I don't want the Barebone experience, I want at least the same which NMS has. Fdev won't do a bare bone experiance because that will be another stick for the haters to use. They've taken enough flack (deserved) for releasing Odyssey too early, they're not going to give people another target.
Returning to EDO, but Please Frontier...
- Thread starter MoodBear
- Start date
NMS VR experience is quite good, but absolutelly not something I would like to see in Elite. I want to use hotas for flying and keyboard+mouse onfoot, not fiddle with VR controllers on top of hotas.
But you are correct about giving another target. That's why they should have just left the possibility to disable (through cfg edit for example) "official VR mode" aka virtual screen, so those who really want it, could try to play onfoot parts on full VR with normal keyboard+mouse controls. We know it is possible because onfoot vanitycam allready works in full VR.
This is what I think too. Performance at release was dreadful, and 8 updates in it's little better. I would agree with another post that said FDev needs to fix rendering optimization and squash game-breaking bugs first, then prioritize getting VR fully done for Odyssey.
Sadly, I don't think we'll see any hint of that until after 2022 or maybe late 2023, if ever. Which sucks because I won't buy another expansion until they have it.
Problem is, you're never going to get what you want, they no longer have a VR guy in the office and none of their other products do VR so it's barebones (already highly unlikely) or nowt (most probable forever).
Hiring a VR developer (let me just check the omens) is about 1% probable if they wanted to get JWE2 working on the quest or some company contracts them to do a VR racing game and throws in a VR dev to sweeten the deal - but even there they won't need to do on foot so it'll just be the cockpit version they use for ED.
Tho' thinking about it JWE2 would be sweet in VR if you could walk about as one of the customers
maybe sneak into their forums and start a we want VR whisper campaign...Craith
Volunteer Moderator
I am fine with barebone, would actually prefer it over roomscale with controllers.
Elite is a game I don't play for short burst, but usually a few hours at a time, getting in and out of my chair multiple times could get messy when I wear my VR headset - and it would break immersion as much as the current virtual flatscreen mode.
I also hardly play any Elite anymore, because how jarring the current VR situation is - not performance-wise, I am ok-ish with the performance now, but the flatscreen on foot is really killing my enthusiasm. I know I could ignore the whole Odyssey expansion and play as I did before, but I like the new stuff, and I want to try the new things. And having it just so slightly out of reach is making it even harder. I won't stop playing the game, I just play it (much) less, everytime I land on a station or planet I get this feeling of sadness, of not being the target audience anymore.
Implementing a barebone version of VR is certainly doable with very limited effort - most of it would be placing the UI and the crosshair, ADS might also require some work, but not more than headtracking, which already works (bugs aside, but it would be the same bugs).
The stereoscopic rendering already works, it is just a pain to activate the very limited VR mode on foot, and you can't interact since it is using the camera mode, and can't aim because there is no crosshair and the camera is above the helmet (we used to be able to set it inside the head and have it move down while crouched, but that was "fixed" - I am sure not on purpose to annoy the VR players, it was just part of the new external camera mechanics, but we lost another part of the game that day)
Barebone will not satisfy everyone, some people would like Halflife Alyx level implementation, some something in between - but many VR players have no problem with on foot nausea (which in my experience is often caused by badly setup VR systems, wrong IPD and high frame losses, and bad implementation - forced animations, which Elite does not have). I can play on foot already in VR with the "camera hack" (setting the external camera just above the head and fixing it there) - I just can't play on foot in VR (no UI, no interaction, magcutter works but tricky to aim)
I fear that VR is getting phased out of the game, which is a pity. Elite was one of the first real VR games (when most others were on casual mobile game level), it was the game I told every VR friend of mine to try, seeing Elite in VR got 2 friends to get into VR themselves. Can't recommend it in good conscience anymore, even though it still beats the VR experience of SW Squadrons by a lot. VR support won't stop directly, but new features won't support it - watching your carrier jump will most likely be connected to the carrier premises, for example. Just my fears for now, future will tell.
On-foot VR not at launch - with the problems Odyssey had at launch I was not happy, but I understood it. Priorities, and all that, there was enough on their plate.
Now the game is stable enough IMO that we could maybe ask @sallymorganmoore to try to get VR back to the attention of the Devs, this game was Made for VR after all, Designed from the ground up to support VR ...
(Sorry Sally, but it has been 6 months - VR supporters were (mostly) patient, but they have been some of the most enthusiastic supporters of the game and are left behind)
Elite is a game I don't play for short burst, but usually a few hours at a time, getting in and out of my chair multiple times could get messy when I wear my VR headset - and it would break immersion as much as the current virtual flatscreen mode.
I also hardly play any Elite anymore, because how jarring the current VR situation is - not performance-wise, I am ok-ish with the performance now, but the flatscreen on foot is really killing my enthusiasm. I know I could ignore the whole Odyssey expansion and play as I did before, but I like the new stuff, and I want to try the new things. And having it just so slightly out of reach is making it even harder. I won't stop playing the game, I just play it (much) less, everytime I land on a station or planet I get this feeling of sadness, of not being the target audience anymore.
