Retreat tried several times in vain - your ideas?

Hi there, I would like to start an exchange of ideas as I've found it still impossible to bring a MF into retreat. I tried two systems in the last 20 days or so, i.e. after the last game update introducing the BGS fixes. These very-low traffic systems have both seven MF in place (all non-player of course) and a population of 2 resp. 3 mio. The controlling faction in both systems had around 45% influence, the others between 4 and 14%, the retreat candidates already around 3%.

My strategy was to do around 40 INF+ missions each day divided between all other MF but the controlling MF and the retreat candidate. The controlling MF always got some bounty vouchers (2 or 3 each day) from the usual pirate interdictions while doing the missions and occasionally some exploration data (max. 5 systems each day).

The course of things (influence of the MF to be retreated) was as follows:

System A: 2.8% => 1.1% => system left alone for one day => 8.1%(!) with triggering a conflict => conflict won for the other MF => 3.8% => 3.4% => 3.1% => 2.8% => 2.4% => back to 3.1% => left alone another day out of frustration => 2.2% (sic!)

System B: 4.2% => 3.8% => 3.3% => 3.0% => 2.8% => 3.0% => 3.2% => 2.8% => 2.1% => 2.8% => 2.2% => 3.2% => 3.3% => abandoned

I'm very sure that significant influence from other CMDRs can be excluded as it's a remote part of the bubble and the underlying pattern in both cases looks identically. As matters stand there are inexplicable and unpredictable BGS fluctuations that render it impossible to hold a MF constantly below the 2.5% treshold until retreat is completed.

If my initial strategical considerations are wrong, please let me know. As well I would very much like to hear your own current experiences with retreats - both successful and failed.

Looking forward to a hopefully fruitful discussion! :)
 
My faction have been engaged in trying to force MF into retreat several times over the last few weeks.

The first few times we tried same approach as you have been in working to increase the influence of the other factions with similar results to yours. Found it very inefficient as if they have low influence to begin with, the other MF will mostly gain influence from other MF with high influence while only taking a marginal amount from the target MF. Also had the same inexplicable rise in influence for target MF one day after they go in to retreat. Actually started to suspect that it might be deliberately hardcoded that way as some sort of safeguard to prevent MF from retreating too easily.

On the last attempt we just murdered every ship of theirs we could find in the system and found that far more efficient for getting them in to and keeping them in retreat. They went from 5% on day 1 to 1% on day 2 then stayed on 1% for duration of retreat and left the system the other day. Sometimes you just have to get your hands dirty :)
 
Well, I opened two threads about retreat last weeks. I've paid attentions to all your opinions, but now I can say with certainty that AFTER 3.3 RETREAT DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE!!! I'm talking about a system with 170.000 population, a small system. Someone said that in a big system it works because of less influence flutuations, don't know......
I tried to kick out of that system FOUR TIMES two different factions. Always, during retreat, a day from 2% to 5%...6%..... without apparent reason and continuing a big pressing against!!!! Me and my group are not new in BGS........ 5 years are not few! Before 3.3 we expanded in System after a npc faction retreat with no problems. Putting it in lockdown before, for example. And now? What about lockdown and civil unrest???? Do they work??? Uhmmmmm.... not so sure.
 
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I'm talking about a system with 170.000 population, a small system.
Ten successful retreats in the Colonia region in the last two weeks. All of them from systems with populations comparable to or smaller than your 170k system. Maybe it is easier with a larger population - but it's not intrinsically impossible with a small one.

What's the daily traffic level in your system? How much of that is not attributable to your players' activity?
 
Well The System is not of players interest IMO, little human traffic except us! Risen is due to IA IMO..... Probably in Colonia NPC are less "competitive" than in bubble?

Anyway, I abandoned retreat and found an alternative way to expand in the System I want!!!! Bye bye retreat....... [big grin]
 
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O. K., so I'm not alone with that issue. Good to know I'm probably not too stupid. This murder attempt doesn't sound very appealing to me but as a last resort, why not. I'll try the VIP passenger mission fail way first before eventually rising my notoriety.
 
O. K., so I'm not alone with that issue. Good to know I'm probably not too stupid. This murder attempt doesn't sound very appealing to me but as a last resort, why not. I'll try the VIP passenger mission fail way first before eventually rising my notoriety.
How does the VIP passenger mission fail thing work?
 
Can you account for all passing traffic? And I mean all of them. Just one mission or action can affect things. Plus its easier to gain influence when you are small.

From my experience the only way to retreat someone is to push them down each day every day and ensure they stay low.
 
Of course you can never exclude any randomlies for 100% sure. But if several CMDRs and even groups of CMDRs have tried hard in different systems with identical outcome all of the time, the pictures becomes clear IMO.

