "valid" with nonsense reasons, which to me is entirely unreasonable.

Cheerz

Mark H

 

[Rampant]

Why would I need to handicap myself on purpose, there are many shield-less types who do that for me

I also dont find it immersive interacting with a spinning on its axis NPC who spew some repetitive text, no, the only interaction I have in this game is with other people, its up to them how this interaction is going to go, its up to me to provide it to them.

I'll answer your question with a question - why on earth would you go to great lengths to make your ship overpowered which then just makes the game dull? NPCs don't do the kebab move any more, so your point is moot.

When you say that "up to them how this interaction is going to go", what is it you mean by that? Do you mean that if a player decides to fly shield-less you would then choose to just one-shot them with your pimped FdL instead of ignoring them as unworthy? Or do you mean that you ignore the unworthy, like you ignore NPCs, and concentrate solely on the worthwhile targets?

I'm curious, indulge me.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Good idea, but why not go the full hog?

ED feature request: optional NPC hardpoints. Disable this option, and all NPCs in your vicinity have their weapons removed! Doesn't take their FSD interdictors away so you can still feel like you're in danger, with none of the actual danger.

..... because that would be silly!

 

[Goose4291]

I *knew* you were a fish-head and suspected you must've had Faslane connections...

I haven't read Clay Blair - I have a preconception that it would be a little sensationalistic and "for the masses", but perhaps that isn't fair. I'm light blue, so my overall interest is from an air perspective. I have a good 10 minute presentation on the BotA and wrote an article for the Leuchars Airshow magazine back in 2004. Sure sucked to be a merchant mariner when Donitz started using wolf-pack tactics. One of the best true stories I know is that of John Cruickshank VC. History and training tells us never to re-fly the target, and those that have ignored that training have normally always suffered consequences as a result. Cruickshank was a bally hero for doing it, though...

Anyway, I totally disagree that there is a "genuine" (in game) motive for attacking ships on the way *out* of a station in this game - it serves absolutely no purpose - and so far as I can tell is solely for the lulz, accompanied with stamping of feet while saying "genuine reason" or "valid". Clearly, it isn't. Not in this game the way that the mechanics are set up. Not in any "reasonable" way.

And lets not even discuss the perversion of secure systems, where, clearly, a group of GSPs hanging around just outside the No Fire Zone breaks the intent and reasonable-ness of the game. Clearly, stations *would* do something to clear the area for it's life-blood. That they currently don't is clearly an oversight. Personally I would call it an exploit - GSPs shouldn't really be allowed to hang around the station - but at present they can, but that doesn't make it right, in any reasonable way. A reasonable person would agree with this, but I'm expecting a backlash of "valid" with nonsense reasons, which to me is entirely unreasonable.

Cheerz

Mark H

Blairs quite good and very comprehensive. 'The Hunters' and 'The Hunted', rocking in at 4,000+ pages for me are excellent almost day by day accounts of the battle from start to finish and are quite dry and far from sensationalistic from what I recall (its been a good five years since I read both consecutively). I find his mathematical analysis of how the battle was unwinnable for the germans from day one, even during 'the happy times', particularly as it challenges the accepted historical norm. You might struggle though in places as his chock head analysis isnt the best, being a harry deeper himself, albeit a colonial one .

Anyway, back on topic. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can assure you, as someone who took part in these blockades (for PP purposes) they were in my experience done for the legitimate reasons I've listed.

That said, I agree, that stations security and all the associated stuff needs fixing and balancing. I actually have championed it for quite some time, and if you look in my started threads on this forum one of those was a quite comprehensive logic flow chart to try to address some of the issues.

Back off topic, damn shame when they got rid of the nimbats by the way, even if their sonar teams were gash

 

[ALGOMATIC]

I'll answer your question with a question - why on earth would you go to great lengths to make your ship overpowered which then just makes the game dull? NPCs don't do the kebab move any more, so your point is moot.

When you say that "up to them how this interaction is going to go", what is it you mean by that? Do you mean that if a player decides to fly shield-less you would then choose to just one-shot them with your pimped FdL instead of ignoring them as unworthy? Or do you mean that you ignore the unworthy, like you ignore NPCs, and concentrate solely on the worthwhile targets?

I'm curious, indulge me.

I will tell you. I like to make yt videos, whatever is a good content for an internet video, I will be involved in that content.

I will let you figure what is a good content.

Just realized I said the word "content" many times.

 

[Jockey79]

I like to make yt videos, whatever is a good content for an internet video, I will be involved in that content.

Don't see any guides or tutorials on your channel.
Even Rinzler has tutorials on his channel.

Guides going from starting new in a Sidewinder, to making your way to being a fully engineered combat god are always great content and fun to watch.
Talk through builds, reasons why you pick one module over another, explain the tactical choices and why you make them.
How to make the most out of each ship on the journey from newbie to pro.

Lots of content to be filmed, all with your own twist on the game, your own style and flair.

 

[Roybe]

Only those that choose to play in the same game mode, on the same platform. Thankfully, for those that don't particularly enjoy the offered interaction, two other game modes are available.

Actually 6 other modes when you take into account platforms!