Implementing a barebone version of VR is certainly doable with very limited effort - most of it would be placing the UI and the crosshair, ADS might also require some work, but not more than headtracking, which already works (bugs aside, but it would be the same bugs).
The stereoscopic rendering already works, it is just a pain to activate the very limited VR mode on foot, and you can't interact since it is using the camera mode, and can't aim because there is no crosshair and the camera is above the helmet (we used to be able to set it inside the head and have it move down while crouched, but that was "fixed" - I am sure not on purpose to annoy the VR players, it was just part of the new external camera mechanics, but we lost another part of the game that day)
Barebone will not satisfy everyone, some people would like Halflife Alyx level implementation, some something in between - but many VR players have no problem with on foot nausea (which in my experience is often caused by badly setup VR systems, wrong IPD and high frame losses, and bad implementation - forced animations, which Elite does not have). I can play on foot already in VR with the "camera hack" (setting the external camera just above the head and fixing it there) - I just can't play on foot in VR (no UI, no interaction, magcutter works but tricky to aim)
I fear that VR is getting phased out of the game, which is a pity. Elite was one of the first real VR games (when most others were on casual mobile game level), it was the game I told every VR friend of mine to try, seeing Elite in VR got 2 friends to get into VR themselves. Can't recommend it in good conscience anymore, even though it still beats the VR experience of SW Squadrons by a lot. VR support won't stop directly, but new features won't support it - watching your carrier jump will most likely be connected to the carrier premises, for example. Just my fears for now, future will tell.
On-foot VR not at launch - with the problems Odyssey had at launch I was not happy, but I understood it. Priorities, and all that, there was enough on their plate.
Now the game is stable enough IMO that we could maybe ask @sallymorganmoore to try to get VR back to the attention of the Devs, this game was Made for VR after all, Designed from the ground up to support VR ...
(Sorry Sally, but it has been 6 months - VR supporters were (mostly) patient, but they have been some of the most enthusiastic supporters of the game and are left behind)
Yeah - I had a five month break over VR. I am now playing again, I just don't go anywhere that is not VR enabled. I would be happy as a first step if the monitor went full screen or even an option to increase the window size (maximize) so I could just take the headset off and play flat screen. Ideally I would like sitting VR on foot. What has surprised me is that other than half an hour on the on foot tutorial I have felt no interest in on foot. I think that is because I grew to like ED as a VR game and it irks to play content not in VR. What worries me is that if on foot is not VR then on foot on ship is going to be no vr and that is going to be even more horrible to handle.
sallymorganmoore
Senior Community Manager : Elite Dangerous
I know, I know and I totally do hear you on this. Not at all frustrated by you raising it - you're entitled to speak up if course.
Thing is we have currently console players on one side feeling left behind, Odyssey players on the other feeling disappointment, and VR down the middle also feeling left behind, all at once.
We want to get to you all, but we can't just flip flop the team from one priority to the other, that's not how development works efficiently at all and would burn the entire department out - we need to focus the work in the most optimal order for ALL OF YOU.
As we've said before, we absolutely are interested in fixing and making current VR experiences refined - so issues are still very much collected and talked through.
I know that's not much to give you right now but hoping it's something until we get to a point where we can breathe between expectations and priorities.
Big o7.
Nobody blames you directly, mind you; we are more than aware that you are a Community Manager, not a game developer. The game isn't your responsibility to fix yourself.
I love how you make forumites feel they are heard - and it's great you're focused on fixing and refining current VR experiences, but... is there any actual talk on the legs portion of the game being bought into VR, no matter how tenuous? I mean; I'm patient, waited two years for the orrery (which btw could do with some lovin' - check out Star Citizens orrery which is front and centre in the ships mapping display - seriously gorgeous and very functional), so just the intimation that it's on the devs radar at least would go a long way to assuaging our concerns.
Even a basic headlook with maybe an out of game ini switch and disclaimer it's not supported by fdev would be perfect.
Apologies for being a pain and asking for more - I just can't help myself (first world problems, lol).
I just want them to fix some of the bugs in VR, like when the display try’s to pulls my eyes out (the screens does something odd and I have to force quit the game), the lighting still isn’t right (why does the shadows/light source move around as if I’m the light source?) And off course the performance issues.
i’ve noticed the frames are much better but there’s still more work to do.
i’ve noticed the frames are much better but there’s still more work to do.
Craith
Volunteer Moderator
Hi Sally, thanks a lot for the answer, I can imagine assigning resources is tough, and I totally understand that consoles are a higher priority right now than VR players. Never expected anything different, they also have a tough time. I don't mind waiting, as long as I know it is not in vain - joking, of course I want it all, I want it all, and I want it know! Sorry Freddie! -
If FDev works on a basic on foot implementation after console launch and EDO/EDH unification, that's fine for me [iquote] for certain definitions of fine - not gonna quote Freddie again[/iquote]
I'd just like to know, to keep the hope alive.