@Aunty Sledge: Failing VIP passenger missions is - apart from killing the targeted MFs vessels - the only way to directly decrease a MFs system influence. Goes like this: Take a ship with some first class passenger cabins and try to get a INF+++++ passenger mission from the MF to harm. It has to be a mission with a passenger mentioned by name (i.e. not a "45 tourists seeking transport" bulk passenger mission), e.g. something like "Famous explorer Jane Doe wants to visit xyz geysirs and take photos". If the mission description says something like "passenger is sensible and will react very anxious on hull damage" it's a deal and you accept the mission. Get out of the station, turn off shields and scratch your back at the station's outer structures. Your hull integrity will go down and you'll keep doing so until you receice the "incoming mission critical message" that will tell you that the passenger is now completely unhappy and wants to leave the ship at the nearest station. Turn on shields, return inside, passenger will leave your ship automatically, abandon mission manually in the left hand menu and the mission giving MF has lost 5 INF points. Of course you'll loose reputation and eventually you'll need to re-boost your reputation with this MF in another star system. So it can be tedious and time-consuming, but it definitely works.
 
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..... from my experience this thing is impossible after 3.3... !!!!
Does the faction you want retreated hold any station, surface base or any other asset? If they do, then they are toast. If they don't, then its harder because you have to pull away INF either by failing missions or doing missions for as many other factions as possible.
 
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Does the faction you want retreated hold any station, surface base or any other asset? If they do, then they are toast.
If the target MF hold assets it is easier to find their vessels at those locations to kill, but it is still possible if they don't hold assets, the MF we just made retreat had no assets, its just harder to find them as a faction on low % influence in the system spawns very few ships. In this case we found that easiest way to find targets was to keep low waking in and out of the nav beacon until either the nav beacon or in supercruise spawns what you are after, the chance of there being at least 1 target ship at nav beacon each time is roughly 1 in 5 (but need to leave it for about minute intervals between each time jump out and back in to nav beacon so it refreshes the spawns). Once they are in retreat status also worth checking USS as they can often spawn retreat convoy or distress signal USS for the faction where their ships will be present to kill.

You also don't actually need to murder that many to drop their influence. When we did it in a 35M population system, 15 murders on Day 1 was enough to send them from 5% to 1%, then we followed that with on average about 5 more murders per day for duration of the retreat which kept them on 1% until they left the system.
 
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If the target MF hold assets it is easier to find their vessels at those locations to kill, but it is still possible if they don't hold assets, the MF we just made retreat had no assets, its just harder to find them as a faction on low % influence in the system spawns very few ships. In this case we found that easiest way to find targets was to keep low waking in and out of the nav beacon until either the nav beacon or in supercruise spawns what you are after, the chance of there being at least 1 target ship at nav beacon each time is roughly 1 in 5 (but need to leave it for about minute intervals between each time jump out and back in to nav beacon so it refreshes the spawns). Once they are in retreat status also worth checking USS as they can often spawn retreat convoy or distress signal USS for the faction where their ships will be present to kill.

You also don't actually need to murder that many to drop their influence. When we did it in a 35M population system, 15 murders on Day 1 was enough to send them from 5% to 1%, then we followed that with on average about 5 more murders per day for duration of the retreat which kept them on 1% until they left the system.
If you kill ships of that faction and they are not in charge (in a zone controlled by the controller), does that also affect the INF of the controlling faction? I've always operated on the assumption that any kill simply smacks the controlling faction since you are killing in their space.

I wonder too what % drop in inf is split between victim faction and controlling faction...
 
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If you kill ships of that faction and they are not in charge (in a zone controlled by the controller), does that also affect the INF of the controlling faction? I've always operated on the assumption that any kill simply smacks the controlling faction since you are killing in their space.

I wonder too what % drop in inf is split between victim faction and controlling faction...
Didn't seem to have any effect on the controlling faction in our experience. On the day that we dropped the target MF from 5% to 1% the controlling faction gained 2% and then remained steady on all the following days. We were being careful to only do hit and run attacks on target MF ships while we were in fast ships that could then easily evade the police response each time though as hurting the police would definitely drop the controlling factions influence.
 
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Didn't seem to have any effect on the controlling faction in our experience. On the day that we dropped the target MF from 5% to 1% the controlling faction gained 2% and then remained steady on all the following days. We were being careful to only do hit and run attacks on target MF ships while we were in fast ships that could then easily evade the police response each time though as hurting the police would definitely drop the controlling factions influence.
Nice. I'll have to try that out at some point as it will make life a lot easier in certain circumstances.
 
It's only the factions ships you are destroying that will lose system influence...your reputation will take a hit too, however the system itself could go into civil unrest or lockdown depending on numbers in your killing spree (how easy that is to do I haven't tested in this version of the BGS...used to be a fairly common thing in previous versions, but others probably have.)
 
Well, I'd like to see retreat decided on the battlefield, in the CZ's. If one side is defeated severely enough, an irreversible retreat is triggered.
 
The retreat mechanics works normally. Keeping down the influence of the faction you want to make retreat is a challenge after 3.3. As the low influence baseline means limited transactions lead to significant increase of influence making a faction retreat as a sole commander in a system with traffic might prove not to be realistic.
 
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