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This, all day. it's already in-game, and it's only VR players that'd notice (and a toggle between... the grey and this? I mean, each to their own so make it a choice). But the key point is, it's just camera - no clever controls. I already swap to kbm from HOTAS even in VR so I'd never even notice beyond being able to look around and enjoying the process... but Sally's point is key; they DO need to fix EDO as a game before worrying about things like VR.
We had to beg for a projected screen to even be considered in VR. So it's not so much the lack of VR improvements (my hopes aren't high when FD have other upcoming games to move developers onto), it's that originally VR players were not even considered as to how EDO would relegate them.
Once FD get EDO running on PC adequately, then on console, my opinion is sadly that'll be it, they won't work on VR improvements like features outside of bug fixes, because there's no commercial incentive for them to do so.
Once FD get EDO running on PC adequately, then on console, my opinion is sadly that'll be it, they won't work on VR improvements like features outside of bug fixes, because there's no commercial incentive for them to do so.
Hey - that's the closest thing to a half-sign of possible future committment we've had so far, so nothing to thumb one's nose at by any means!
It is not the waiting - we can wait; Fixes, optimisations, and finishing features and completing the set of them are paramount, and prerequisite for a good experience on both VR and consoles anyway; And sufferers on consoles come in greater numbers than us; We know and understand, and we are not devoid of patience.
What makes it insufferable is the complete and utter impression that any waiting is in vain, because our concern has no place in the queue at all, and will never get one, being deprecated rather than put on hold. All communication has been rather slippery in nature, seemingly seeking out every possible phrasing that can deftly avoid making anything that could unescapably look like committing, whilst still stringing the the listener along with wishes and hopes (EDIT: ...an all too familiar pattern).
For the record, Sally: This is an effect that appeared with update 7, and remains in 8 -- before that, the shadows in question were as relatively stable as they get.
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NoVR - What_The_X_F_Dev
Banned
There was a threadnaught a couple of months ago asking Frontier to state that VR is "on the list", albeit at it's rightful place "at the back of the queue"...
...we'd still like such a promise...As VR players we recognise that EDO still has many hills to climb, and many different players to please. However, we’d like to take this moment to emphasise our passion for EDVR, and our desire for VR Legs to be supported in the game.
We would ask FDev to roadmap or otherwise clarify the plans for VR’s future. If roadmapped we would of course expect a later waypoint on the route, to ensure that Frontier can focus on fixing Odyssey's more pressing issues, for everyone's benefit.To this end we have been coralling VR bug reports into one thread, linked here: Odyssey VR specific bug reports
Player experimentation with the VR vanity camera has given us a glimpse of functioning VR on foot, and the gameplay itself feels like it would only be elevated by full VR support. As such we would love to see a firm commitment from Frontier to VR.
The second most upvoted suggestion thread on record is asking Frontier for backdoor access to no frills VR. (Incidentally, the third most upvoted suggestion of all time asks for something similar). Given the lower resourcing requirements of these suggestions, and the anticipated lengthy wait for a proper VR implementation to the standards the team may wish to deliver, we hope that something of this nature could be provided in the meantime.
If any fellow Cmdrs feel the same, please let us know in the replies below.
Resources:
Simply right click the avatar you want to use, select "Save mage as..."
Save the file to a folder on your computer.
Go to the top right of the forum page, click your name
Sover the mouse over the thumbnail of your current avatar (if you have one)
The word edit pops up under your avatar, click it
In the file - open dialogue box go to where you saved the avatar, select the image and open the file
The file now uploads onto the server, and while it can take a day or so to appear, it will become your new avatar
VR bug report list compiled by Arioch: Odyssey VR specific bug reports - please contribute!
...If Frontier could bring themselves to commit to a(nother) "roadmap" basically stating what we all expect, that the priorities are performance, bugfixes, EDO console launch, VR improvements, we'd mostly be mollified. Even more so if there were some specifics... ~"After console release we'll work on X Y & Z VR improvements".
We know better than to ask for something now, but we're guaranteed to be disgruntled by a statement such as "VR? Not on current plans" as that sounds like corpo-speak for "No, Not happening, ever" - can you try and get us such a pledge?
I have ONLY ever played ED in VR. Since Odyssey dropped without proper VR support, I just stopped playing all together. I am only one person, I get that. But I simply will not play ED again until Odyssey gets proper VR.
You are not alone.
And it's still broken. I haven't had my eyes ripped out in some time now ether. With this new patch (not an update to me), it seems the frame rate is better but also I play around with my CPU cores, so I think we have a win-win with some improvements. Thanks.
However, I've noted more glitches. Not like "it's a glitch in The Matrix," but where the screen just flicks or tic. It's not a showstopper, "huh, that's new."
I haven't tested out the patch in an SRV yet, so I'm hoping that's better/faster too.
If the patches continue to show up then I'll continue to support and play the game.